DreamShake wrote: MysticalWheel wrote:
Notice that the "guy" who said that is considered the greatest leader this nation has ever had. Also, Lincoln did not start the Civil War, so check your history again. The quote is in partial direct contradiction to the quote you provided, so check your logic while you're checking your history too.
"Greatest X" arguments are generally subjective, and "greatest leader" is no different. In any case, a choice at the barrel of a gun is no choice at all--and Lincoln's inauguration speech amounted to pointing a barrel at the South's economic head.
Einstein=Nationalism is infantile (read: small-minded and shortsighted); we're part of something larger. We are all humans, we all live on earth, etc.
Lincoln=You should be proud of whence you come and live such a life that it may also be proud of you.
Einsteinian response=Sounds good. Work on making the world a better place. Make humanity proud that you're a part of it.
The Einsteinian quote involves a much broader perspective than you seem to recognize. Lincoln's quote has no apparent context or discussion of scope, so it can be subsumed into the Einsteinian perspective. Your quote only contradicts the Einstein quote if you assume that the "place in which he lives" is equated with "his country."
Thanks, and ta-ta. I have no desire to continue this discussion.
It is generally accepted, based off the standard definitions of “greatest,” that Abraham Lincoln is
the greatest leader that the United States has witnessed. Whether it is ultimately subjective or not does not defeat the fact that he is considered such, so your statement seems more like a deflection due to a refusal to confront the core of my statement.
To repeat, Lincoln did not start the Civil War. The South seceded, starting with South Carolina, and were the first to launch a physical attack. Your interpretation of Lincoln’s election starting the Civil War is laughable, but cute. .
Furthermore, my quotation was from a political leader, someone who is considered the greatest political leader by arguably the greatest nation on the Earth. Your quote is from a renowned physicist. Given that the discussion is in regards to patriotism, the author of my quote is more pertinent, and hence, carries more clout in the matter.
Your evaluation of Einstein’s quote seems to betray an overly broad and biased skew against the very conception of patriotism/nationalism. His quote essentially proclaims nationalism as worthless, but Lincoln contradicts that by offering praise to those who show nationalistic/ patriotic inclinations. Therefore, Lincoln’s quote is not compatible with Einstein’s; it cannot be “subsumed” harmoniously.
In a pathetic attempt to escape a losing argument, you finally write that Lincoln’s quote only contradicts the Einstein quote if you assume that the "place in which he lives" is equated with "his country." “ It is perfectly reasonable to equate place of residence with country, so your deflection fails here.
I have gone through your rebuttal and see absolutely nothing that can redeem your argument. If you don’t have anything worthwhile to say, perhaps it is wiser to simply not respond. Thanks…and “ta-ta.” If you "have no desire to continue this discussion," then I accept your concession.