What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

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Shrimps
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Shrimps » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:50 am

How does the Admissions Committee evaluate multiple LSAT scores?
We will review all LSAT scores that you have received. In accordance with the American Bar Association and LSAC policies, we will focus on the highest LSAT score and report the highest score. Any large differences between LSAT scores should be explained in an addendum attached to your application and be honest about the discrepancy in your scores. We simply want to know why one score is a better predictor of your ability than another.


(UChicago web site).

Anyway, forget Chicago. I'm a "DENY" on the predictor thingie for them with my ridiculously low, barely excusable GPA. I was thinking about my chances at the lower T14's (most of which are "CONSIDER" with Cornell "STRONG CONSIDER" if I input 174 as my LSAT score).

And I have no explanation for the 166-174 gap other than "I accidentally misdiagrammed two games, bombed the section without realizing it and did worse than expected on RC". How does that make 174 a better predictor than 166 for the admissions people? I did PT consistently in the 171-176 range, getting to 179 a few times, but I highly doubt they'll give a damn about my PT averages.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:52 am

What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:54 am

Shrimps wrote:How does the Admissions Committee evaluate multiple LSAT scores?
We will review all LSAT scores that you have received. In accordance with the American Bar Association and LSAC policies, we will focus on the highest LSAT score and report the highest score. Any large differences between LSAT scores should be explained in an addendum attached to your application and be honest about the discrepancy in your scores. We simply want to know why one score is a better predictor of your ability than another.


(UChicago web site).

Anyway, forget Chicago. I'm a "DENY" on the predictor thingie for them with my ridiculously low, barely excusable GPA. I was thinking about my chances at the lower T14's (most of which are "CONSIDER" with Cornell "STRONG CONSIDER" if I input 174 as my LSAT score).

And I have no explanation for the 166-174 gap other than "I accidentally misdiagrammed two games, bombed the section without realizing it and did worse than expected on RC". How does that make 174 a better predictor than 166 for the admissions people? I did PT consistently in the 171-176 range, getting to 179 a few times, but I highly doubt they'll give a damn about my PT averages.


Schools are locked in a numbers battle... they won't care about the PT averages, but since they only have to report your 174, they'll definitely care that you're above the 75th.

So basically write yourself in as a regular 173/174 LSAT applicant for most of the T14.

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Ragged
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Ragged » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:55 am

Nom Sawyer wrote:What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that
Last edited by Ragged on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JJDancer
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby JJDancer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:56 am

Shrimps wrote:
luckyme wrote:I think the old thread post no longer applies...I believe the ABA recently recommended schools evaluate the top score



NYU very specifically says on their current website that they look at all the scores.

What they say they do is not necessarily what they do.
Depending on GPA you can probably get 2 out of the lower T14 at least

Shrimps
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Shrimps » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:02 am

Depending on GPA you can probably get 2 out of the lower T14 at least


3.0. Three point oh. With my only excuse is that I am not a native English speaker and had lived in the country for only about two and a half years before starting college and thus still struggled with the language (my GPA was higher in my junior and senior years, thank God, though still VERY unexciting). I was a slacker, to be honest. I could've done a hell of a lot better, but I didn't even think of going to graduate school or needing a sky-high GPA.

"I was an idiot" as an addendum?

whymeohgodno
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby whymeohgodno » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:03 am

Shrimps wrote:
Depending on GPA you can probably get 2 out of the lower T14 at least


3.0. Three point oh. With my only excuse is that I am not a native English speaker and had lived in the country for only about two and a half years before starting college and thus still struggled with the language (my GPA was higher in my junior and senior years, thank God, though still VERY unexciting). I was a slacker, to be honest. I could've done a hell of a lot better, but I didn't even think of going to graduate school or needing a sky-high GPA.

"I was an idiot" as an addendum?

ED to UVA or if you have WE ED to NW.

Shrimps
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Shrimps » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:04 am

whymeohgodno wrote:ED to UVA or if you have WE ED to NW.


WE?

mst
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby mst » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:06 am

JJDancer wrote:
Shrimps wrote:NYU very specifically says on their current website that they look at all the scores.

What they say they do is not necessarily what they do.


But it is what they do. Feel free to PM people from last cycle who got dinged or WL'd compared to those with the exact same numbers who got in and you will find that one of the only differences in some cases is that the former frequently had lower past LSAT's that were a bit lower.

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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby mst » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:06 am

Shrimps wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:ED to UVA or if you have WE ED to NW.


WE?


Work experience (at least 1 year full time)

mst
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby mst » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:09 am

Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that


170/168/174 - average 171. below HY/ above S
GPA 3.87 - just below H/ way below Y/ right at S also GPA has very high trend (3.96+ over the past 3 and a half years)


But if you don't get into all of CCN you can hit me in the face
Last edited by mst on Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shrimps
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Shrimps » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:10 am

"ED to UVA" has got to be one of the most popular expressions on this forum, btw. A bit like "Go to Prison" in Monopoly.

mst
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby mst » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:12 am

Shrimps wrote:"ED to UVA" has got to be one of the most popular expressions on this forum, btw. A bit like "Go to Prison" in Monopoly.


Yeah, I have a feeling there's a UVA admissions office that will be very perplexed someday soon.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:21 am

Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that


170/168/174 - average 171. below HY/ above S
GPA 3.87 - just below H/ way below Y/ right at S also GPA has very high trend (3.96+ over the past 3 and a half years)


Yeah in your case its a little more difficult because your numbers place you in direct competition with profiles that have exact scores like you do but without the retakes.

the fact that you are slightly below median for one of the numbers is also going to hurt... a median/median applicant at H will have much better chances than a slightly below median/ slightly over median applicant (and especially when you are matching up with people in your same situation without retakes)..

So rough guesses (putting aside application strength/softs/all that for the moment) would be a median/median at H is maybe 60~70% chance, one with your #s but no retake is maybe 35~45% chance, and your own situation closer to hmmm 25~40% chance depending on the rest of your application.

That said, you are in a very decent situation with CCN (chance of even getting $$ at some of them) but Y is probably out, and S is much more of a black box.

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jtemp320
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby jtemp320 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:45 am

This is the thread for me-

3.86 LSDAS GPA - 174 (October)/167 (June) - so average 171, high 174

From a little research today it appears Chicago takes the highest - very clear

Other T6 are ambiguous

For what its worth Berkeley seems to indicate they average but this is what they wrote to me in an email:

"Multiple LSAT scores will be considered on a case by case basis. We're more likely to use the average if the difference between the two scores is small (i.e. less than 6 points). Otherwise, we'll use the highest score, and you are always welcome to submit an addendum explaining the score discrepancy."

I think at this point those of us in this position just have to make sure we have the best app we can - and apply broadly knowing different schools may react differently to the diverging scores. My only question is do I submit a was under the weather, couldnt sleep all night ect. addendum

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jtemp320
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby jtemp320 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:48 am

mst wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that


170/168/174 - average 171. below HY/ above S
GPA 3.87 - just below H/ way below Y/ right at S also GPA has very high trend (3.96+ over the past 3 and a half years)


But if you don't get into all of CCN you can hit me in the face


Ragged is very close to being my numbers twin and I would give my right arm to go to Columbia - so I can hit you too if I dont get into all of CCN :lol:

acrossthelake
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:52 am

I know for HLS or NYU whenever you see "WTF how did those get rejected???" numbers, there is often a retake involved.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:55 am

acrossthelake wrote:I know for HLS or NYU whenever you see "WTF how did those get rejected???" numbers, there is often a retake involved.


Actually I think this is a case where correlation =/= causation... if you examine LSN closely, a lot of the rejections are due to the retake coming in very late, and thus the applicant applying at the very end of the cycle...

For schools like NYU/ HLS it makes quite a significant difference to get in a fairly early application, and chances decline by quite a lot as it draws close to the end of the admissions cycle.

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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:08 am

Nom Sawyer wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:I know for HLS or NYU whenever you see "WTF how did those get rejected???" numbers, there is often a retake involved.


Actually I think this is a case where correlation =/= causation... if you examine LSN closely, a lot of the rejections are due to the retake coming in very late, and thus the applicant applying at the very end of the cycle...

For schools like NYU/ HLS it makes quite a significant difference to get in a fairly early application, and chances decline by quite a lot as it draws close to the end of the admissions cycle.


Ahhhh. Didn't say it was necessarily causation, though I implied it. That makes sense though.

Shrimps
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Shrimps » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:19 am

Sigh.
LSAT: 166, 174
GPA: 3 (junior year: 3.4, senior year: 3.5) excuse: recent immigrant, not a native English speaker (but how the fluck does it explain my C in Calculus III, then?)

My task is to persuade the admissions people that my junior/senior GPA and my October LSAT are far more indicative of my potential than my freshman/sophomore GPA and my June LSAT.

mst
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby mst » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:42 am

Don't know how to help you with that one Shrimps. The fact that you're GPA is bad because of your english doesn't bode well for how it will factor into your law school performance. If you can take it from the angle of "I've adjusted and now am awesome at English," that might work.

They'll take the GPA trend into account, but it won't matter too much. Might help due to the addendum, but still...

And I think most people would agree that Calc 3 requires just as much of an understanding of the language it's being taught in as any other class....

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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby tipler4213 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:06 am

a
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Ragged
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Ragged » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:23 am

Nom Sawyer wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that




Yeah in your case its a little more difficult because your numbers place you in direct competition with profiles that have exact scores like you do but without the retakes.

the fact that you are slightly below median for one of the numbers is also going to hurt... a median/median applicant at H will have much better chances than a slightly below median/ slightly over median applicant (and especially when you are matching up with people in your same situation without retakes)..

So rough guesses (putting aside application strength/softs/all that for the moment) would be a median/median at H is maybe 60~70% chance, one with your #s but no retake is maybe 35~45% chance, and your own situation closer to hmmm 25~40% chance depending on the rest of your application.

That said, you are in a very decent situation with CCN (chance of even getting $$ at some of them) but Y is probably out, and S is much more of a black box.


Yea I'm really upset about being .01 GPA point below median at H. I should have postponed graduation and taken a couple of easy summer courses lol.

Thanks for the sober analyses Nom.

And again good luck to my non identical numbers twin jtemp (although we will be competing for the same spots at virtually all of the T6 :P)

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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby jtemp320 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:39 pm

Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:What are your scores Ragged? I can give you an estimate (or well my own guess) of what the effect is likely to be... basically I focused a lot on admission trends for like the top 10 schools since thats what I was looking at/ have pretty good LSN & anecdotal evidence for some of the finer details of admission there.... but not much below that




Yeah in your case its a little more difficult because your numbers place you in direct competition with profiles that have exact scores like you do but without the retakes.

the fact that you are slightly below median for one of the numbers is also going to hurt... a median/median applicant at H will have much better chances than a slightly below median/ slightly over median applicant (and especially when you are matching up with people in your same situation without retakes)..

So rough guesses (putting aside application strength/softs/all that for the moment) would be a median/median at H is maybe 60~70% chance, one with your #s but no retake is maybe 35~45% chance, and your own situation closer to hmmm 25~40% chance depending on the rest of your application.

That said, you are in a very decent situation with CCN (chance of even getting $$ at some of them) but Y is probably out, and S is much more of a black box.


Yea I'm really upset about being .01 GPA point below median at H. I should have postponed graduation and taken a couple of easy summer courses lol.

Thanks for the sober analyses Nom.

And again good luck to my non identical numbers twin jtemp (although we will be competing for the same spots at virtually all of the T6 :P)


Very true - good luck to you as well but dont take my spot! PS if it helps I spoke to the Columbia admissions office this morning - they take the highest score and dont average if its a 6+ difference, good news for us! :)

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Ragged
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Re: What top 14 schools have the highest or average LSAT policy?

Postby Ragged » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:52 pm

jtemp320 wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Nom Sawyer wrote:
Ragged wrote:


Yeah in your case its a little more difficult because your numbers place you in direct competition with profiles that have exact scores like you do but without the retakes.

the fact that you are slightly below median for one of the numbers is also going to hurt... a median/median applicant at H will have much better chances than a slightly below median/ slightly over median applicant (and especially when you are matching up with people in your same situation without retakes)..

So rough guesses (putting aside application strength/softs/all that for the moment) would be a median/median at H is maybe 60~70% chance, one with your #s but no retake is maybe 35~45% chance, and your own situation closer to hmmm 25~40% chance depending on the rest of your application.

That said, you are in a very decent situation with CCN (chance of even getting $$ at some of them) but Y is probably out, and S is much more of a black box.


Yea I'm really upset about being .01 GPA point below median at H. I should have postponed graduation and taken a couple of easy summer courses lol.

Thanks for the sober analyses Nom.

And again good luck to my non identical numbers twin jtemp (although we will be competing for the same spots at virtually all of the T6 :P)


Very true - good luck to you as well but dont take my spot! PS if it helps I spoke to the Columbia admissions office this morning - they take the highest score and dont average if its a 6+ difference, good news for us! :)


For you more than me. My scores are within 4 and 6. If they drop the 6 I'm still at their median though. We'll ride this out. 8)




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