Any shot at Vanderbilt?

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whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:41 pm

JOThompson wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:He has no realistic shot. If you think being waitlisted is a realistic shot then have fun.

Did you fail reading comprehension on the LSAT?

How do you interpret "I wouldn't rule it out completely" as an assertion of a realistic shot?

See the numerous points where I suggested an LSAT retake. It would have been pointless to encourage another LSAT shot if he was competitive as is. All I've stated is that OP's application isn't an impossibility, if you're willing to consider the several stories by other TLS posters on the matter. Vanderbilt plays the numbers game well, no doubt, but that doesn't mean they don't admit a non-URM reverse splitter off the waitlist once in a blue moon.


Thanks for the info captain obvious. Me winning the lotto 20 times consecutively isn't an impossibility either but what the fuck does that prove?

Nothing.

You must be the most worthless poster I've ever seen. Since when is pointing out that something isn't an impossibility helpful in any sense?

JOThompson
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:51 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Thanks for the info captain obvious. Me winning the lotto 20 times consecutively isn't an impossibility either but what the fuck does that prove?

Nothing.

You must be the most worthless poster I've ever seen. Since when is pointing out that something isn't an impossibility helpful in any sense?

Your grasp of probability is strained if you can compare the small chance of a reverse splitter being admitted with the probability of winning the lotto once, let alone multiple times.

OP asked for an answer. I gave him one and stated it was slim but not unheard of. You are familiar with the concept of outliers, yes? The anecdotal evidence is out there if you want to dredge up old Vanderbilt threads. It's certainly unlikely but not at the impossible end. You might be worthless if you have nothing better to do than attack people who are at least attempting to address valid questions.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 10:54 pm

JOThompson wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Thanks for the info captain obvious. Me winning the lotto 20 times consecutively isn't an impossibility either but what the fuck does that prove?

Nothing.

You must be the most worthless poster I've ever seen. Since when is pointing out that something isn't an impossibility helpful in any sense?

Your grasp of probability is strained if you can compare the small chance of a reverse splitter being admitted with the probability of winning the lotto once, let alone multiple times.

OP asked for an answer. I gave him one and mentioned stated it was slim but not unheard of. The anecdotal evidence is out there if you want to dredge up old Vanderbilt threads. You might be worthless if you have nothing better to do than attack people who are at least attempting to address valid questions.


Yeah - let's go with the slim but not unheard of versus the heard of and proven.

You can say slim but not unheard of for ANY school. There's a girl who got into Yale with a 160 without being a legacy or a URM. Is this generally sound advice for people looking for schools to apply to? No.

JOThompson
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:03 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:Yeah - let's go with the slim but not unheard of versus the heard of and proven.

You can say slim but not unheard of for ANY school. There's a girl who got into Yale with a 160 without being a legacy or a URM. Is this generally sound advice for people looking for schools to apply to? No.

How often does a non-URM 160 land a Yale acceptance? How frequently does a 162/4.0 make it into Vanderbilt? You're bright enough to recognize that both chances aren't anything to ever bank on, but one's going to happen more frequently than the other. But go ahead, parse my words and paint me the fool for a statement that should be common sense.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:04 pm

JOThompson wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Yeah - let's go with the slim but not unheard of versus the heard of and proven.

You can say slim but not unheard of for ANY school. There's a girl who got into Yale with a 160 without being a legacy or a URM. Is this generally sound advice for people looking for schools to apply to? No.

How often does a non-URM 160 land a Yale acceptance? How frequently does a 162/4.0 make it into Vanderbilt? You're bright enough to recognize that both chances aren't anything to ever bank on, but one's going to happen more frequently than the other. But go ahead, parse my words and paint me the fool for a statement that should be common sense.


More frequently than the other doesn't mean much. Both are extremely rare occurrences and should be taken at face value for what they are - things that won't happen to you.

JOThompson
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:18 pm

There's a certain cold, stifling, and predictable appeal to using numbers to dicate an application strategy. It's certainly cost effective to apply to schools that are safely within your numbers range. The admissions game is almost entirely numbers driven. No one who spends more than five minutes on TLS will debate that with you. A few applicants apply to reach and super reach schools, most are dejected at the ultimate ding. Rarely, someone makes it into one of their super reaches. The worst they can tell you is no. Why wonder "what if?" for the rest of your legal career? If you have the extra money to apply or you, ideally, score a fee waiver, then it's worth it to purge the doubt from your mind.

If I'd followed your advice, I would've applied to only a few schools last cycle. I would be paying full price at a lower T1 or T2. Instead, I invested a lot of effort, time, and money in applying broadly. I expected disappointing results and got them for the most part. Today though, I'm sitting at a T30 with $$$ because I took a risk on what was a slim but not impossible chance. Take that for what it's worth.

HeavenWood
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:29 pm

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Last edited by HeavenWood on Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JOThompson
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby JOThompson » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:35 pm

I'm not a URM. ORM if anything. 159/3.74 shouldn't even be in the mid-T1. I outperformed my numbers, despite what should've been a trainwreck of a cycle. I was really fortunate. It doesn't normally happen in this admissions climate, but at the risk of being berated again, I'm going to say it's not unheard of either.

Adcomms do sometimes admit living, breathing human beings instead of dead numbers on a page. Not something you can count on. Still, I wouldn't discourage someone from applying to a dream school if there's been some evidence in the last three or four cycles of a person with similar stats getting in. It's probably going to be a waste of money, but the likely sting of rejection is worth the risk to some people.

HeavenWood
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:37 pm

JOThompson wrote:I'm not a URM. ORM if anything. 159/3.74 shouldn't even be in the mid-T1. I outperformed my numbers, despite what should've been a trainwreck of a cycle. I was really fortunate. It doesn't normally happen in this admissions climate, but at the risk of being berated again, I'm going to say it's not unheard of either.

Adcomms do sometimes admit living, breathing human beings instead of dead numbers on a page. Not something you can count on. Still, I wouldn't discourage someone from applying to a dream school if there's been some evidence in the last three or four cycles of a person with similar stats getting in. It's probably going to be a waste of money, but the likely sting of rejection is worth the risk to some people.


Sorry, I saw "ethnic minority" and assumed ORM. My bad.

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YCrevolution
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby YCrevolution » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:39 pm

..

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beachbum
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby beachbum » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:44 pm

The data from last cycle on LSN (which represents Vandy's most recent medians) indicates that OP has zero shot of getting in. I'm willing to grant you that, once in a blue moon, a non-URM with numbers comparable to the OP gets accepted to Vandy. I haven't seen it or heard of it happening (at least, not recently), but I wouldn't be completely surprised if it did indeed happen every once in a while, probably to someone with exceptional softs. Still, the statistical likelihood of the OP being that one rare acceptance is so low that it's not even worth mentioning. Any reference to OP's slim (but existent!) shot at Vandy goes against the spirit of this thread, which should be all about encouraging OP to retake if he has his heart set on the school.

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JazzOne
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby JazzOne » Mon Nov 08, 2010 11:44 pm

Ragged wrote:Retake!

JOThompson
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby JOThompson » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:26 am

beachbum wrote:The data from last cycle on LSN (which represents Vandy's most recent medians) indicates that OP has zero shot of getting in. I'm willing to grant you that, once in a blue moon, a non-URM with numbers comparable to the OP gets accepted to Vandy. I haven't seen it or heard of it happening (at least, not recently), but I wouldn't be completely surprised if it did indeed happen every once in a while, probably to someone with exceptional softs. Still, the statistical likelihood of the OP being that one rare acceptance is so low that it's not even worth mentioning. Any reference to OP's slim (but existent!) shot at Vandy goes against the spirit of this thread, which should be all about encouraging OP to retake if he has his heart set on the school.

I think we can all agree on the benefit of a retake. I suggested that in my very first post. I think the controversy arose when I pointed out that people with similar stats have been accepted according to anecdotal evidence on TLS. I've heard of maybe three over the past several years of cycles. I'm an optimist when it comes to encouraging people to apply to distant reaches. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.

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St.Remy
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby St.Remy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:41 am

JOThompson wrote:I think the controversy arose when I pointed out that people with similar stats have been accepted according to anecdotal evidence on TLS. I've heard of maybe three over the past several years of cycles. I'm an optimist when it comes to encouraging people to apply to distant reaches. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.


You can be an optimist all you want, but (to use an earlier analogy) the advice you are giving is akin to saying "buy a lotto ticket, your chances are slim but not zero." Buying a lottery ticket isn't optimistic, it's just dumb. You can feel free to buy as many $80 lottery tickets as you want, but when you advise others to do the same expect people to call you on how stupid it is.

HeavenWood
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:50 am

St.Remy wrote:
JOThompson wrote:I think the controversy arose when I pointed out that people with similar stats have been accepted according to anecdotal evidence on TLS. I've heard of maybe three over the past several years of cycles. I'm an optimist when it comes to encouraging people to apply to distant reaches. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.


You can be an optimist all you want, but (to use an earlier analogy) the advice you are giving is akin to saying "buy a lotto ticket, your chances are slim but not zero." Buying a lottery ticket isn't optimistic, it's just dumb. You can feel free to buy as many $80 lottery tickets as you want, but when you advise others to do the same expect people to call you on how stupid it is.


Vanderbilt will probably give her a fee waiver anyway. They gave me one, and I'm well into WL territory.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:50 am

HeavenWood wrote:
St.Remy wrote:
JOThompson wrote:I think the controversy arose when I pointed out that people with similar stats have been accepted according to anecdotal evidence on TLS. I've heard of maybe three over the past several years of cycles. I'm an optimist when it comes to encouraging people to apply to distant reaches. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.


You can be an optimist all you want, but (to use an earlier analogy) the advice you are giving is akin to saying "buy a lotto ticket, your chances are slim but not zero." Buying a lottery ticket isn't optimistic, it's just dumb. You can feel free to buy as many $80 lottery tickets as you want, but when you advise others to do the same expect people to call you on how stupid it is.


Vanderbilt will probably give her a fee waiver anyway. They gave me one, and I'm well into WL territory.


I didn't get one. I hate you Vanderbilt.

HeavenWood
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:52 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
St.Remy wrote:
JOThompson wrote:I think the controversy arose when I pointed out that people with similar stats have been accepted according to anecdotal evidence on TLS. I've heard of maybe three over the past several years of cycles. I'm an optimist when it comes to encouraging people to apply to distant reaches. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.


You can be an optimist all you want, but (to use an earlier analogy) the advice you are giving is akin to saying "buy a lotto ticket, your chances are slim but not zero." Buying a lottery ticket isn't optimistic, it's just dumb. You can feel free to buy as many $80 lottery tickets as you want, but when you advise others to do the same expect people to call you on how stupid it is.


Vanderbilt will probably give her a fee waiver anyway. They gave me one, and I'm well into WL territory.


I didn't get one. I hate you Vanderbilt.


That's what you get for only being one point off median. They know you'll be a sucker and pay the app fee anyway. :wink:

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St.Remy
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby St.Remy » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:53 am

HeavenWood wrote: Vanderbilt will probably give her a fee waiver anyway. They gave me one, and I'm well into WL territory.


Buying a $12 lotto ticket is also dumb.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:54 am

That's what you get for only being one point off median. They know you'll be a sucker and pay the app fee anyway. :wink:


This is completely true. I'm definitely emailing them asking for a waiver though.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:54 am

St.Remy wrote:
HeavenWood wrote: Vanderbilt will probably give her a fee waiver anyway. They gave me one, and I'm well into WL territory.


Buying a $12 lotto ticket is also dumb.


Not as dumb as buying a $75 one though.

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AreJay711
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:54 am

St.Remy wrote:
JOThompson wrote:I think the controversy arose when I pointed out that people with similar stats have been accepted according to anecdotal evidence on TLS. I've heard of maybe three over the past several years of cycles. I'm an optimist when it comes to encouraging people to apply to distant reaches. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree there.


You can be an optimist all you want, but (to use an earlier analogy) the advice you are giving is akin to saying "buy a lotto ticket, your chances are slim but not zero." Buying a lottery ticket isn't optimistic, it's just dumb. You can feel free to buy as many $80 lottery tickets as you want, but when you advise others to do the same expect people to call you on how stupid it is.


Buying lotto tickets isn't dumb and either is throwing Hail Mary's in law school apps... AS LONG AS THE MONEY IS NOT GOING TO AFFECT YOUR LIFE. You are still right that you should be careful when you advise others to do this though.

HeavenWood
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:55 am

St.Remy wrote:
HeavenWood wrote: Vanderbilt will probably give her a fee waiver anyway. They gave me one, and I'm well into WL territory.


Buying a $12 lotto ticket is also dumb.


If the OP refuses to retake, is that gung-ho about Vanderbilt, and is not stuck between a financial rock and a hard place, for her, it could very well be worth the $12 gamble. Buying the occasional lottery ticket isn't dumb if you can afford the fee and keep your expectations in check.

HeavenWood
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:58 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
That's what you get for only being one point off median. They know you'll be a sucker and pay the app fee anyway. :wink:


This is completely true. I'm definitely emailing them asking for a waiver though.


Go for it: Vanderbilt might actually be recruiting Asians. Until a couple years ago, they were gung-ho about getting Jews.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:58 am

HeavenWood wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
That's what you get for only being one point off median. They know you'll be a sucker and pay the app fee anyway. :wink:


This is completely true. I'm definitely emailing them asking for a waiver though.


Go for it: Vanderbilt might actually be recruiting Asians. Until a couple years ago, they were gung-ho about getting Jews.


I would hope so. I saw the ethnic diversity chart and Vandy and it had very few Asians than other law schools do usually.

ATR
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Re: Any shot at Vanderbilt?

Postby ATR » Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:00 am

HeavenWood wrote:Go for it: Vanderbilt might actually be recruiting Asians. Until a couple years ago, they were gung-ho about getting Jews.

Wat.




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