Should I do a why UVA?

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$$$$$$
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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby $$$$$$ » Sun Nov 21, 2010 4:59 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
ahduth wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:More than any other school in the T14, and probably the country, admissions at UVA are based upon truly WANTING to attend the school. There is a very special culture and atmosphere that is present in every aspect of the school, and I would be willing to bet is not present at pretty much any other law school in the nation. This atmosphere and mentality is passed down from class to class because the students that come to school here truly wanted to and have bought into the "UVA culture."


This makes it sound like a cult. I thought schools were looking for diversity?


More than that, is UVA full of people that second their own posts? It's harder to get douchier than that.



he didn't second his own post

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jawsthegreat
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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby jawsthegreat » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:05 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
ahduth wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:More than any other school in the T14, and probably the country, admissions at UVA are based upon truly WANTING to attend the school. There is a very special culture and atmosphere that is present in every aspect of the school, and I would be willing to bet is not present at pretty much any other law school in the nation. This atmosphere and mentality is passed down from class to class because the students that come to school here truly wanted to and have bought into the "UVA culture."


This makes it sound like a cult. I thought schools were looking for diversity?


More than that, is UVA full of people that second their own posts? It's harder to get douchier than that.


Fail.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby mst » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:11 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:More than any other school in the T14, and probably the country, admissions at UVA are based upon truly WANTING to attend the school. There is a very special culture and atmosphere that is present in every aspect of the school, and I would be willing to bet is not present at pretty much any other law school in the nation. This atmosphere and mentality is passed down from class to class because the students that come to school here truly wanted to and have bought into the "UVA culture." If you don't want to attend UVA and are just applying because it is in the T14, that's fine, but they aren't going to accept you. Now if you truly want to come here, and have a compelling story to tell and can articulate it in an essay, then by all means go ahead. However, if you can't the only way to truly show your commitment is by pulling the trigger on ED. There are over 7,000 applications each year, for only 220 out of state spots in the class, if you don't differentiate yourself somehow, you are going to get WL/Rejected. Just simple facts.


If these are the "Simple Facts" UVA needs to change its application process so that it doesn't waste the time and money of many qualified applicants. I'm not asking UVA to be a school it's not. I'm asking UVA to come to terms with what it is. There are two schools in the t14 who skate by with niche application processes (UVA & NW). At least northwestern's makes sense (well at least more sense to me), and they make it very clear that work experience & interviews are a major factor in the admissions process. UVA simply seduces applicants, who for every good reason should believe they will probably be accepted due to their numbers being above the figures for the school, and they don't even make a case for "Why X" essays, or the over-importance of ED at the school. Penn and Michigan clearly outline the choices and opportunities for additional essays, why can't UVA?

This thread was just one guy getting a reading on the importance of why UVA, and then commenting on it that it really makes no sense in his opinion. And that's it. And it was a perfectly logical opinion with data to back it up. Not necessarily right, not necessarily wrong. Just a guy that thinks it's very shitty of a school to waste a bunch of qualified applicants time just to waitlist them because they're pretty sure the applicants will end up going to other schools given the choice between the two, even though that applications put forth are generally stronger than those they know they can lock in. Again, this is just an opinion.

The fact that a bunch of students who got into t14 schools due to these processes (which again, my strong OPINION is that you were admitted to protect their yield percentage and not because your demonstration of commitment to the school was just super-fantastic) are arguing against kind of brings a question of bias into play. God forbid you're forced to come to terms with the fact that people are getting screwed over for no good reason (again, my opinion) due to your schools admissions process, which benefits YOU, the reverse splitters who were able to raise their yield percentage. If you truly think it was about who "wanted it the most" because "that's just UVA's culture," take a look at the other couple thousand people who would die to get into UVA or any t14 for that matter, but don't have the stats. You just happened to be the people with highest stats that they could lock in for their acceptance rate & Yield percentage.

Now please, stop derailing (or continuing) this thread. If you hate people that complain about admissions processes wasting applicants time, start a new one.

And just as a note, he didn't mean "Diversity" between people who love UVA and people who hate it. That's kind of what we're trying to tell you. Just because you didn't ED to UVA or write a Why UVA doesn't necessarily say a damn thing about your commitment to the school...

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby ahduth » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:12 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
ahduth wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:More than any other school in the T14, and probably the country, admissions at UVA are based upon truly WANTING to attend the school. There is a very special culture and atmosphere that is present in every aspect of the school, and I would be willing to bet is not present at pretty much any other law school in the nation. This atmosphere and mentality is passed down from class to class because the students that come to school here truly wanted to and have bought into the "UVA culture."


This makes it sound like a cult. I thought schools were looking for diversity?


Diversity meaning some people like the school and some don't? That doesn't really make sense.


I didn't precisely mean diversity, I suppose. I'm actually thinking it makes sense to go to school with some people who are true "gunners," and really don't care about what school they go to, who their classmates are, what area of law they go into, where they end up working... because they're like that. There's plenty of people out there who operate that way. I can see not wanting to go to school with those people, but I'd think they're extremely common in the legal world.

But yeah, the diversity comment was a bit extreme. I'm just thinking between ED and the in-state thing... UVA might be narrowing the type of student they enroll a bit too heavily for my taste. Suppose I just self-selected myself out. :D

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby ahduth » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:15 pm

mst wrote:And just as a note, he didn't mean "Diversity" between people who love UVA and people who hate it. That's kind of what we're trying to tell you. Just because you didn't ED to UVA or write a Why UVA doesn't necessarily say a damn thing about your commitment to the school...


Well, I kind of did, in a way. No one who "hates" it is going to go there anyhow. But the legal world is full of epic assholes, and I don't have a problem going to school with some of them if it's going to make me a better lawyer. And they can be fully committed to kicking ass at school without having written a "why UVA." They're just the type of people who don't care about that fluffy stuff.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby IAFG » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:31 pm

mst wrote:If these are the "Simple Facts" UVA needs to change its application process so that it doesn't waste the time and money of many qualified applicants. I'm not asking UVA to be a school it's not. I'm asking UVA to come to terms with what it is. There are two schools in the t14 who skate by with niche application processes (UVA & NW). At least northwestern's makes sense (well at least more sense to me), and they make it very clear that work experience & interviews are a major factor in the admissions process. UVA simply seduces applicants, who for every good reason should believe they will probably be accepted due to their numbers being above the figures for the school, and they don't even make a case for "Why X" essays, or the over-importance of ED at the school. Penn and Michigan clearly outline the choices and opportunities for additional essays, why can't UVA?

This thread was just one guy getting a reading on the importance of why UVA, and then commenting on it that it really makes no sense in his opinion. And that's it. And it was a perfectly logical opinion with data to back it up. Not necessarily right, not necessarily wrong. Just a guy that thinks it's very shitty of a school to waste a bunch of qualified applicants time just to waitlist them because they're pretty sure the applicants will end up going to other schools given the choice between the two, even though that applications put forth are generally stronger than those they know they can lock in. Again, this is just an opinion.

The fact that a bunch of students who got into t14 schools due to these processes (which again, my strong OPINION is that you were admitted to protect their yield percentage and not because your demonstration of commitment to the school was just super-fantastic) are arguing against kind of brings a question of bias into play. God forbid you're forced to come to terms with the fact that people are getting screwed over for no good reason (again, my opinion) due to your schools admissions process, which benefits YOU, the reverse splitters who were able to raise their yield percentage. If you truly think it was about who "wanted it the most" because "that's just UVA's culture," take a look at the other couple thousand people who would die to get into UVA or any t14 for that matter, but don't have the stats. You just happened to be the people with highest stats that they could lock in for their acceptance rate & Yield percentage.

Now please, stop derailing (or continuing) this thread. If you hate people that complain about admissions processes wasting applicants time, start a new one.

And just as a note, he didn't mean "Diversity" between people who love UVA and people who hate it. That's kind of what we're trying to tell you. Just because you didn't ED to UVA or write a Why UVA doesn't necessarily say a damn thing about your commitment to the school...

1) not saying explicitly you plan to reject most people who pay your app fee isn't unique to UVA. That is certainly the way Harvard acts. and lots of schools, late in the game, start imploring people to apply with and without fee waivers to boost their total numbers of apps. also, UVA's dead of admissions has talked about his view of ED in interviews, so its not exactly a secret.

2) not writing a why X or EDing says a lot to me about your commitment to a school.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby mst » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:43 pm

1)It is when you are wait listing people who pay your app fee, but have better numbers and applications than the people you are admitting in many, many cases.
2)Good for you. On a flip note, it says to me that the applicant doesn't want to commit to 200,000 dollars in loans if they don't have to. Which only says that they are probably smart people, especially in this legal market. As for Why UVA, it simply says they didn't know about a non-existent quasi-requirement that really isn't posted anywhere directly tied to the application, or that they aren't going to stoop to the level of picking random policy centers and journal titles off of a website because they believe (with good reason) that it just embarrasses themselves and the school, who all know what is happening.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby northwood » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:47 pm

IF UVA had a lot of deferrals from last cycle, then their class is even more limited for this cycle. I would suppose that UVA wanted to accept as many people as possible that they KNEW would go there, and thus limit the total amount of acceptances ( hence their preferrability for an ED application). IF its true they offered money to people last year to wait an extra cycle, then there is even less money available to offer super high canidates. Im sure they would want to prevent last year from re-occuring this year, and thus emphasized the ED applicant.

Isnt the point of ED basically telling the school that you desperately want them, and will be happy to pay full sticker, even though you know there is a chance at being offered money somewhere else? If you're not willing to turn money down from another school ( for whatever reasons) then dont apply ED. Let the dice roll with a RD application, and see how it all works out for you.

This is just my 2 cents, and since im not the type of person who would be okay turning down scholarship money, i wouldnt apply anywhere ED.

As for the notions about the LSAT, GPA and softs: I think admissions people do pay attention to them, especially the closer to the top you are aiming. Since we dont know much ( or anything) about which softs are held in higher esteem, we are left to guess and try to make ourselves feel better about our own application.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby IAFG » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:47 pm

mst wrote:1)It is when you are wait listing people who pay your app fee, but have better numbers and applications than the people you are admitting in many, many cases.
2)Good for you. On a flip note, it says to me that the applicant doesn't want to commit to 200,000 dollars in loans if they don't have to. Which only says that they are probably smart people, especially in this legal market. As for Why UVA, it simply says they didn't know about a non-existent quasi-requirement that really isn't posted anywhere directly tied to the application, or that they aren't going to stoop to the level of picking random policy centers and journal titles off of a website because they believe (with good reason) that it just embarrasses themselves and the school, who all know what is happening.

1) i cannot believe you sincerely think your numbers entitle you to things
2) people who are sincere in their interest research the school enough to know what programs make them special. people who are blindly prestige-jockeying, or baldly scholarship-hoarding, should be forced to at least fake it.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:59 pm

IAFG wrote:
mst wrote:1)It is when you are wait listing people who pay your app fee, but have better numbers and applications than the people you are admitting in many, many cases.
2)Good for you. On a flip note, it says to me that the applicant doesn't want to commit to 200,000 dollars in loans if they don't have to. Which only says that they are probably smart people, especially in this legal market. As for Why UVA, it simply says they didn't know about a non-existent quasi-requirement that really isn't posted anywhere directly tied to the application, or that they aren't going to stoop to the level of picking random policy centers and journal titles off of a website because they believe (with good reason) that it just embarrasses themselves and the school, who all know what is happening.

1) i cannot believe you sincerely think your numbers entitle you to things
2) people who are sincere in their interest research the school enough to know what programs make them special. people who are blindly prestige-jockeying, or baldly scholarship-hoarding, should be forced to at least fake it.


Is faking sincerity better than honestly being insincere?

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby IAFG » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:06 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
IAFG wrote:
mst wrote:1)It is when you are wait listing people who pay your app fee, but have better numbers and applications than the people you are admitting in many, many cases.
2)Good for you. On a flip note, it says to me that the applicant doesn't want to commit to 200,000 dollars in loans if they don't have to. Which only says that they are probably smart people, especially in this legal market. As for Why UVA, it simply says they didn't know about a non-existent quasi-requirement that really isn't posted anywhere directly tied to the application, or that they aren't going to stoop to the level of picking random policy centers and journal titles off of a website because they believe (with good reason) that it just embarrasses themselves and the school, who all know what is happening.

1) i cannot believe you sincerely think your numbers entitle you to things
2) people who are sincere in their interest research the school enough to know what programs make them special. people who are blindly prestige-jockeying, or baldly scholarship-hoarding, should be forced to at least fake it.

Is faking sincerity better than honestly being insincere?

as has been noted already in this thread, not being willing to conjure up some fake enthusiasm is a major life skills handicap. if you really, truly can't, you're not going to get MVP (unless you can get sincerely worked up about one of them).

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby rayiner » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:10 pm

I feel sorry for mst's boyfriend if she can't even fake enthusiasm long enough to write a "Why UVA?" essay.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby ahduth » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:13 pm

IAFG wrote:as has been noted already in this thread, not being willing to conjure up some fake enthusiasm is a major life skills handicap. if you really, truly can't, you're not going to get MVP (unless you can get sincerely worked up about one of them).


What if this inability/unwillingness is due to having a great deal of genuine enthusiasm?

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:14 pm

ahduth wrote:
IAFG wrote:as has been noted already in this thread, not being willing to conjure up some fake enthusiasm is a major life skills handicap. if you really, truly can't, you're not going to get MVP (unless you can get sincerely worked up about one of them).


What if this inability/unwillingness is due to having a great deal of genuine enthusiasm?


Great deal of enthusiasm for honesty trumps all? lolol

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby $$$$$$ » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:28 pm

DUDE, HOLY SHIT, UVA does NOT have a Niche application process, it is simply DIFFERENT, just like EVERY FUCKING LAW SCHOOL. They don't "seduce" (weird fucking word to use by the way, what, you get turned on by UVA?) people to apply, people apply because its an awesome school, in a great location, with great weather and a great quality of life. There are plenty of resources to see that JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOOD NUMBERS IT DOESN'T MEAN YOU WILL OR DESERVE TO GET IN. Jesus fucking christ. They have 9000 applications for 350 spots, OF COURSE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GET REJECTED OR WAITLISTED. You understand that nothing in life is meant to be coming to you? Many people at good schools are on law review and getting shut out at OCI, nothing is guaranteed. Your numbers are not even that good, you will be lucky if you get into CCN and lucky if you get any money at MVP. Also, if you ED at Virginia, you can still get scholly money, I know many that have money that applied ED. You suck at logic, you suck at math, and you will probably suck at law school. Now go make me a fucking sandwich.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby Saltqjibo » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:52 pm

So this thread was pretty much useless in helping me decide if I should do a why UVA. I have a 3.76 and a 175. Someone said the class was full already? I don't know what the hell is going on

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby AreJay711 » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:02 pm

Saltqjibo wrote:So this thread was pretty much useless in helping me decide if I should do a why UVA. I have a 3.76 and a 175. Someone said the class was full already? I don't know what the hell is going on


Yes write a why UVA

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby jawsthegreat » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:18 pm

mst wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:More than any other school in the T14, and probably the country, admissions at UVA are based upon truly WANTING to attend the school. There is a very special culture and atmosphere that is present in every aspect of the school, and I would be willing to bet is not present at pretty much any other law school in the nation. This atmosphere and mentality is passed down from class to class because the students that come to school here truly wanted to and have bought into the "UVA culture." If you don't want to attend UVA and are just applying because it is in the T14, that's fine, but they aren't going to accept you. Now if you truly want to come here, and have a compelling story to tell and can articulate it in an essay, then by all means go ahead. However, if you can't the only way to truly show your commitment is by pulling the trigger on ED. There are over 7,000 applications each year, for only 220 out of state spots in the class, if you don't differentiate yourself somehow, you are going to get WL/Rejected. Just simple facts.


If these are the "Simple Facts" UVA needs to change its application process so that it doesn't waste the time and money of many qualified applicants. I'm not asking UVA to be a school it's not. I'm asking UVA to come to terms with what it is. There are two schools in the t14 who skate by with niche application processes (UVA & NW). At least northwestern's makes sense (well at least more sense to me), and they make it very clear that work experience & interviews are a major factor in the admissions process. UVA simply seduces applicants, who for every good reason should believe they will probably be accepted due to their numbers being above the figures for the school, and they don't even make a case for "Why X" essays, or the over-importance of ED at the school. Penn and Michigan clearly outline the choices and opportunities for additional essays, why can't UVA?

This thread was just one guy getting a reading on the importance of why UVA, and then commenting on it that it really makes no sense in his opinion. And that's it. And it was a perfectly logical opinion with data to back it up. Not necessarily right, not necessarily wrong. Just a guy that thinks it's very shitty of a school to waste a bunch of qualified applicants time just to waitlist them because they're pretty sure the applicants will end up going to other schools given the choice between the two, even though that applications put forth are generally stronger than those they know they can lock in. Again, this is just an opinion.

The fact that a bunch of students who got into t14 schools due to these processes (which again, my strong OPINION is that you were admitted to protect their yield percentage and not because your demonstration of commitment to the school was just super-fantastic) are arguing against kind of brings a question of bias into play. God forbid you're forced to come to terms with the fact that people are getting screwed over for no good reason (again, my opinion) due to your schools admissions process, which benefits YOU, the reverse splitters who were able to raise their yield percentage. If you truly think it was about who "wanted it the most" because "that's just UVA's culture," take a look at the other couple thousand people who would die to get into UVA or any t14 for that matter, but don't have the stats. You just happened to be the people with highest stats that they could lock in for their acceptance rate & Yield percentage.

Now please, stop derailing (or continuing) this thread. If you hate people that complain about admissions processes wasting applicants time, start a new one.

And just as a note, he didn't mean "Diversity" between people who love UVA and people who hate it. That's kind of what we're trying to tell you. Just because you didn't ED to UVA or write a Why UVA doesn't necessarily say a damn thing about your commitment to the school...


You should probably go to Chicago, you'd fit right in.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby HeavenWood » Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:21 pm

.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Sun Nov 21, 2010 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:24 pm

jawsthegreat wrote:
You should probably go to Chicago, you'd fit right in.

Dude...

A) Dont be dissing one of the best schools in the world for the purposes of arguing for UVA.

B) You are giving UVA wayyy too much credit. I have seen strong applicants (3.8x, 174+) with great essays+compelling Why UVA (all of which I edited so I know its good) get rejected. At the same time I have seen relatively mediocre applicants (3.4x, 168-171) standard essays and no Why UVA at all get in. That indicates something a little different from this idea of a school only accepting people that want to be there.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby IAFG » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:26 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
You should probably go to Chicago, you'd fit right in.

Dude...

A) Dont be dissing one of the best schools in the world for the purposes of arguing for UVA.

B) You are giving UVA wayyy too much credit. I have seen strong applicants (3.8x, 174+) with great essays+compelling Why UVA (all of which I edited so I know its good) get rejected. At the same time I have seen relatively mediocre applicants (3.4x, 168-171) standard essays and no Why UVA at all get in. That indicates something a little different from this idea of a school only accepting people that want to be there.

residents? if you're a resident and 17X, you're in

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:27 pm

IAFG wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
You should probably go to Chicago, you'd fit right in.

Dude...

A) Dont be dissing one of the best schools in the world for the purposes of arguing for UVA.

B) You are giving UVA wayyy too much credit. I have seen strong applicants (3.8x, 174+) with great essays+compelling Why UVA (all of which I edited so I know its good) get rejected. At the same time I have seen relatively mediocre applicants (3.4x, 168-171) standard essays and no Why UVA at all get in. That indicates something a little different from this idea of a school only accepting people that want to be there.

residents? if you're a resident and 17X, you're in


Some residents, some not.

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby bgdddymtty » Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:30 am

mst wrote:1)It is when you are wait listing people who pay your app fee, but have better numbers and applications than the people you are admitting in many, many cases.
2)Good for you. On a flip note, it says to me that the applicant doesn't want to commit to 200,000 dollars in loans if they don't have to. Which only says that they are probably smart people, especially in this legal market. As for Why UVA, it simply says they didn't know about a non-existent quasi-requirement that really isn't posted anywhere directly tied to the application, or that they aren't going to stoop to the level of picking random policy centers and journal titles off of a website because they believe (with good reason) that it just embarrasses themselves and the school, who all know what is happening.

1) Better numbers, fine. But better applications? According to whose criteria? You don't seem to get that desire to attend the school is one of UVa's admissions factors! And there's nothing illegitimate about that. Not only does every law school do it to one degree or another, but in the case of UVa it has allowed the school to foster a culture that is unlike that of any other top-tier law school.

If you want to go to a school that is more pure in its focus on numbers, that's your right. (Although it should be noted that even with all of this "injustice," UVa somehow manages numbers that are in line with the non-HYSCC T-14.) That's why you're not a fit for UVa.

2) Applicants in a hyper-competitive application pool have no idea that indicating to the school that they are uniquely interested in that school will give them a greater chance of being admitted? Really?

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:11 am

AreJay711 wrote:
Saltqjibo wrote:So this thread was pretty much useless in helping me decide if I should do a why UVA. I have a 3.76 and a 175. Someone said the class was full already? I don't know what the hell is going on


Yes write a why UVA

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Re: Should I do a why UVA?

Postby jawsthegreat » Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:23 am

tkgrrett wrote:
jawsthegreat wrote:
You should probably go to Chicago, you'd fit right in.

Dude...

A) Dont be dissing one of the best schools in the world for the purposes of arguing for UVA.

B) You are giving UVA wayyy too much credit. I have seen strong applicants (3.8x, 174+) with great essays+compelling Why UVA (all of which I edited so I know its good) get rejected. At the same time I have seen relatively mediocre applicants (3.4x, 168-171) standard essays and no Why UVA at all get in. That indicates something a little different from this idea of a school only accepting people that want to be there.


1) I'm not dissing Chicago. I'm just saying that he'd probably fit in there, better than he would at UVA.

2) Where do people on this board get off thinking that having good numbers entitles them to anything?




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