PhD Chemistry and Law School

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androstan
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby androstan » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:49 pm

JazzOne wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:While I won't make a comment about schools, except to say apply EVERYWHERE in the upper tier of cali, I will say that the Chemical IP field is REALLY in demand and understaffed, and is a very lucrative profession.

I really don't know where people get this idea. IP jobs are pretty tough to get ITE.

bigkahuna2020 wrote:I think people on this forum know very little about academia and how little it pays.

The OP, even with his qualification, probably has 2-4 years of postdoc work paying around 45-55k, then MAYBE a non tenure track position for a year or two paying the same, then 4-5 years later will be making 60-75k.

And this is working hours that would make most lawyers blush.

If you think the hours of an academic would make lawyers blush, then you have no idea how hard lawyers work.


Science research is not poli sci research. I know literally no science researcher who does not work past 8 most days of the week and at least one weekend day.

Yeah and? Do you really doubt whether lawyers work similar hours? Perhaps I have a biased perspective because my experience is biglaw, but I can assure you that the hiring partner who I'm working for this summer would not blush at those hours. In fact, that's about the minimum requirement. A lot of lawyers work even more.

Plus, when I worked in a research lab, the PI didn't come in until 10 or 10:30. He rarely worked weekends. He published regularly and had a solid family life. Lab work is less stressful and more leisurely than biglaw, in my experience. Although, I'm sure the politics of academia are horrible.


My graduate advisor worked most weekends, at *least* Saturday, and was usually there late into the evening.

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JazzOne
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby JazzOne » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:51 pm

androstan wrote:My graduate advisor worked most weekends, at *least* Saturday, and was usually there late into the evening.

Yeah, I'm not arguing that scientists are lazy. My PI worked very hard. I'm just saying that lawyers work notoriously long hours, and bigkahuna really exaggerated the case by saying lawyers would "blush" at a scientist's work schedule. That's just not so.

And, as I mentioned above, the pace of work in a lab is so much more relaxed than the pace of work at a law firm. Working 10 hours in a biglaw office feels a lot worse than working 10 hours in a university lab (IMO).

09042014
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby 09042014 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:59 pm

Every PhD candidate in engineer I know works long, but gingerly hours. They are always in the lab, but they aren't always that productive. It's fairly low stress, and they can work whenever they want.

They aren't skipping their kids Christening because they have emergency work.

The ones that over work, usually love it.

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s254w
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby s254w » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:04 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Every PhD candidate in engineer I know works long, but gingerly hours. They are always in the lab, but they aren't always that productive. It's fairly low stress, and they can work whenever they want.

They aren't skipping their kids Christening because they have emergency work.

The ones that over work, usually love it.


I have to agree with this. One of the up sides of working in a lab is choosing your own hours. Of course, sometimes you might have treatments that dictate data collection every two hours for 16 hours. Then you're just fucked. But other than that, yeah.

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ResolutePear
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:07 pm

Go write books until HYS offers you a spot.

09042014
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Joined: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:47 pm

Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby 09042014 » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:07 pm

Downside of hard science PhD. Having to do 4 years of postdoc just to get a shot at a tenure track job.

Engineering PhD at least has industry as a fall back.

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ResolutePear
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Downside of hard science PhD. Having to do 4 years of postdoc just to get a shot at a tenure track job.

Engineering PhD at least has industry as a fall back.


From what I've seen.. most people in hard science are in it for the long haul one way or another:

If you want to take a professional route: Medicine or something along those lines... 4 years + whatever your residency is.

If you want to take an academia route: PhD.. 4 years (Obviously it's usually more depending on your dissertation.) + Research till tenure-tracked, at which point you'll research + publish or perish.

Man, I made law school seem not so bad... provided you stay employed. My bad, TLS.

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drdolittle
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Re: PhD Chemistry and Law School

Postby drdolittle » Thu Dec 02, 2010 10:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Every PhD candidate in engineer I know works long, but gingerly hours. They are always in the lab, but they aren't always that productive. It's fairly low stress, and they can work whenever they want.

They aren't skipping their kids Christening because they have emergency work.

The ones that over work, usually love it.


This ^. And really, most academics produce little true value so their salary understandably will and should reflect that. Grad students and postdocs get paid what they do because their work is worth very little. If it ends up being worth something, they'll get to a tenured prof position (or a nice industry position maybe) around their early to late 30s and will be handsomely compensated, at least in the US, considering their worth in a capitalist system. A tenured university prof with some external grant support typically makes $150K (roughly, base maybe around $100K) at a run of the mill research university in the US. These are not the super stars I'm talking about at Harvard & Stanford et al. Most if not all universities offer help with buying a home, provide generous retirement & health benefits, etc. And there are no bosses or clients to serve, just a bunch of lab minions to manage, grants and papers to write. And if you lose your funding, you can stick around to teach or, if you have tenure, just hang out and do virtually nothing until you retire. It's a great job if you can get it! And the career path can be a lot of fun anyway. The education is basically free, and may set you up to potentially land said university positions. If not, you can freely consider other careers, like the law...




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