Big law is ballin', but...

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canuck
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Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:20 pm

Take a look at this great article --LinkRemoved--

There is a strong demand for lawyers in small towns in Canada. Doesn't the idea of living in a small town, setting your own hours, having time for family and recreation, and still pulling about six figures appeal to any of you?

This definitely has me thinking about studying in Canada. The big law NYC dream is nice, but all the horror stories about 80 work weeks and general hating of life is making me think long and hard.

What does everyone think?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:38 pm

If 80 hour work weeks scare you why are you even thinking of going to law school unless you're going with $$$.

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northwood
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby northwood » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:39 pm

in the end you have to do whats best for you. Not everyone has the same dreams and aspirations. Everything comes with a price, its up to you to decide if the price is worth it or not.

do what you think,know and feel is best for you and your situtation. If you listen to others and not to yourself, you will end up miserable.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:41 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:If 80 hour work weeks scare you why are you even thinking of going to law school unless you're going with $$$.


:facepalm:

clone22
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby clone22 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:44 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:If 80 hour work weeks scare you why are you even thinking of going to law school unless you're going with $$$.

because the idea of having a life outside of work is completely foreign to lawyers?

not everyone wants to burn out in 5 years and be prematurely balding by early 30's

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northwood
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby northwood » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:45 pm

im in my mid 20s and ive been balding for a while!


you cant blame work for bad genetics! Actually, its not that bad, I save a lot of money on hair cuts and use very little shampoo... so its more of a win for me!

motiontodismiss
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:46 pm

Sounds nice, but it's not the kind of work I'm looking for.

You know I'm sure the guy in the article can get someone if he pays them twice what Toronto biglaw will pay. I think it's a matter of him not willing to shell out the $$$ to get someone, not a matter of being able to find someone. People can be persuaded to do anything with money. It's a question of how much.

This also makes me think long and hard about law school in Canada....seems there's a shortage of lawyers in Canada. $100k to start is also reasonable for pay too.
Last edited by motiontodismiss on Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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AreJay711
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:46 pm

Id say relative wealth is whats important (100k = big money in a small town but only average in Manhattan). The average person now is much better off that they were in the 50's but do you think they are happier for it? I'd say go for it if thats what you want. You will probably be happier for it in the end.

On the other hand, people who would be happy in biglaw would work 2000 hours a week in their own small practice so for them it wouldn't make sense for them to take this route though.

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:51 pm

Hattori Hanzo wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:If 80 hour work weeks scare you why are you even thinking of going to law school unless you're going with $$$.


:facepalm:


+1

Also Canadian law schools are $10K to $20K a year.
Do you seriously expect to work 80 hours/week and enjoy your life? I realize there are busy periods where this may happen, but there is no way I am cool with working this much all my life and I am a very hard worker (sorry if that sounds arrogant, but my academic record speaks for itself).

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:55 pm

canuck wrote:
Hattori Hanzo wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:If 80 hour work weeks scare you why are you even thinking of going to law school unless you're going with $$$.


:facepalm:


+1

Also Canadian law schools are $10K to $20K a year.
Do you seriously expect to work 80 hours/week and enjoy your life? I realize there are busy periods where this may happen, but there is no way I am cool with working this much all my life and I am a very hard worker (sorry if that sounds arrogant, but my academic record speaks for itself).


You've never worked in a corporate environment, right?

If you can't do 80 hours a week, theres always somebody right under you willing to work 90 hours a week, and for less. This is barring labor unions, of course.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:57 pm

I expect to do 70+ hours no matter where I am. Hours are not an issue.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:57 pm

canuck wrote:
Hattori Hanzo wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:If 80 hour work weeks scare you why are you even thinking of going to law school unless you're going with $$$.


:facepalm:


+1

Also Canadian law schools are $10K to $20K a year.
Do you seriously expect to work 80 hours/week and enjoy your life? I realize there are busy periods where this may happen, but there is no way I am cool with working this much all my life and I am a very hard worker (sorry if that sounds arrogant, but my academic record speaks for itself).


Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:59 pm

ResolutePear wrote:

You've never worked in a corporate environment, right?

If you can't do 80 hours a week, theres always somebody right under you willing to work 90 hours a week, and for less. This is barring labor unions, of course.


Actually I have. People put in their time, but 90 hours a week is nearly 13 hours a day including weekends. I love money, but I don't care about it this much. Working this much is not physically or emotionally healthy and it will probably eventually lead to worst performance overall. Not to mention, forget about having a family.

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:03 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:

Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?


Humans have needs. Relatedness, competence and autonomy are the three core needs. You'll likely be missing out on one of these if your whole life is work. Empirically, people who work this much are, on average, miserable. Not everyone will be and I hope none of you will be...but chances are life is going to suck.

motiontodismiss
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby motiontodismiss » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:04 pm

Last edited by motiontodismiss on Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:05 pm

canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:

Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?


Humans have needs. Relatedness, competence and autonomy are the three core needs. You'll likely be missing out on one of these if your whole life is work. Empirically, people who work this much are, on average, miserable. Not everyone will be and I hope none of you will be...but chances are life is going to suck.


There's so many things wrong with this statement it blows my mind.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:06 pm

canuck wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:

You've never worked in a corporate environment, right?

If you can't do 80 hours a week, theres always somebody right under you willing to work 90 hours a week, and for less. This is barring labor unions, of course.


Actually I have. People put in their time, but 90 hours a week is nearly 13 hours a day including weekends. I love money, but I don't care about it this much. Working this much is not physically or emotionally healthy and it will probably eventually lead to worst performance overall. Not to mention, forget about having a family.


Perhaps the mentality changes by industry... but, when establishing a book of business - you can't afford to tell a client: "Hey, I just passed 60 hours - it's going to have to wait till next week."

Personally, I never took the "I work too much" excuse lightly from any of my staff. If they can't handle more work beyond their required production, I won't punish them.. but I'll be damned if I'm going to give them a promotion over somebody who does handle the 80+ hours.

It could be different in a law firm, I personally doubt it.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby BruceWayne » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:08 pm

canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:

Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?


Humans have needs. Relatedness, competence and autonomy are the three core needs. You'll likely be missing out on one of these if your whole life is work. Empirically, people who work this much are, on average, miserable. Not everyone will be and I hope none of you will be...but chances are life is going to suck.


Not only that, but outside of buying a nice house and a nice car, you literally won't be able to enjoy the money you make if you are working that many hours. You won't be able to spend it on anything outside a house or a car because you won't have time to spend it on anything that requires your physical presence to enjoy it on a regular basis ( clothes, anything that has to be bought from a store, vacations etc.). Even with the house, you won't be at home enough to enjoy that. The only time you'll have to enjoy the nice car is when you're commuting back and forth to work. And ironically enough NYC (the place that most money hungry lawyers pine to be) will F you out of that enjoyment since you probably won't find it practical to drive to work.

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JazzOne
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby JazzOne » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:09 pm

canuck wrote:Big law is ballin', but...

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:11 pm

canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:

Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?


Humans have needs. Relatedness, competence and autonomy are the three core needs. You'll likely be missing out on one of these if your whole life is work. Empirically, people who work this much are, on average, miserable. Not everyone will be and I hope none of you will be...but chances are life is going to suck.


Empirically? I'd really like to see that data... because I've never felt more alive then when I have purpose 24/7. Some downtime is nice, but as long as I'm putting food on the table and providing myself with a comfortable lifestyle, I'd be willing to push 80 hours.

As for *enjoying* the money... there's always downtime for that and there's always a savings account with your name on it(I'd hope).

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:12 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:

Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?


Humans have needs. Relatedness, competence and autonomy are the three core needs. You'll likely be missing out on one of these if your whole life is work. Empirically, people who work this much are, on average, miserable. Not everyone will be and I hope none of you will be...but chances are life is going to suck.


There's so many things wrong with this statement it blows my mind.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmVdVJ1sRJI&sns=em

canuck
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby canuck » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:16 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:

Why do you expect that just because you won't enjoy it nobody else will?


Humans have needs. Relatedness, competence and autonomy are the three core needs. You'll likely be missing out on one of these if your whole life is work. Empirically, people who work this much are, on average, miserable. Not everyone will be and I hope none of you will be...but chances are life is going to suck.


Empirically? I'd really like to see that data... because I've never felt more alive then when I have purpose 24/7. Some downtime is nice, but as long as I'm putting food on the table and providing myself with a comfortable lifestyle, I'd be willing to push 80 hours.

As for *enjoying* the money... there's always downtime for that and there's always a savings account with your name on it(I'd hope).


I'll try to dig that up for you. I generally agree with you...I love working hard and making a difference too. I am always busy and I love it. I guess I am mainly just concerned about family and mental health.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:19 pm

I come from a country where working Saturdays used to be mandatory (same with school). Hours don't bother me a bit.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:20 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:I come from a country where working Saturdays used to be mandatory (same with school). Hours don't bother me a bit.


Azn?

Also, why so tar'less?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Big law is ballin', but...

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:24 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:I come from a country where working Saturdays used to be mandatory (same with school). Hours don't bother me a bit.


Azn?

Also, why so tar'less?


Attempting to remain anonymous during my (shitty) cycle.




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