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(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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MrPapagiorgio
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Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Oct 31, 2010 9:59 pm

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Last edited by MrPapagiorgio on Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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beachbum
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby beachbum » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:06 pm

Need more info. Is the T3 the only (or best) school in the region in which you want to practice? Are you comfortable with the possibility (or even probability) of being severely underemployed-or even unemployed-upon graduation? Have you made peace with earning ~$50,000 (best-case scenario) coming out of law school? Do you hate your parents?

Also, why no retake? This would far and away be your best option.

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MrPapagiorgio
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby MrPapagiorgio » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:08 pm

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Last edited by MrPapagiorgio on Fri Jun 15, 2012 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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4for44
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby 4for44 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:11 pm

beachbum wrote: Do you hate your parents?


This-

Just because your parents are bankrolling you to go, doesn't mean you should... More than likely (read not top 1-5% of class) you will graduate to just require more of their "generosity" as you will be under/unemployed.

TLDR: Retake or get a job- Don't waste your parents money

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beachbum
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby beachbum » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:16 pm

4for44 wrote:
beachbum wrote: Do you hate your parents?


This-

Just because your parents are bankrolling you to go, doesn't mean you should... More than likely (read not top 1-5% of class) you will graduate to just require more of their "generosity" as you will be under/unemployed.

TLDR: Retake or get a job- Don't waste your parents money


+1. I think it's easy to say that you're comfortable with the possibility (probability) of being under/unemployed until you're actually in that hopeless job search, or making $10/hour doing doc review. If you can't find the time to retake in December, then suck it up and plan for June. The path of least resistance is never a good policy for making life decisions.

Aqualibrium
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:37 pm

4for44 wrote:
beachbum wrote: Do you hate your parents?


This-

Just because your parents are bankrolling you to go, doesn't mean you should... More than likely (read not top 1-5% of class) you will graduate to just require more of their "generosity" as you will be under/unemployed.

TLDR: Retake or get a job- Don't waste your parents money



:? That was a mess.

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Grizz
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby Grizz » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:42 pm

Are you comfortable with possibly not even being employed as a lawyer post-graduation?

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2Serious4Numbers
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby 2Serious4Numbers » Sun Oct 31, 2010 10:49 pm

Good Luck. Your gonna need it.

tas817
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby tas817 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:09 pm

I don't understand TLS sometimes. I know so many people that go to schools that people on this forum think should be shut down and get good jobs. The biggest problem is that many people on this website believe that graduating law school entitles you to a BMW and $500,000 house. Starting at $50,000 is going to be fine in many markets as long you manage you finances. After a few years on the job market your school wont matter much anymore. Now don't get me wrong going to a top school is a huge advantage but there are countless people who go to Tier 3/4 schools that do fine. I say go to the tier 3 especially if they give some $. But try for higher ranking you never know what will happen. Good Luck

jasonc.
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby jasonc. » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:26 pm

tas817 wrote:I don't understand TLS sometimes. I know so many people that go to schools that people on this forum think should be shut down and get good jobs. The biggest problem is that many people on this website believe that graduating law school entitles you to a BMW and $500,000 house. Starting at $50,000 is going to be fine in many markets as long you manage you finances. After a few years on the job market your school wont matter much anymore. Now don't get me wrong going to a top school is a huge advantage but there are countless people who go to Tier 3/4 schools that do fine. I say go to the tier 3 especially if they give some $. But try for higher ranking you never know what will happen. Good Luck


yup!

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beachbum
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby beachbum » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:30 pm

tas817 wrote:I don't understand TLS sometimes. I know so many people that go to schools that people on this forum think should be shut down and get good jobs. The biggest problem is that many people on this website believe that graduating law school entitles you to a BMW and $500,000 house. Starting at $50,000 is going to be fine in many markets as long you manage you finances. After a few years on the job market your school wont matter much anymore. Now don't get me wrong going to a top school is a huge advantage but there are countless people who go to Tier 3/4 schools that do fine. I say go to the tier 3 especially if they give some $. But try for higher ranking you never know what will happen. Good Luck


This is hyperbole and bad advice. An otherwise solid $50,000 starting salary (again, best case scenario) begins to lose its luster when you have $100,000+ in loans and are forever shut out of the jobs which would allow you to efficiently pay off those loans. I realize OP is in the enviable position of riding on his parents' dime, but a TTT still presents a very poor return on that investment. Moreover, you run the (sizable) risk of never practicing in the legal field-or at least of never doing meaningful work in the legal field-which seems to be the reason for going to law school in the first place. For more on this, just look at the employment statistics (lawschooltransparency is a good start).

The legal job market is tough. And it gets exponentially worse as you move down the rankings. OP has a very respectable GPA and a bad LSAT score. The relatively small amount of time it would take to study and achieve a good score is nothing compared to the superior long-term career prospects of better schools.

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MrKappus
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby MrKappus » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:32 pm

I'm not even part of the "T10 or /self" crowd on TLS, but why on earth would you commit to an academic course of study that has such a significant chance of total failure and financial ruin? I just don't understand how this is remotely rational.

jasonc.
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby jasonc. » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:39 pm

If you want to it go for it. The market is bad period.

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beachbum
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby beachbum » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:43 pm

jasonc. wrote:If you want to it go for it. The market is bad period.


/facepalm

jasonc.
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby jasonc. » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:50 pm

/facepalm[/quote]

A c scenario : You end up at T-14 and your not at the top of the class v. a guy whose parents flip the bill? Whose in the better situation?

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beachbum
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby beachbum » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:00 am

jasonc. wrote:A c scenario : You end up at T-14 and your not at the top of the class v. a guy whose parents flip the bill? Whose in the better situation?


Another scenario: You're above median at a T14 v. a guy whose parents foot the bill and who isn't in the top 5% at his TTT.

I'll give you a hint: one of the two is going to be a lawyer.

jasonc.
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby jasonc. » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:10 am

I'll give you a hint: one of the two is going to be a lawyer.[/quote]

I disagree. Im sure both can pass the bar.

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beachbum
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby beachbum » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:15 am

jasonc. wrote:I disagree. Im sure both can pass the bar.


passing the bar =/= being a lawyer. HTH.

Aqualibrium
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:20 am

Technically, passing the bar does = being a lawyer.

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Grizz
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby Grizz » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:40 am

Aqualibrium wrote:Technically, passing the bar does = being a lawyer.


But it does not guarantee legal employment.

Aqualibrium
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:49 am

rad law wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:Technically, passing the bar does = being a lawyer.


But it does not guarantee legal employment.


Technically, as soon as you pass the bar, you are "employed" as a lawyer. In some states you don't even need an honest to goodness office.

GettingReady2010
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:58 am

2Serious4Numbers wrote:Good Luck. Your gonna need it.



So will you.

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Hattori Hanzo
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby Hattori Hanzo » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:10 am

tas817 wrote:I don't understand TLS sometimes. I know so many people that go to schools that people on this forum think should be shut down and get good jobs. The biggest problem is that many people on this website believe that graduating law school entitles you to a BMW and $500,000 house.


You are absolutely wrong. I believe that I will be entitled to an Aston Martin at least since I already have a BMW. The biggest problem is that some people would settle for a BMW.


OP: going to law school in your situation is a very bad investment. Now you can say it's your parents money not yours but regardless it's just that, a bad investment. If you're O.K. with that and really want to go to law school that bad, go ahead with it. At least you're not burning your own money.
Last edited by Hattori Hanzo on Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

RTFM
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby RTFM » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:11 am

Aqualibrium wrote:
rad law wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:Technically, passing the bar does = being a lawyer.


But it does not guarantee legal employment.


Technically, as soon as you pass the bar, you are "employed" as a lawyer. In some states you don't even need an honest to goodness office.


Seriously?? Clearly the point is that you can graduate from law school, pass the bar, and still not be able to find a salaried position in the profession you just spent 3 years and $150K+ on. This is true whether you graduate from a T1 or a TTT. And while there are many successful lawyers out there who graduated from TTTs, it is a WHOLE LOT harder.

GettingReady2010
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Re: T3 without debt?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 1:17 am

I think a lot of the people in this thread are overlooking the fact that in many cases, there is no difference between T3s and schools ranked 30+. If OP said he had the opportunity to go to one of the schools in the latter group for free, would the responses in this thread be any different? Just a thought.




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