Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

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rayiner
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby rayiner » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:21 pm

Gatriel wrote:
cortnf wrote:
Tommy Boy wrote:I know how hard it is to finish in the top 1-2% so that's why I'm saying it's only a hypothetical, but if you do finish that high at a T2 school can you get a BIGLAW job in any market you want ?


stupid hypothetical. and ITE i wouldn't be surprised if even top students at T2 get shitlaw


lol

Lemme guess. . . . unless you go to T14 and top 10 you're going to be pushing burgers at McDonalds. . . . .

Listen man, if you graduate top of your class from a T2 school (that is 52-100) then I don't see a problem going BigLaw.


Look at the pre-ITE data (for C/O '10 who did OCI in 2008 before the recession really hit): http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20sc ... page12.pdf

The top 25 schools on that list (which are all ~T30) placed 3,486 students into NLJ250 jobs at graduation. The rest of the Tier 1 placed another 600 students. There were 4,555 students hired into NLJ250 firms overall, so that leaves 469 jobs for the Tier 2 (+ weak Tier 1) schools.

Now there are 45,000 JDs per year, about 15,000 at T3/T4 schools. Let's assume none get jobs. There are about 11,000 graduates in the T1 schools that make the T50 (by placement) list. That's about 19,000 Tier 2 graduates each year. There are about 1,900 people in the top 10% of the Tier 2. That means 3/4 of them must not get NLJ250 jobs.

And that's optimistic. There are people with connections, etc, there are strong T3/T4s, etc. Plus, that data is pre-ITE. Since the recession, firms have cut to the bone on hiring even from strong regional Tier 1s, and eliminated hiring at T2/T3/T4 schools. Aside from a few very strong T2s, even for the top 10% biglaw is not only not likely, it's unlikely.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Tommy Boy » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:42 pm

What if it's not a T2 school but instead a school ranked in the upper 20's -30s like UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, Indiana, Alabama, etc . If you finish in the top 2% at one of those schools can you get BIGLAW outside of NYC and your own region, WITHOUT any connections, like the Houston market for example ?

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stratocophic
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby stratocophic » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:53 pm

Tommy Boy wrote:What if it's not a T2 school but instead a school ranked in the upper 20's -30s like UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, Indiana, Alabama, etc . If you finish in the top 2% at one of those schools can you get BIGLAW outside of NYC and your own region, WITHOUT any connections, like the Houston market for example ?
Why would you go to one of those schools in the first place if you didn't want to practice in the region? Why wouldn't you just go to the best school in the market you did want? :|

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ahduth
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby ahduth » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:58 pm

Stupid technical question - what constitutes T2? I think I may have been misunderstanding what that meant.

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stratocophic
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby stratocophic » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:59 pm

ahduth wrote:Stupid technical question - what constitutes T2? I think I may have been misunderstanding what that meant.
51-100

Aqualibrium
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:59 pm

stratocophic wrote:
Tommy Boy wrote:What if it's not a T2 school but instead a school ranked in the upper 20's -30s like UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, Indiana, Alabama, etc . If you finish in the top 2% at one of those schools can you get BIGLAW outside of NYC and your own region, WITHOUT any connections, like the Houston market for example ?
Why would you go to one of those schools in the first place if you didn't want to practice in the region? Why wouldn't you just go to the best school in the market you did want? :|



I don't think asking this question equates to going to one of those schools without wanting to practice in the region. Someone can go to one of those schools, be comfortable with the idea of practicing in the region, and still have a desire to test the waters elsewhere. I go to one of those schools, am not in the top 2%,10%, or 20% and did just fine in the region, and outside the region. Perhaps I am an anomaly though.

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stratocophic
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby stratocophic » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:01 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
stratocophic wrote:
Tommy Boy wrote:What if it's not a T2 school but instead a school ranked in the upper 20's -30s like UNC, Georgia, Wisconsin, Indiana, Alabama, etc . If you finish in the top 2% at one of those schools can you get BIGLAW outside of NYC and your own region, WITHOUT any connections, like the Houston market for example ?
Why would you go to one of those schools in the first place if you didn't want to practice in the region? Why wouldn't you just go to the best school in the market you did want? :|



I don't think asking this question equates to going to one of those schools without wanting to practice in the region. Someone can go to one of those schools, be comfortable with the idea of practicing in the region, and still have a desire to test the waters elsewhere. I go to one of those schools, am not in the top 2%,10%, or 20% and did just fine in the region, and outside the region. Perhaps I am an anomaly though.
Fair enough

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Tommy Boy » Tue Nov 16, 2010 7:31 pm

Sorry for beating a dead horse, but LA biglaw is a good possibility if you finish top 2% at ASU right ? The reason I mention it is their geographic proximity.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby rayiner » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:21 pm

Tommy Boy wrote:Sorry for beating a dead horse, but LA biglaw is a good possibility if you finish top 2% at ASU right ? The reason I mention it is their geographic proximity.


Is there a facepalm emoticon.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby General Tso » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:27 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
There is a poster on this site who is top 10% in a school ranked in the 60's who struck out at OCI.

Shit is bad out there.


pssh...that's nothing. there is a Hastings student on this site who is TOP TEN in the class and struck out at OCI.

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stratocophic
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby stratocophic » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:29 pm

Tommy Boy wrote:Sorry for beating a dead horse, but LA biglaw is a good possibility if you finish top 2% at ASU right ? The reason I mention it is their geographic proximity.
Image

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General Tso
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby General Tso » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:31 pm

ASU and UA do not place well in CA markets. Run a search for yourself here --> http://www.globl.org. Right now, most CA law schools do not place well in CA.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby DeweyWins » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:51 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:Honestly, at the T2 school in my area, if you graduate at the top of your class, you have your pick of biglaw jobs but mostly only in the region the school is in

I finished 1L ranked #1 at a T2 and TITCR. If you really are top 1-2% at a T2 you're going to be fine. You can have your pick of the best regional firms and you'll almost certainly get NYC biglaw as well if you put some effort into it.

Once you're outside the top 10 students or so things get iffy. And once you're outside the top 5% I'd say you'd be lucky to get something paying market.

Full disclosure: I transferred to a T6. So my opinion is based on the previous #1's at my T2 that I've talked to, my experiences at my new school's OCI, and my knowledge of how my friends did at my old T2.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:47 am

General Tso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
There is a poster on this site who is top 10% in a school ranked in the 60's who struck out at OCI.

Shit is bad out there.


pssh...that's nothing. there is a Hastings student on this site who is TOP TEN in the class and struck out at OCI.


The idea that all law students with good grades should be OCI lock is ridiculous IMO. I wouldn't hire 95% of the people here, regardless of their grades. I'm sure the same is true of other places. People without skills do not magically gain ZomG Greatttest SKiLzzs EvR! from one year of LS.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby URMdan » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:04 pm

I think many of you underestimate how much of a role looks and personality can play in getting a well-paying job. I'm not saying this just for guys in particular, but I'm sure a hot babe gets an edge over somebody with slightly better numbers, and has great success at OCI.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby URMdan » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:16 pm

General Tso wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
There is a poster on this site who is top 10% in a school ranked in the 60's who struck out at OCI.

Shit is bad out there.


pssh...that's nothing. there is a Hastings student on this site who is TOP TEN in the class and struck out at OCI.




So what? Impressive class rank is only a necessary condition, it is not sufficient to get you a job.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby Aqualibrium » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:42 pm

URMdan wrote:I think many of you underestimate how much of a role looks and personality can play in getting a well-paying job. I'm not saying this just for guys in particular, but I'm sure a hot babe gets an edge over somebody with slightly better numbers, and has great success at OCI.



Many of the hottest, most personable "babes" I know have no job because their grades weren't good enough. There is only so far that an employer is willing to bend.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby gwuorbust » Fri Dec 10, 2010 2:57 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
URMdan wrote:I think many of you underestimate how much of a role looks and personality can play in getting a well-paying job. I'm not saying this just for guys in particular, but I'm sure a hot babe gets an edge over somebody with slightly better numbers, and has great success at OCI.



Many of the hottest, most personable "babes" I know have no job because their grades weren't good enough. There is only so far that an employer is willing to bend.


I think its less how far the employer is willing to bend and far more with how much the applicant is willing to...

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URMdan
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby URMdan » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:06 pm

gwuorbust wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
URMdan wrote:I think many of you underestimate how much of a role looks and personality can play in getting a well-paying job. I'm not saying this just for guys in particular, but I'm sure a hot babe gets an edge over somebody with slightly better numbers, and has great success at OCI.



Many of the hottest, most personable "babes" I know have no job because their grades weren't good enough. There is only so far that an employer is willing to bend.


I never said looks/personality are sufficient to get a job, I merely said they play an understated role

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby lisjjen » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:11 pm

DeweyWins wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Honestly, at the T2 school in my area, if you graduate at the top of your class, you have your pick of biglaw jobs but mostly only in the region the school is in

I finished 1L ranked #1 at a T2 and TITCR. If you really are top 1-2% at a T2 you're going to be fine. You can have your pick of the best regional firms and you'll almost certainly get NYC biglaw as well if you put some effort into it.

Once you're outside the top 10 students or so things get iffy. And once you're outside the top 5% I'd say you'd be lucky to get something paying market.

Full disclosure: I transferred to a T6. So my opinion is based on the previous #1's at my T2 that I've talked to, my experiences at my new school's OCI, and my knowledge of how my friends did at my old T2.


Interesting post is interesting. So having gone to both, and having had the experience of being #1, and knowing other #1's, which is preferable - being top of your class at T2 (or even a regional powerhouse like UDub) or being at the bottom of your class in the CCN universe?

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby rayiner » Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:45 pm

lisjjen wrote:
DeweyWins wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:Honestly, at the T2 school in my area, if you graduate at the top of your class, you have your pick of biglaw jobs but mostly only in the region the school is in

I finished 1L ranked #1 at a T2 and TITCR. If you really are top 1-2% at a T2 you're going to be fine. You can have your pick of the best regional firms and you'll almost certainly get NYC biglaw as well if you put some effort into it.

Once you're outside the top 10 students or so things get iffy. And once you're outside the top 5% I'd say you'd be lucky to get something paying market.

Full disclosure: I transferred to a T6. So my opinion is based on the previous #1's at my T2 that I've talked to, my experiences at my new school's OCI, and my knowledge of how my friends did at my old T2.


Interesting post is interesting. So having gone to both, and having had the experience of being #1, and knowing other #1's, which is preferable - being top of your class at T2 (or even a regional powerhouse like UDub) or being at the bottom of your class in the CCN universe?


That's kind of a silly comparison. What about top 5% at a T2 versus top 1/3 at CCN? I know I'd rather be in the latter group.

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lisjjen
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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby lisjjen » Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:41 pm

rayiner wrote:That's kind of a silly comparison. What about top 5% at a T2 versus top 1/3 at CCN? I know I'd rather be in the latter group.


I wasn't particularly asking you, but OK. Why is that a silly comparison? I would think that there's a significant difference between the curve at say, Columbia, than there would be at a place like Penn St. Also, the apptitude it would take to be top 5% at the one very well might put you in the bottom half of the class at the other. These are serious questions that one might ask before giving up a full ride to take on $200,000 of debt.

But I forgot, you were going to tell me why that was silly.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:21 pm

lisjjen wrote:
rayiner wrote:That's kind of a silly comparison. What about top 5% at a T2 versus top 1/3 at CCN? I know I'd rather be in the latter group.


I wasn't particularly asking you, but OK. Why is that a silly comparison? I would think that there's a significant difference between the curve at say, Columbia, than there would be at a place like Penn St. Also, the apptitude it would take to be top 5% at the one very well might put you in the bottom half of the class at the other. These are serious questions that one might ask before giving up a full ride to take on $200,000 of debt.

But I forgot, you were going to tell me why that was silly.



I... but...

...

/facepalm

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby yepyep » Wed Dec 15, 2010 10:39 am

Desert Fox wrote:
Gatriel wrote:
cortnf wrote:
Tommy Boy wrote:I know how hard it is to finish in the top 1-2% so that's why I'm saying it's only a hypothetical, but if you do finish that high at a T2 school can you get a BIGLAW job in any market you want ?


stupid hypothetical. and ITE i wouldn't be surprised if even top students at T2 get shitlaw


lol

Lemme guess. . . . unless you go to T14 and top 10 you're going to be pushing burgers at McDonalds. . . . .

Listen man, if you graduate top of your class from a T2 school (that is 52-100) then I don't see a problem going BigLaw.


There is a poster on this site who is top 10% in a school ranked in the 60's who struck out at OCI.

Shit is bad out there.


That student could have shit him/herself during the interviews. Truth is you have no idea. That doesn't mean it's a trend. A lot of people melt when it comes to interviews.

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Re: Hypothetical : you finish in the top 1-2% at a T2 school

Postby jgloster » Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:15 am

So being top 1%-2% at a T2 law school is like winning the Special Olympics.

You may have won, but you're still retarded.




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