T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

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SALEGAL
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T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby SALEGAL » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:19 am

I am not a citizen nor that i plan on practicing law in the US. I got a government grant and pursuing JD degree. I only got admitted to T4 schools due to low LSAT and Low GPA. 

I read a lot about the difficulties of getting a job and the debt carried from law school. Since all that don't matter to me especially since i won't pay a dime and that JD is highly regarded in my country and pays really well. 

My question is, do T4 schools actually provide decent education? A level that would make me powerful in business law? my competition back home are lawyers with LLB or bachelor in Islamic Shari'ah and some went further by getting LLM from good schools in USA since LLM don't require LSAT (I bet they will get a hard time getting in non-ABA approved schools if they had to go through LSAT like i did). I noticed that those with LLM are weak in many areas especially drafting contracts or reviewing big cases in english due to language barrier and they tend to hire US JD graduates in their offices (American Citizens) and pay them a lot.

I am afraid i will turn to be one of them if T4 schools can not provide what i am looking for.

Can anyone put in his two cents?

Thanks!
Last edited by SALEGAL on Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MrKappus
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby MrKappus » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:23 am

Virtually no one on TLS will be able to tell you how T4 law schools are regarded in your country. It's true that the one thing less practice-oriented than a JD is a "Master of Comparative Laws," but that doesn't mean a JD's going to have you ready to be a lawyer. Also, don't you think it might be important to attend a law school in your country if you're going to be practicing in a Sharia system? I mean, if it's free, you can't raise your LSAT, and you aren't doing anything else for the next three years, then knock yourself out...but no one on TLS is going to tell you that going to a T4 law school's a good idea.

SALEGAL
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby SALEGAL » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:28 am

Thanks for the reply.

When dealing in business law in my country, there is nothing about islamic laws and the islamic scholars didn't study anything about mergers and acquisitions for example. So the dominating lawyers in business law are 100% americans or US graduates.

My question is: do T4 actually provide good education and the only problem with it is launching a job?

r6_philly
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:33 am

Look at the bar passage rates of said school. The education is only suppose to prepare you for a profession - to practice law. If you must practice law, and you can't improve your chances at a better schools, and you can do it for free, I don't see why not - as long as you end up a lawyer.

Although I suspect your vandy engineering degree should be more lucrative than a T4 law degree.

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vanwinkle
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby vanwinkle » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:34 am

SALEGAL wrote:Thanks for the reply.

When dealing in business law in my country, there is nothing about islamic laws and the islamic scholars didn't study anything about mergers and acquisitions for example. So the dominating lawyers in business law are 100% americans or US graduates.

My question is: do T4 actually provide good education and the only problem with it is launching a job?

The quality of education isn't immensely different between law schools, but many T4s will focus more on public interest law than business law because that's where most of their graduates will be able to practice. You'd have to make sure you chose the right school.

In the US, what separates T4s from higher-tier schools is in a large part the school's name and prestige and its alumni network. If you think that having any American JD would be valuable in your country, then going to a T4 would help, but if they care about what school you went to it might help you much at all.

Also, there are some T4s that are notoriously bad for reasons other than the quality of the education itself. They'll do things that are hostile to the students, such as force the bottom 10% of the class to drop out. If you don't do well your first semester they could kick you out as a result. You'd want to choose a school that didn't do that, just in case.

This is all kind of a simplified look at things, I think you should learn a lot more before you make any decisions, but hopefully some of this will be a good starting point.

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MrKappus
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby MrKappus » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:35 am

SALEGAL wrote:Thanks for the reply.

When dealing in business law in my country, there is nothing about islamic laws and the islamic scholars didn't study anything about mergers and acquisitions for example. So the dominating lawyers in business law are 100% americans or US graduates.

My question is: do T4 actually provide good education and the only problem with it is launching a job?


The "curriculum" will be remarkably similar to those of good schools. You'll learn the same black letter law. But the "education" stands a good chance of being inferior, because you won't have access to the profs, clinicals, externships, symposia, speakers, etc. that better schools are able to offer.

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ResolutePear
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:43 am

MrKappus wrote:
SALEGAL wrote:Thanks for the reply.

When dealing in business law in my country, there is nothing about islamic laws and the islamic scholars didn't study anything about mergers and acquisitions for example. So the dominating lawyers in business law are 100% americans or US graduates.

My question is: do T4 actually provide good education and the only problem with it is launching a job?


The "curriculum" will be remarkably similar to those of good schools. You'll learn the same black letter law. But the "education" stands a good chance of being inferior, because you won't have access to the profs, clinicals, externships, symposia, speakers, etc. that better schools are able to offer.


If able to find a cheap school which will give you a JD for ~36k in total, you'd really need to ask yourself if the extra 100-130k is worth it.

EDIT: Unless it's HYS(and...maybe)CCN. That'd be stupid.

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MrKappus
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby MrKappus » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:47 am

^ Troof. OP seemed most concerned about education quality, so I just felt the need to draw the distinction between curriculum and education. All you T14ers are paying for something besides JUST job opportunities, I think. You have access to really cool opportunities outside the classroom. To a lesser extent, flagship state universities and other T1/T2 schools do too, but not to the degree T14's do.

SALEGAL
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby SALEGAL » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:51 am

r6_philly wrote:Look at the bar passage rates of said school. The education is only suppose to prepare you for a profession - to practice law. If you must practice law, and you can't improve your chances at a better schools, and you can do it for free, I don't see why not - as long as you end up a lawyer.

Although I suspect your vandy engineering degree should be more lucrative than a T4 law degree.



You are right, with my specific 7 years experience in oil, i could get anywhere from 90-130K a year in USA. In fact job offers are still haunting my email but i don't want to ride pipelines in the desert anymore. T4 would only get me somewhere from 45-60K in America.

however the story is a bit different back home, i would get double what i used to earn as an engineer with a JD degree. your answer is very close to what i am looking for.

Education level is only what am inquiring about here. Law is what i want to do. If i find out the school is crap, i can only transfer later on since no good school will admit me at this time.

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ResolutePear
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Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:53 am

MrKappus wrote:^ Troof. OP seemed most concerned about education quality, so I just felt the need to draw the distinction between curriculum and education. All you T14ers are paying for something besides JUST job opportunities, I think. You have access to really cool opportunities outside the classroom. To a lesser extent, flagship state universities and other T1/T2 schools do too, but not to the degree T14's do.


Agreed.

Also, from what I've been told and have seen firsthand, law school only does so much to prepare you for "the real world" in terms of education since there is only so much books and "safety net" hands on "stuff" can teach you.

Although, I'll admit I have the same issue myself but for a totally different reason as I'm not really concerned with a JD for professional use. Instead, I want one for continued education into research of the science of law.

SALEGAL
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Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 1:01 am

Re: T4 free of charge, is it worth it?

Postby SALEGAL » Fri Nov 05, 2010 2:03 am

vanwinkle wrote:
SALEGAL wrote:Thanks for the reply.

When dealing in business law in my country, there is nothing about islamic laws and the islamic scholars didn't study anything about mergers and acquisitions for example. So the dominating lawyers in business law are 100% americans or US graduates.

My question is: do T4 actually provide good education and the only problem with it is launching a job?

The quality of education isn't immensely different between law schools, but many T4s will focus more on public interest law than business law because that's where most of their graduates will be able to practice. You'd have to make sure you chose the right school.

In the US, what separates T4s from higher-tier schools is in a large part the school's name and prestige and its alumni network. If you think that having any American JD would be valuable in your country, then going to a T4 would help, but if they care about what school you went to it might help you much at all.

Also, there are some T4s that are notoriously bad for reasons other than the quality of the education itself. They'll do things that are hostile to the students, such as force the bottom 10% of the class to drop out. If you don't do well your first semester they could kick you out as a result. You'd want to choose a school that didn't do that, just in case.

This is all kind of a simplified look at things, I think you should learn a lot more before you make any decisions, but hopefully some of this will be a good starting point.


Amazing reply. Thank you very much.




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