3.6/178~180/international student

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:19 am

I am from China and my major is computer science at one of the top 10 collage in China. I would planed to apply a CS master or PHD with a test of GRE, before lately I found my real interests in Law and being a lawer.

My GPA is 90/100, which I guess is about 3.6~3.7 of 4. I have not attend the Lsat test yet while I got really good points at model tests, depend on which I guess I can get 178 or even higher points in a real examination.

Do I have a good chance getting the offer from Harvard, yale, or stanford?

User avatar
2014
Posts: 5831
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:53 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby 2014 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:56 am

3.6 is on the lowside for HYS.

Assuming that you can get 178+ is extremely ridiculous. Your chances of doing so are very low even if you can score in that range on practice tests.

User avatar
kazu
Posts: 1602
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby kazu » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:02 am

An international GPA is not translated into a numerical U.S. GPA equivalent. You will get a ranking of either Superior, Above Average, Average, or Below Average when you submit your transcripts to LSAC.

+1 on 2014 though. You need to come back later with an actual LSAT score.

W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:19 am

2014 wrote:3.6 is on the lowside for HYS.

Assuming that you can get 178+ is extremely ridiculous. Your chances of doing so are very low even if you can score in that range on practice tests.

Thank you very much ^_^

I just want to know the highest level I can reach…… I mean I can't promote my GPA any more and LSAT is the only factor that I can do something about

If with assuming the best result i can get, there is still extremly low chance getting into HYS, maybe I should apply a cs master rather than a JD

PS:I calculated my GPA very strictly, any subject above 90,even 99 or 100 is seen as 4 and any lower than 90, even 88 or 89 is treated as 3……I can use another approach to recalculate my GPA to make it 3.7 or even higher……

PS2:By ridiculous you mean even one got 179 at the 2008 test(bought from the Internet)It still impossible for him to get similar score at a real test?


My English maybe a little wired, though trained a lot and took GRE test already, I did't have many chances talking to a real US guy…… any way, thanking for replying ^_^

W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:35 am

kazu wrote:An international GPA is not translated into a numerical U.S. GPA equivalent. You will get a ranking of either Superior, Above Average, Average, or Below Average when you submit your transcripts to LSAC.

+1 on 2014 though. You need to come back later with an actual LSAT score.


My main opinion it to see the best result I can get and to decide what I should apply……

I'm pretty sure I can get a CS master offer from top 50 or even top 25 schools, so it is hard for me to make a decesion to apply a JD


I will graduated at 2012, which mean I have entire year to prepare my LSAT, if it really pays, I will do my best to take it, however, if with even a high LSAT score I still can't get no chance to HYS, saving time maybe a best way for me >_<

Of course all these depend on the assumption that world will exist after 2012……


Thank you for helping ^_^


Oh, another question, I have great chance publishing some paper on computer, does it help for applying JD?

W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:36 am

kazu wrote:An international GPA is not translated into a numerical U.S. GPA equivalent. You will get a ranking of either Superior, Above Average, Average, or Below Average when you submit your transcripts to LSAC.

+1 on 2014 though. You need to come back later with an actual LSAT score.


My main opinion it to see the best result I can get and to decide what I should apply……

I'm pretty sure I can get a CS master offer from top 50 or even top 25 schools, so it is hard for me to make a decesion to apply a JD


I will graduated at 2012, which mean I have entire year to prepare my LSAT, if it really pays, I will do my best to take it, however, if with even a high LSAT score I still can't get no chance to HYS, saving time maybe a best way for me >_<

Of course all these depend on the assumption that world will exist after 2012……


Thank you for helping ^_^


Oh, another question, I have great chance publishing some paper on the filed of computer science, does it help for applying JD?

W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 8:36 am

Sorry……the internet……

how can I delete the surplus replying ……

="=

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:06 am

If you really do get a 178+ on the real thing you have a very good chance at HYS.

Too bad it's extremely common for people who average 175+ to score something like a low 170 on the real thing...or even mid 160's...

User avatar
deadpoetnsp
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby deadpoetnsp » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:14 am

whymeohgodno wrote:If you really do get a 178+ on the real thing you have a very good chance at HYS.

Too bad it's extremely common for people who average 175+ to score something like a low 170 on the real thing...or even mid 160's...


+1

User avatar
ODBCP
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:35 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby ODBCP » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:18 am

W_from China wrote:My English maybe a little wired


A computer science joke?

canuck
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:26 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby canuck » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:56 am

You shouldn't go to law school based on what shool you get into. If you want to be a lawyer anything in the T14 will be great. If you don't, don't go to law school. It is ridiculous to chose your education/career path based on University prestige alone.

User avatar
s0ph1e2007
Posts: 1054
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:37 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby s0ph1e2007 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:02 am

2014 wrote:3.6 is on the lowside for HYS.

Assuming that you can get 178+ is extremely ridiculous. Your chances of doing so are very low even if you can score in that range on practice tests.


TITCR

I averaged 179, got a 173... was lucky with that.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch

whymeohgodno
Posts: 2508
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby whymeohgodno » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:03 am

canuck wrote:You shouldn't go to law school based on what shool you get into. If you want to be a lawyer anything in the T14 will be great. If you don't, don't go to law school. It is ridiculous to chose your education/career path based on University prestige alone.

Unless it's HYS?

canuck
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:26 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby canuck » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:09 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
canuck wrote:You shouldn't go to law school based on what shool you get into. If you want to be a lawyer anything in the T14 will be great. If you don't, don't go to law school. It is ridiculous to chose your education/career path based on University prestige alone.

Unless it's HYS?


I still completely disagree. HYS aren't even leaders in every field. You get an education to pursue a career, not pad your resume with a fancy name.

User avatar
beach_terror
Posts: 7235
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 10:01 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby beach_terror » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:14 am

I love the OP's responses.

User avatar
Arbiter213
Posts: 2249
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:16 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby Arbiter213 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:18 am

whymeohgodno wrote:If you really do get a 178+ on the real thing you have a very good chance at HYS.

Too bad it's extremely common for people who average 175+ to score something like a low 170 on the real thing...or even mid 160's...


+1

<-- walking proof.

Avg 175, Tested 168, retook, 168.

W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:22 am

s0ph1e2007 wrote:
2014 wrote:3.6 is on the lowside for HYS.

Assuming that you can get 178+ is extremely ridiculous. Your chances of doing so are very low even if you can score in that range on practice tests.


TITCR

I averaged 179, got a 173... was lucky with that.
Don't count your chickens before they hatch


Thank you very much. I lover your word.^_^

W_from China
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 7:03 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby W_from China » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:34 am

canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
canuck wrote:You shouldn't go to law school based on what shool you get into. If you want to be a lawyer anything in the T14 will be great. If you don't, don't go to law school. It is ridiculous to chose your education/career path based on University prestige alone.

Unless it's HYS?


I still completely disagree. HYS aren't even leaders in every field. You get an education to pursue a career, not pad your resume with a fancy name.


I understand your meaning……however, in China you hardly have a chance to know what you really like. I get into the CS school only because I got high points in GaoKao(Chinese "SAT“), and I can't change my subject, even I found later that CS is not my favorite.

I suppose I will like being a lawyer, since I like the rule of people rather than the rule of number……

And I also afraid of that being a lawyer in US as a foreigner, will discrimination exist?

User avatar
mteevin
Posts: 127
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:23 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby mteevin » Fri Nov 05, 2010 10:54 am

as a foreign-born attorney in the united states who is obviously a non-native speaker, you will be handicapped. a critical component of hiring an attorney is their verbosity and command of language that, unfortunately, you may never have. this is not intended to be harsh, but is an honest assessment of the system -- at least to these eyes.

User avatar
sophia.olive
Posts: 885
Joined: Mon Jan 25, 2010 11:38 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby sophia.olive » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:06 am

nee how ma,

what above poster said
also are you timing the lsat/?

canuck
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 7:26 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby canuck » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:11 am

W_from China wrote:
canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
canuck wrote:You shouldn't go to law school based on what shool you get into. If you want to be a lawyer anything in the T14 will be great. If you don't, don't go to law school. It is ridiculous to chose your education/career path based on University prestige alone.

Unless it's HYS?


I still completely disagree. HYS aren't even leaders in every field. You get an education to pursue a career, not pad your resume with a fancy name.


I understand your meaning……however, in China you hardly have a chance to know what you really like. I get into the CS school only because I got high points in GaoKao(Chinese "SAT“), and I can't change my subject, even I found later that CS is not my favorite.

I suppose I will like being a lawyer, since I like the rule of people rather than the rule of number……

And I also afraid of that being a lawyer in US as a foreigner, will discrimination exist?


You will need to drastically improve your writing skills. If you think you want to do this start training intensively in English now.

User avatar
deadpoetnsp
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby deadpoetnsp » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:14 am

W_from China wrote:
canuck wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
canuck wrote:You shouldn't go to law school based on what shool you get into. If you want to be a lawyer anything in the T14 will be great. If you don't, don't go to law school. It is ridiculous to chose your education/career path based on University prestige alone.

Unless it's HYS?


I still completely disagree. HYS aren't even leaders in every field. You get an education to pursue a career, not pad your resume with a fancy name.


I understand your meaning……however, in China you hardly have a chance to know what you really like. I get into the CS school only because I got high points in GaoKao(Chinese "SAT“), and I can't change my subject, even I found later that CS is not my favorite.

I suppose I will like being a lawyer, since I like the rule of people rather than the rule of number……

And I also afraid of that being a lawyer in US as a foreigner, will discrimination exist?


I am an international applicant who has gone to grad school in the US. You will not face discrimination because you are a foreigner. I have found people in the US to be very friendly.

However, as a lawyer, it will be expected that you have a strong command over English and can effectively communicate with clients. There are some areas of law in which you may not directly communicate much with clients in person, and you can get by with good written English, but in other areas you will have to meet clients in person, and there you will need to speak and communicate fluently.

The difficult of the LSAT has increased in the last year or so. Give PrepTest 60, in strictly timed conditions. Then subtract 5 points from the score you get, to find the score you are likely to get on the actual LSAT.

Further, as an international applicant, you will not be eligible for many of the federal loans that US applicants rely on to fund their education. You have to
1) Be either extremely rich and pay for law school yourself,
2) Do exceptionally well and get a full tuition scholarship (however, you will still need to pay for living expenses which can range from 15K - 20K per year). Keep in mind that unlike engineering or science grad school, law school tuition waivers are not accompanied by living stipends (there are a few like Michigan's Darrow, but they will be extremely difficult to get)
3) Know a US citizen or permanent resident well enough that they agree to cosign an educational private loan from banks or other non-federal sources.

Hedwig
Posts: 835
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:56 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby Hedwig » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:22 am

deadpoetnsp wrote:
I am an international applicant who has gone to grad school in the US. You will not face discrimination because you are a foreigner. I have found people in the US to be very friendly.

However, as a lawyer, it will be expected that you have a strong command over English and can effectively communicate with clients. There are some areas of law in which you may not directly communicate much with clients in person, and you can get by with good written English, but in other areas you will have to meet clients in person, and there you will need to speak and communicate fluently.

The difficult of the LSAT has increased in the last year or so. Give PrepTest 60, in strictly timed conditions. Then subtract 5 points from the score you get, to find the score you are likely to get on the actual LSAT.

Further, as an international applicant, you will not be eligible for many of the federal loans that US applicants rely on to fund their education. You have to
1) Be either extremely rich and pay for law school yourself,
2) Do exceptionally well and get a full tuition scholarship (however, you will still need to pay for living expenses which can range from 15K - 20K per year). Keep in mind that unlike engineering or science grad school, law school tuition waivers are not accompanied by living stipends (there are a few like Michigan's Darrow, but they will be extremely difficult to get)
3) Know a US citizen or permanent resident well enough that they agree to cosign an educational private loan from banks or other non-federal sources.


Sorry, random thread hopping, but - can a US citizen (NOT living in the US) co-sign your educational loan? I'm not applying until next year so I haven't had time to do full research yet, so if anyone knows this off hand, that would be great. My mom and both grandparents are American citizens (but permanent residents in Canada) so if they could co-sign that would be nice. They still have ties to America (as in owning land, taxes, etc).

User avatar
deadpoetnsp
Posts: 149
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:57 pm

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby deadpoetnsp » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:42 am

Sorry, random thread hopping, but - can a US citizen (NOT living in the US) co-sign your educational loan? I'm not applying until next year so I haven't had time to do full research yet, so if anyone knows this off hand, that would be great. My mom and both grandparents are American citizens (but permanent residents in Canada) so if they could co-sign that would be nice. They still have ties to America (as in owning land, taxes, etc).


I think as long as they have sufficient assets in the US to cover the loan in case of failure to repay, you will be fine. The bankers need to make sure that if you skip town and never repay, they can get their hands on someone or something tangible.

eve2490
Posts: 84
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:00 am

Re: 3.6/178~180/international student

Postby eve2490 » Fri Nov 05, 2010 11:31 pm

90/100 should be a 3.8/3.9, an 80-85 seems to fit a 3.6-3.7 more, and LSAC will convert your GPA anyway so you will only find out then. If you know anybody from your university that has applied to law school in america, talk to them and see how their gpa converted. Do really well on whatever classes you have now if you have not graduated yet to make your gpa higher while you can.




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests