Big law is ballin', but...

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Sentry
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby Sentry » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:31 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...

I didn't know playing StarCraft was considered a job.

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20160810
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:32 pm

Sentry wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...

I didn't know playing StarCraft was considered a job.

Or that lag time counts towards the hours total

thegor1987
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby thegor1987 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:32 pm

between going to classes, studying, working 20-40 hours per week and extracurricular activities which fall under 'work' category, many pre-law students are already working big law hours.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:33 pm

SBL wrote:
Sentry wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...

I didn't know playing StarCraft was considered a job.

Or that lag time counts towards the hours total


If that's the case then working out the APM, 2,390 Korean Starcraft hours work out to 12,345 US Starcraft hours - on average.

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20160810
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:35 pm

thegor1987 wrote:between going to classes, studying, working 20-40 hours per week and extracurricular activities which fall under 'work' category, many pre-law students are already working big law hours.

If you're putting in anywhere near biglaw hours as an undergrad, you're doing it really, really, really, really wrong.

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gwuorbust
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby gwuorbust » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:42 pm

SBL wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:between going to classes, studying, working 20-40 hours per week and extracurricular activities which fall under 'work' category, many pre-law students are already working big law hours.

If you're putting in anywhere near biglaw hours as an undergrad, you're doing it really, really, really, really wrong.


meh, maybe it is just GWU culture but thegor1987 statement wasn't that far off base for my experience. now I am putting in more study hours at LS, but I think I am working about as many hours (70-80/h week).

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:48 pm

SBL wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:between going to classes, studying, working 20-40 hours per week and extracurricular activities which fall under 'work' category, many pre-law students are already working big law hours.

If you're putting in anywhere near biglaw hours as an undergrad, you're doing it really, really, really, really wrong.


I consider counting ceiling popcorn as a job - so... where does that put me?

motiontodismiss
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby motiontodismiss » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:58 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


Yes, but the average South Korean is about half as productive as the average American. And even less productive than the average European.
Last edited by motiontodismiss on Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thegor1987
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby thegor1987 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 5:58 pm

SBL wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:between going to classes, studying, working 20-40 hours per week and extracurricular activities which fall under 'work' category, many pre-law students are already working big law hours.

If you're putting in anywhere near biglaw hours as an undergrad, you're doing it really, really, really, really wrong.


there are ways to put in the biglaw hours in undergrad. Just work 30 hours thu-sun and take 18 credits of aeronautical engineering mon-fri. Anyone can do it! Find a bartending job, and declare the hardest major available on campus. And see if it is possible for a human to do any more work than that.

It might be possible to turn yourself into a robot but our technology is not advanced enough yet.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:03 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


Yes, but the average South Korean is about half as productive as the average American. And even less productive than the average European.


I think you have it the other way around.

South Koreans are at least twice as productive as Americans. There are no unions or laws(generally) to limit productivity.

If you consider wage in the measure of productivity - yeah, we(Americans) have no chance!

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fugitivejammer
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:05 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


Yes, but the average South Korean is about half as productive as the average American. And even less productive than the average European.


I think you have it the other way around.

South Koreans are at least twice as productive as Americans. There are no unions or laws(generally) to limit productivity.

If you consider wage in the measure of productivity - yeah, we(Americans) have no chance!


First off, let me start by mentioning that Star Craft 2 is awesome.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:08 pm

fugitivejammer wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


Yes, but the average South Korean is about half as productive as the average American. And even less productive than the average European.


I think you have it the other way around.

South Koreans are at least twice as productive as Americans. There are no unions or laws(generally) to limit productivity.

If you consider wage in the measure of productivity - yeah, we(Americans) have no chance!


First off, let me start by mentioning that Star Craft 2 is awesome.


Indeed - it's a perfect format for me. I'll be writing papers or something for 4 hours straight and want to play something for 20-30 mins, Starcraft usually fits the bill - provides intro and closure within that time usually.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby motiontodismiss » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:20 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


Yes, but the average South Korean is about half as productive as the average American. And even less productive than the average European.


I think you have it the other way around.

South Koreans are at least twice as productive as Americans. There are no unions or laws(generally) to limit productivity.

If you consider wage in the measure of productivity - yeah, we(Americans) have no chance!


I'm working in South Korea. And let me assure you that the people I work with do a LOT LESS work than I've seen at an American workplace. It may be true in the manufacturing sector (unionized lawyers? bankers? accountants? yeah right) but in the white collar sector Americans are a lot more productive. I myself spend 4-5 of the 8 hours I spend at work studying for the LSAT. And that's when I'm most productive, and my boss loves me.

I'm guessing it's a function of compensation. Compensation in South Korea is absolute shit. And jobs are like impossible to get. Seoul is the 14th most expensive city in the world (New York is 27th), and a job in Seoul will pay half as much as a job in New York, if you're not an expat that was brought in from overseas.

bigben
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby bigben » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:06 pm

JazzOne wrote:
bigben wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Unfortunately, only one of those will be enough for a bonus at my firm. :(
Then again, base pay is above market, so I'll just keep telling myself it's ok.

Lolwut? No bonus unless you hit 3k? That's totally absurd, never heard anything like it.

I didn't say that. I said 3K was the only one of the three options listed that would be sufficient for a bonus.

These two statements mean the same thing. Unless you're saying that you could get a bonus based on something other than hours. Still, to have 3k be the hours threshold for getting a bonus seems crazy to me.

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JazzOne
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby JazzOne » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:10 pm

bigben wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
bigben wrote:
JazzOne wrote:Unfortunately, only one of those will be enough for a bonus at my firm. :(
Then again, base pay is above market, so I'll just keep telling myself it's ok.

Lolwut? No bonus unless you hit 3k? That's totally absurd, never heard anything like it.

I didn't say that. I said 3K was the only one of the three options listed that would be sufficient for a bonus.

These two statements mean the same thing. Unless you're saying that you could get a bonus based on something other than hours. Still, to have 3k be the hours threshold for getting a bonus seems crazy to me.

No, they don't mean the same thing. The options were 2000, 2400, and 3000. If there was a bonus offered at 2,600, then 3K would not be the threshold, yet it would still be the only one on the list that merits a bonus.

bigben
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby bigben » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:25 pm

Got it. Not all cylinders firing today.

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:59 pm


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crazycanuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby crazycanuck » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:06 pm

motiontodismiss wrote:This also makes me think long and hard about law school in Canada....seems there's a shortage of lawyers in Canada. $100k to start is also reasonable for pay too.


It's not so much a shortage as better regulations on schools.

They can only have as many seats to the amount they can prove there is a need for in their immediate area. If they cannot prove this need they cannot open the school. Ryerson tried to open a law school but got shut down because they could not prove there was a need for 52 new lawyers every year in their immediate vicinity.

I don't know of anyone who was top 30-50% and still looking for jobs. Maybe the bottom 10% at UBC can't find jobs, but they shouldn't be able to, they sucked.

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AreJay711
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby AreJay711 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:21 pm

canuck wrote:Just to add to this debate:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/1 ... tml?hpt=C2


This article could have been on TLS

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Royal
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby Royal » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:32 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


It's not about being "wimpy", although that "man up and put your hours in" attitude is pervasive. I think many people take issue with the notion of dedicating their lives to companies/firms that care very little about them, when such companies can, and often do, shitcan dedicated employees on a routine basis to keep the owners/partners/stockholders happy. See Lathamed.

The idea of working long hours doesn't deter me. I don't want to spend 70 hours a week of my life as a cog in a machine that cares very little about me just because it's an effective way to pay my mortgage. However, I would gladly put in 90 hours per week (or whatever it took) if I were building and running my own firm or company. Maybe I'm weird, though.

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JazzOne
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby JazzOne » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:35 pm

Royal wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


It's not about being "wimpy", although that "man up and put your hours in" attitude is pervasive. I think many people take issue with the notion of dedicating their lives to companies/firms that care very little about them, when such companies can, and often do, shitcan dedicated employees on a routine basis to keep the owners/partners/stockholders happy. See Lathamed.

The idea of working long hours doesn't deter me. I don't want to spend 70 hours a week of my life as a cog in a machine that cares very little about me just because it's an effective way to pay my mortgage. However, I would gladly put in 90 hours per week (or whatever it took) if I were building and running my own firm or company. Maybe I'm weird, though.

If you look hard enough, you might find a firm worth the effort to become partner.

FlamingCow
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby FlamingCow » Wed Nov 17, 2010 2:41 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:"the average South Korean works 2,390 hours each year, according to the OECD"

And that's only average. Such people are huge wimps when it comes to hours...


Yes, but the average South Korean is about half as productive as the average American. And even less productive than the average European.


I think you have it the other way around.

South Koreans are at least twice as productive as Americans. There are no unions or laws(generally) to limit productivity.

If you consider wage in the measure of productivity - yeah, we(Americans) have no chance!


The American workforce (across all sectors) is still the world's most productive, and still by a good clip among OECD states. Even in heavily unionized sectors (manufacturing) we set the pace, and have still posted productivity gains throughout the recession (which contributes to the "jobless recovery" phenomenon in many sectors). This is one reason why the US economy as a whole is still the most profitable in the world, despite China's rapidly growing but still somewhat unproductive (compared to the US) economy, and despite the EU bloc being bigger overall (no one ever accused the French workforce of efficiency).

High volumes of hours worked doesn't necessarily translate into productivity. It's just that in the US, we work a lot of hours and we're highly productive.

/derail

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nealric
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby nealric » Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:47 pm

As far as happiness goes, I think people in the 50's were happier overall in spite of this because money is not all that matters.


Unless they were anything but middle class white people. Doubt the people running from the KKK in Alabama were all that happy.

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:05 pm

nealric wrote:
As far as happiness goes, I think people in the 50's were happier overall in spite of this because money is not all that matters.


Unless they were anything but middle class white people. Doubt the people running from the KKK in Alabama were all that happy.


Great point!

Wait...no, that has nothing to do with anything.

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JazzOne
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby JazzOne » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:20 pm

canuck wrote:
nealric wrote:
As far as happiness goes, I think people in the 50's were happier overall in spite of this because money is not all that matters.


Unless they were anything but middle class white people. Doubt the people running from the KKK in Alabama were all that happy.


Great point!

Wait...no, that has nothing to do with anything.

Ya, who cares about minorities! They don't count.




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