Arab Americans...

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313D313
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Arab Americans...

Postby 313D313 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:34 pm

Are Arab Americans under represented in the top law schools around the country? Anybody have an idea. I know we do not receive a URM boost but a friend of mine who is currently attending a law school in DC was telling me yesterday that an Arab American with good numbers receives a boost because there are not that many Arab Americans with really good numbers (relatively speaking).

Would love to hear the TLS wisdom on this.

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Pleasye
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby Pleasye » Fri Nov 19, 2010 8:43 pm

313D313 wrote:Are Arab Americans under represented in the top law schools around the country? Anybody have an idea. I know we do not receive a URM boost but a friend of mine who is currently attending a law school in DC was telling me yesterday that an Arab American with good numbers receives a boost because there are not that many Arab Americans with really good numbers (relatively speaking).

Would love to hear the TLS wisdom on this.

Arab Americans are not considered URM and therefore do not receive a boost. Also, wrong forum.

313D313
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby 313D313 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 9:53 pm

LSpleaseee wrote:
313D313 wrote:Are Arab Americans under represented in the top law schools around the country? Anybody have an idea. I know we do not receive a URM boost but a friend of mine who is currently attending a law school in DC was telling me yesterday that an Arab American with good numbers receives a boost because there are not that many Arab Americans with really good numbers (relatively speaking).

Would love to hear the TLS wisdom on this.

Arab Americans are not considered URM and therefore do not receive a boost. Also, wrong forum.


I know we do not receive a URM boost. I am interested to hear from any Arab Americans that felt like their ethnicity played a role in the admissions process. I live in Michigan and we probably have the largest arab population in the United States and i do not know of very many people that attended or currently attend a top law school. This makes me question wether we are under represented at the top law schools or not. Not claiming we should receive a URM boost but i wish there were some data on this.

HowdyYall
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby HowdyYall » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:07 pm

313D313 wrote:
LSpleaseee wrote:
313D313 wrote:Are Arab Americans under represented in the top law schools around the country? Anybody have an idea. I know we do not receive a URM boost but a friend of mine who is currently attending a law school in DC was telling me yesterday that an Arab American with good numbers receives a boost because there are not that many Arab Americans with really good numbers (relatively speaking).

Would love to hear the TLS wisdom on this.

Arab Americans are not considered URM and therefore do not receive a boost. Also, wrong forum.


I know we do not receive a URM boost. I am interested to hear from any Arab Americans that felt like their ethnicity played a role in the admissions process. I live in Michigan and we probably have the largest arab population in the United States and i do not know of very many people that attended or currently attend a top law school. This makes me question wether we are under represented at the top law schools or not. Not claiming we should receive a URM boost but i wish there were some data on this.


yeah i think people make to big of a deal about the URM boost and dont realize that when some schools say they value diversity in their student body, they value diversity in their student body (i.e people other than AA, MA, PR, NA)

firemed
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby firemed » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:16 pm

313D313 wrote:
LSpleaseee wrote:
313D313 wrote:Are Arab Americans under represented in the top law schools around the country? Anybody have an idea. I know we do not receive a URM boost but a friend of mine who is currently attending a law school in DC was telling me yesterday that an Arab American with good numbers receives a boost because there are not that many Arab Americans with really good numbers (relatively speaking).

Would love to hear the TLS wisdom on this.

Arab Americans are not considered URM and therefore do not receive a boost. Also, wrong forum.


I know we do not receive a URM boost. I am interested to hear from any Arab Americans that felt like their ethnicity played a role in the admissions process. I live in Michigan and we probably have the largest arab population in the United States and i do not know of very many people that attended or currently attend a top law school. This makes me question wether we are under represented at the top law schools or not. Not claiming we should receive a URM boost but i wish there were some data on this.


First off, you not knowing someone who went don't mean shit. I don't personally know anyone of my ethnicity who went to a T14, and have only met 1 person of any ethnicity who went to a T14 in person.

As you stated, you aren't URM, because as you may have noticed, you mark "white" on race on your apps. You are a minority, of course, but not underrepresented according to the definition presently used by law schools.

If you want more data, perhaps a national organization representing your ethnicity would have some you could use?

ETA: as pointed out above you may get a small soft boost, however.

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Pleasye
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby Pleasye » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:42 pm

HowdyYall wrote:yeah i think people make to big of a deal about the URM boost and dont realize that when some schools say they value diversity in their student body, they value diversity in their student body (i.e people other than AA, MA, PR, NA)

The thing is that people of Middle Eastern descent check "white" and are therefore over-represented in law schools. Of course if you are Arab American you should write a diversity statement to show what you can bring to the school and adcomms will consider this when looking for diversity but it's not going to give you any type of measurable "boost".

Sorry OP I didn't realize you were looking for anecdotal evidence from actual Arab Americans. I misunderstood your question but I hope my input helps a little.

313D313
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby 313D313 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:46 pm

firemedicprelaw wrote:
313D313 wrote:
LSpleaseee wrote:
313D313 wrote:Are Arab Americans under represented in the top law schools around the country? Anybody have an idea. I know we do not receive a URM boost but a friend of mine who is currently attending a law school in DC was telling me yesterday that an Arab American with good numbers receives a boost because there are not that many Arab Americans with really good numbers (relatively speaking).

Would love to hear the TLS wisdom on this.

Arab Americans are not considered URM and therefore do not receive a boost. Also, wrong forum.


I know we do not receive a URM boost. I am interested to hear from any Arab Americans that felt like their ethnicity played a role in the admissions process. I live in Michigan and we probably have the largest arab population in the United States and i do not know of very many people that attended or currently attend a top law school. This makes me question wether we are under represented at the top law schools or not. Not claiming we should receive a URM boost but i wish there were some data on this.


First off, you not knowing someone who went don't mean shit. I don't personally know anyone of my ethnicity who went to a T14, and have only met 1 person of any ethnicity who went to a T14 in person.

As you stated, you aren't URM, because as you may have noticed, you mark "white" on race on your apps. You are a minority, of course, but not underrepresented according to the definition presently used by law schools.

If you want more data, perhaps a national organization representing your ethnicity would have some you could use?

ETA: as pointed out above you may get a small soft boost, however.


I understand that me not knowing many people at a top law school is an unrepresentative sample. However i still take it into consideration because i know alot of people not only in Michigan but in many other states. More than you can imagine. As a community my people network alot and we stay very connected with each other.

313D313
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby 313D313 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:49 pm

LSpleaseee wrote:
HowdyYall wrote:yeah i think people make to big of a deal about the URM boost and dont realize that when some schools say they value diversity in their student body, they value diversity in their student body (i.e people other than AA, MA, PR, NA)

The thing is that people of Middle Eastern descent check "white" and are therefore over-represented in law schools. Of course if you are Arab American you should write a diversity statement to show what you can bring to the school and adcomms will consider this when looking for diversity but it's not going to give you any type of measurable "boost".

Sorry OP I didn't realize you were looking for anecdotal evidence from actual Arab Americans. I misunderstood your question but I hope my input helps a little.


Yes we may be over represented because of that. But that is from a statistical perspective. When the schools put together their classes however, i wonder how many actual "Arab Americans" there are and wether it plays any part in that.

Thanks for your input

whymeohgodno
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:54 pm

You're grasping for straws here. It won't help you much if any...

justadude55
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby justadude55 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:59 pm

i don't think being Arab is considered a race. You can be Middle-Eastern, so Israelis would be grouped in the same pool too along with Christians from the Middle-East. A lot of non-Muslims, particularly Jews, had to flee Iran in the 1970s so I think a lot of the 2nd generation may actually indicate that Middle Easteners are not at all under represented.

313D313
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby 313D313 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:20 pm

justadude55 wrote:i don't think being Arab is considered a race. You can be Middle-Eastern, so Israelis would be grouped in the same pool too along with Christians from the Middle-East. A lot of non-Muslims, particularly Jews, had to flee Iran in the 1970s so I think a lot of the 2nd generation may actually indicate that Middle Easteners are not at all under represented.


Yea we check the box that says white and then middle eastern. Btw Christians from the middle east fall under the "Arab American" category. And Jews are definetly represented well in the top law schools across the nation. My friend is from Israel and we actaully had a discussion about this. She felt that her mentioning being jewish could be detrimental because she said there are so many jews in law schools.

313D313
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby 313D313 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:22 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:You're grasping for straws here. It won't help you much if any...


LOL i am not expecting it at all but i would love if it did happen. Ill take any advantage i can get.

justadude55
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby justadude55 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:25 pm

.

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MartianManhunter
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby MartianManhunter » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:46 pm

You've acknowledged that you recognize you don't get the URM boost so if you're just asking whether or not there are a lot of arab-americans in law school I will tell you that, anecdotally, I don't think so. There aren't that many at my school, anyway.

justadude55
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby justadude55 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:48 pm

MartianManhunter wrote:You've acknowledged that you recognize you don't get the URM boost so if you're just asking whether or not there are a lot of arab-americans in law school I will tell you that, anecdotally, I don't think so. There aren't that many at my school, anyway.

duh because there's no arabs on mars.

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magicman554
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby magicman554 » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:55 pm

justadude55 wrote:i don't think being Arab is considered a race. You can be Middle-Eastern, so Israelis would be grouped in the same pool too along with Christians from the Middle-East. A lot of non-Muslims, particularly Jews, had to flee Iran in the 1970s so I think a lot of the 2nd generation may actually indicate that Middle Easteners are not at all under represented.



Facepalm.


Hint: You're conflating religion and race. Arab does not equal non-Jewish, non-Christian, etc. That's like saying that Mexican's are not URMs because most Mexicans are Catholics, and Catholics are very well represented in the T14.

HeavenWood
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby HeavenWood » Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:56 pm

magicman554 wrote:
justadude55 wrote:i don't think being Arab is considered a race. You can be Middle-Eastern, so Israelis would be grouped in the same pool too along with Christians from the Middle-East. A lot of non-Muslims, particularly Jews, had to flee Iran in the 1970s so I think a lot of the 2nd generation may actually indicate that Middle Easteners are not at all under represented.



Facepalm.


Hint: You're conflating religion and race. Arab does not equal non-Jewish, non-Christian, etc. That's like saying that Mexican's are not URMs because most Mexicans are Catholics, and Catholics are very well represented in the T14.


Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion, but it's somewhat faux pas to refer to it as such in this country.

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magicman554
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby magicman554 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:00 am

HeavenWood wrote:
magicman554 wrote:
justadude55 wrote:i don't think being Arab is considered a race. You can be Middle-Eastern, so Israelis would be grouped in the same pool too along with Christians from the Middle-East. A lot of non-Muslims, particularly Jews, had to flee Iran in the 1970s so I think a lot of the 2nd generation may actually indicate that Middle Easteners are not at all under represented.



Facepalm.


Hint: You're conflating religion and race. Arab does not equal non-Jewish, non-Christian, etc. That's like saying that Mexican's are not URMs because most Mexicans are Catholics, and Catholics are very well represented in the T14.


Judaism is both an ethnicity and a religion, but it's somewhat faux pas to refer to it as such in this country.



According to some, yes. But when I see black "Jews" and white "Jews," when "Jews" were traditionally Semitic, the ethnicity part seems much more debatable.

HeavenWood
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:02 am

magicman554 wrote:According to some, yes. But when I see black "Jews" and white "Jews," when "Jews" were traditionally Semitic, the ethnicity part seems much more debatable.


Most Jewish ethnic groups have strong genetic ties to the Middle East. Ashkenazi, Sephardic, and Mizrahi Jews are more closely related to each other than their respective host populations.

But we're derailing the thread. To answer your question, OP, you may get a small boost for being Arab, and you may not. On the one hand, you do contribute to the diversity of the student body. On the other hand, your race is reported as "white," not making the school appear any more diverse in terms of face value statistics.

justadude55
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby justadude55 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:04 am

that said, ashkenazi jews aren't very much like sephardic jews. a lot of the traditions are different as are the family roles.
Last edited by justadude55 on Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

HeavenWood
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:07 am

.
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justadude55
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby justadude55 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:13 am

xxxxxxxxx
Last edited by justadude55 on Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

HeavenWood
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby HeavenWood » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:14 am

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justadude55
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby justadude55 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:15 am

xxxxxx
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firemed
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Re: Arab Americans...

Postby firemed » Sat Nov 20, 2010 3:50 pm

313D313 wrote:
I understand that me not knowing many people at a top law school is an unrepresentative sample. However i still take it into consideration because i know alot of people not only in Michigan but in many other states. More than you can imagine. As a community my people network alot and we stay very connected with each other.


Yeah... my "people" network a lot and stay connected too. And we are totally ORM. Saying "more than you can imagine" is silly. You have no idea how much I can imagine.

I understand you would want to take a non-representative sample into account because it is your own. All I was saying is that there may very well be national organizations that have hard data you could use. I would look into that if I were you to get a definitive answer.




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