Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

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ahduth
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby ahduth » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:26 pm

jgloster wrote:So being top 1%-2% at a T2 law school is like winning the Special Olympics.

You may have won, but you're still retarded.


No, sir or madam, you are retarded. Those people busted their asses to absolutely kill law school, and employers know that. They will always get a look. They are grinders.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:35 pm

ahduth wrote:
jgloster wrote:So being top 1%-2% at a T2 law school is like winning the Special Olympics.

You may have won, but you're still retarded.


No, sir or madam, you are retarded. Those people busted their asses to absolutely kill law school, and employers know that. They will always get a look. They are grinders.


I agree with the fact that they killed law school. There's something to be said, though, I was #1 or 2 at Wisconsin (a T1), transfered to Chicago, and I still only got 1 summer offer via OCI. Things really are quite bad out there. Top 1-2% at lower-ranked schools doesn't necessarily lead to anything. I know a few top 5% people at Wisconsin who are still jobless.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:57 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:
ahduth wrote:
jgloster wrote:So being top 1%-2% at a T2 law school is like winning the Special Olympics.

You may have won, but you're still retarded.


No, sir or madam, you are retarded. Those people busted their asses to absolutely kill law school, and employers know that. They will always get a look. They are grinders.


I agree with the fact that they killed law school. There's something to be said, though, I was #1 or 2 at Wisconsin (a T1), transfered to Chicago, and I still only got 1 summer offer via OCI. Things really are quite bad out there. Top 1-2% at lower-ranked schools doesn't necessarily lead to anything. I know a few top 5% people at Wisconsin who are still jobless.


How much of that is a reflection on Wisconsin's geographic positioning? I'd assume that there wasn't a huge legal market in Wisconsin even pre ite, and major mid western cities (I.E. Chicago) absorbed most of the Wisconsin big law folks, leaving the few secondary market jobs in and around the school for everyone else. Now that things have changed and Chicago is hurting, it only makes sense that there just isn't much to go around. Seems like the classic situation of the rankings being deceiving/ not the end all be all in school selection. What do you think?
Last edited by Aqualibrium on Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

solidsnake
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby solidsnake » Wed Dec 15, 2010 3:10 pm

Firms can't bill you out for more just because you were top 1%. Grades probably don't really affect hiring process any more than as serving as a useful proxy for intelligence to supplement the 20 min screener and 6 hour callback they must otherwise use to assess an applicant's candidacy. Pre-ite, firms needed bodies fast and rather than trying to selectively evaluate individual candidates, it was probably more efficient to hand out offers to everyone above a certain gpa cutoff , save only the most egregious interviewees, and see who accepts. Nowadays, however, fit is everything and good grades only cut towards demonstrating fit in that hiring partners see their people as being intelligent and want that commonality among successful applicants. But there are many other commonalities, positive attributes, and general potential they are seeking as well; some of which grades alone won't demonstrate.

The amount of entitlement i see top scorers have wrt biglaw is disgusting. this isn't usnews or 0L admissions: metrics aren't everything.

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lisjjen
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby lisjjen » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:35 pm

There's no magical buttons or switches you pull. There's strong, strategic decisions you can make and sometimes you bat out. Finishing 1% at a T2 is such a decision. Doing moderately well at a T14 is as well. Neither of these things are going to be evaluated by a hiring committee in a vacuum.

Tommy Boy
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Tommy Boy » Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:38 am

URMdan wrote:I think many of you underestimate how much of a role looks and personality can play in getting a well-paying job. I'm not saying this just for guys in particular, but I'm sure a hot babe gets an edge over somebody with slightly better numbers, and has great success at OCI.



You think attractiveness plays a significant role when it comes to attractive men ?

ArghItsBlarg
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby ArghItsBlarg » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:50 pm

Attractive people are attractive people, be they male or female.

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ahduth
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby ahduth » Mon Dec 27, 2010 6:12 pm

ArghItsBlarg wrote:Attractive people are attractive people, be they male or female.


Definitely. Attractive people are more confident. I've never interviewed anyone for a law firm job (obviously), but it's hard to overstate how thoroughly this can pervade the interview process in myriad subtle ways. A good 50% of the interview is complete before you even say hello.

theghostofDrewTate
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby theghostofDrewTate » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:09 am

Tommy Boy wrote:I know how hard it is to finish in the top 1-2% so that's why I'm saying it's only a hypothetical, but if you do finish that high at a T2 school can you get a BIGLAW job in any market you want ?


Probably not Chicago. To my knowledge, my firm did not go outside of the T14 other than for a diversity hire or two in the 2010 and 2011 summer classes and even the non T14s were still fairly highly ranked, well above T2. The Chicago market is awful for entry level right now.

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lisjjen
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby lisjjen » Tue Dec 28, 2010 3:46 am

ahduth wrote:
Definitely. Attractive people are more confident. I've never interviewed anyone for a law firm job (obviously), but it's hard to overstate how thoroughly this can pervade the interview process in myriad subtle ways. A good 50% of the interview is complete before you even say hello.


But Disney taught me not to judge a book by its cover.

No, but really. People start judging you the moment they become aware of your presence. Everything you say and do then becomes filtered through that first impression. It's one of the reasons that putting a nice new suit on a credit card for your first interview is a prudent investment - if God didn't pump you out attractive, a well cut suit, a tasteful tie with the right collar and a smart haircut will go a long ways in fixing that.

Another reason I love suits is I secretly want to be Patrick Bateman.

Brownadam26
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Brownadam26 » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:09 am

From what I know and have learned from a partner from a big law firm, if you are in the top 10% then you will be looked at by a big law firm. I've been confused about the economy and feel sorry for top grads at schools like Columbia that don't get a position at a big law firm. This confusion has lead me believe the advice of the partner and draw the conclusion that with doing your best and being great at what you do ensures that you can achieve your dreams from any school if you play your cards right. :D

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IAFG
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby IAFG » Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:10 am

bk1 wrote:Dumb hypothetical is dumb.

What happens if I win the lottery? Should I take the payments or the lump sum?

two chicks at the same time

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rayiner
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby rayiner » Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:48 pm

Brownadam26 wrote:From what I know and have learned from a partner from a big law firm, if you are in the top 10% then you will be looked at by a big law firm. I've been confused about the economy and feel sorry for top grads at schools like Columbia that don't get a position at a big law firm. This confusion has lead me believe the advice of the partner and draw the conclusion that with doing your best and being great at what you do ensures that you can achieve your dreams from any school if you play your cards right. :D


See my post earlier in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=137613&p=3618869&hilit=+jobs#p3618869

TL;DR version: out of 4,550 jobs at big law firms last year, the T30 took almost 3,500 of them, the rest of the T1 took another 600, leaving everyone else to fight over about 450. Assuming that nobody at a T3/T4 and nobody outside the top 10% of a T2 gets one of those jobs, that's still only about 450 jobs for the 1,900 people that comprise the top 10% of T2 students.

Top 10% at a T2 will get you looks from NLJ250 firms, no doubt. But look at the statistics this way. Even after you fight your way onto law review at a T2, you still have to beat out 3/4 of the other LR kids to get a job at a big firm.

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dresden doll
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby dresden doll » Tue Dec 28, 2010 1:16 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:How much of that is a reflection on Wisconsin's geographic positioning? I'd assume that there wasn't a huge legal market in Wisconsin even pre ite, and major mid western cities (I.E. Chicago) absorbed most of the Wisconsin big law folks, leaving the few secondary market jobs in and around the school for everyone else. Now that things have changed and Chicago is hurting, it only makes sense that there just isn't much to go around. Seems like the classic situation of the rankings being deceiving/ not the end all be all in school selection. What do you think?


If anything, the geographic positioning should have helped. Madison is king in the state of WI and firms there are notoriously insular and inclined to favor their own. Transfer would confirm, I'm sure, since he took a beating from Milwaukee firms just for the fact that he transferred out to UChi.

Those kids are jobless because economy blows. Really, it's as simple as that.

jaestro
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby jaestro » Tue Dec 28, 2010 2:39 pm

I think a distinction needs to be made between USNWR tier 1 and the tier one for big law. For instance, according to NLJ's top fifty schools that produce students for big law, there are schools that are outside of the USNWR tier 1 that produce more big law results than schools in tier 1.
So, with this discussion, one should make the tier 1 for big law according to the NLJ's top fifty schools.




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