Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

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jessedvhs
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Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Fri Oct 15, 2010 10:56 am

Hey all,
I am new to TLS forum, wondering if anyone on the forum came from a military background--currently applying, in school, or graduated & practicing?
I recently transitioned out of the US Army as an infantry officer and am shooting for the 2011 LS Class, either TX, DC, PA, or MA.
Would love to connect and get some feedback: on the change in scenery/atmosphere, possible "military friendly" schools, and the reliability of 9/11 GI Bill/Yellow Ribbon Program (or lack thereof).
Thanks. RLTW!

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bk1
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby bk1 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:22 am

2011 means graduating class of 2011, at least in the context of this subforum. You're looking for the entering class of 2011 or the class of 2014.

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jessedvhs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:35 am

Thanks, but away from archiving purposes, is proper designation really that important? Don't most TLSers just scan the "new" posts anyway? Reposting might be obnoxious. Again, still a "newbie."

Oban
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Oban » Fri Oct 15, 2010 11:47 am

I think most law schools are military friendly, It seems most have a few former members of the services in the class. The only negative thing about the military you are bound to hear is that their recruitment on campus violates every schools(well maybe not some certain southern/conservative schools) non discrimination policy. Aside from that no one is against anything military and it will probably give you a leg up in admissions and garner at bit more respect from your fellow students/professors.

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bk1
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby bk1 » Fri Oct 15, 2010 4:37 pm

jessedvhs wrote:Thanks, but away from archiving purposes, is proper designation really that important? Don't most TLSers just scan the "new" posts anyway? Reposting might be obnoxious. Again, still a "newbie."


Yes it is semi-important. No they don't necessarily.

It is because this subforum contains really only people talking about being class of 2011. They are 3L's with 3L concerns. The class of 2014 subforums contains primarily applicants with applicant concerns. As do most of the other subforums (i.e. LSAT, admissions, etc).

Reposting would be fine because it is in the wrong area. I'm saying this because you posting it here isn't going to garner much responses primarily because of the subforum that it is in.

bigben
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby bigben » Sat Oct 16, 2010 12:05 pm

I'm not military, but I've heard that it plays extremely well in law firm interviews. Use it to sell yourself as disciplined, dedicated, etc.

Also, I think Harvard has scholarships just for military people and reserves a specific number of seats in the class for military.

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jessedvhs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Sat Oct 16, 2010 4:11 pm

Well, that's encouraging, thanks. The experience definitely helped in securing offers for management roles coming out.

I suppose I had an unwarranted theory that the more conservative or liberal the region/area, the more or less admissions would be welcoming of veterans to their respective school such as Texas or UGA or the latter being Colorado Boulder or Berkeley, etc. The amounts some schools give back to the VA in the Yellow Ribbon even seem to reflect—Texas topping the list with 1,471 per credit hr/in state.
Oban, I can attest that even after serving for a 6 year bid, I am still wary of recruiters, 95% being car salesman types. Ha. It's a personal journey, not unlike LS I suppose.

mala2
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby mala2 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:16 am

I just got out of the army and I'm also applying for the fall of 2011. I think most schools are military friendly, but there are a lot of people with different experiences, such as Peace Corps, that are also valued. I don't think looking at Yellow Ribbon contributions by the numbers is going to give you an accurate view since it all depends on tuition charged anyway. There are several states that don't even charge veterans tuition.

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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Ascend » Wed Oct 20, 2010 10:16 am

I'm former Army and unfortunately I've found out that my military experience is going to end up hurting me way more than it helps. As a lab tech I never consented nor signed up for any credits from GWU (nor set foot on their campus), but because some officer thought he was doing me and all my fellow techs a favor, the Army worked out a deal with GWU for 60 hrs of generic lab credits. Since most of my MOS courses were pass/fail, if you passed, the scores were reported as "B"s, so my 3.93 GPA that I've earned over the past four years is being decimated by 60 hrs from a school I've never been to, never signed up for, and never consented to having a transcript from.

Of course this kind of thing is typical BS for those of us who served, but none the less, it still never gets any easier to deal with.

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jessedvhs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Wed Oct 20, 2010 12:37 pm

mala2,
This is true on the YRP, however, IF I am seeking a private LS that isn't participating versus one that is (or it's incredibly low for that matter), then it can help make the decision a bit easier (rankings, career prospects aside) as you would have to pay out of pocket or borrow for the difference. Running into the "red" and paying off any loan isn't fun. Regardless, the YRP is pretty ambiguous, the VA website stating..."all or a portion of the remaining balance could be paid." This is stated even though the YRP payback listed by every law school participating doesn't even come close to paying off the bottom line price tag. Am I missing something?

As for waiving tuition for vets, the only option I have read is for an in-state grant for Texas law schools (name escapes me/female type name I believe). However, you need to be a resident of the Lone Star State (which I am). Anything else I have read or heard is for the undergrad level, such as in Massachusetts. Maybe I am inaccurate on this. Do you know where can I find more info on it?

Ascend,
Sounds like a one big cluster f---k. A buddy of mine got an Associate's from some diploma mill U, due in part to transferring over his Basic Training and Intel Analyst AIT. It was funny looking at the diploma (character name from the old Beastie Boys "Sabotage" vid) but seems too good to be true to be legit. My fear is it can run you into problems, like you are now describing.

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casper13
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby casper13 » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:26 pm

jessedvhs wrote:mala2,
This is true on the YRP, however, IF I am seeking a private LS that isn't participating versus one that is (or it's incredibly low for that matter), then it can help make the decision a bit easier (rankings, career prospects aside) as you would have to pay out of pocket or borrow for the difference. Running into the "red" and paying off any loan isn't fun. Regardless, the YRP is pretty ambiguous, the VA website stating..."all or a portion of the remaining balance could be paid." This is stated even though the YRP payback listed by every law school participating doesn't even come close to paying off the bottom line price tag. Am I missing something?

As for waiving tuition for vets, the only option I have read is for an in-state grant for Texas law schools (name escapes me/female type name I believe). However, you need to be a resident of the Lone Star State (which I am). Anything else I have read or heard is for the undergrad level, such as in Massachusetts. Maybe I am inaccurate on this. Do you know where can I find more info on it?

Ascend,
Sounds like a one big cluster f---k. A buddy of mine got an Associate's from some diploma mill U, due in part to transferring over his Basic Training and Intel Analyst AIT. It was funny looking at the diploma (character name from the old Beastie Boys "Sabotage" vid) but seems too good to be true to be legit. My fear is it can run you into problems, like you are now describing.


Its the hazelwood act for Texas that waives tuition. Look it up and read about it. Almost wanted me to change residency and renew that texas license I had so many years ago (good ole Ft Hood) alas I just dont like texas that much to move me and my family back there. But being from there you probably love it because everyone from texas seems to love texas for some odd reason, I swear they brainwash you guys as kids to love the lone star state

As far as YRP for schools your best bet is to look what schools are giving the most towards yrp not really on a per credit hour basis as someone indicated. Some schools, i.e. UCLA, give full tution for YRP.

Oh and current army soldier here also, yet I am from the backbone of the army corp myself.

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jessedvhs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:54 pm

Don't supply guys say that? Just kidding. I was an NCO before dropping the OCS packet and going to the "dark side." Hazelwood Act, that's right! Thanks for the advice. Barring the steers n' queers joke, not originally from Texas, moved for employment with the better half last year--actually a "damn yankee" by blood (haven't met a Temple Owl in TX yet). Have definitely witnessed a lot of Texan pride chest pounding. I'll continue to rock the Yanks hat, although it may be tough if we drop 4 straight to TX and lose the ALCS.

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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby tranquil » Wed Oct 20, 2010 5:11 pm

Also something to keep in mind regarding funding:

Apparently there is a bill still in the committee stage to improve/alter GI Bill benefits. As of right now, tuition at an undergraduate public school is fully covered by the GI Bill. The tuition for graduate public school programs is often much more expensive. This improved version would fully fund graduate tuition at all public schools. Sounds pretty good.

http://www.military.com/features/0,1524 ... ESRC=mr.nl

"Here are more details:

-- The revised GI bill would fully cover tuition and fees for all in-state degree programs including doctorates or graduate degrees. Removed would be a cap tied to the most costly in-state undergraduate degree program.

-- Payments to private or non-state colleges would be simplified using an identical $20,000 cap across all states. Private college payments no longer would capped at the highest priced in-state school. This would raise veterans' assistance in 45 states and clarify for private colleges the point at which standard GI Bill coverage stops and the new for additional assistance using the Yellow-Ribbon feature starts. The $20,000 ceiling would be adjusted every August 1 to reflect changes in education costs nationwide."

Ascend
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Ascend » Wed Oct 20, 2010 7:50 pm

Texas is actually pretty picky on it's classification of what they consider a "Texas vet." Last I checked, you had to have actually been a resident of the state when you entered duty in order to be considered a TX vet. Kinda sucks for a lot of us who have called TX home for most of our lives. I served more active duty time in Texas than any other state, plus I have been a resident of TX now longer than any other state I've lived in (15+ years) but I still don't qualify as a TX vet :(

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jessedvhs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Thu Oct 21, 2010 11:19 am

Wow! That is really encouraging. This 9/11 GI Bill is ever-changing and hard to stay current on the news (or rumors). I was waiting to hear this and must have missed it. When I usually see current proposed changes they don't pertain to me (Voc rehab, dependant coverage, etc), I do the proverbial "slip away." Undoubtedly, I commend Jim Webb (D-VA) and Chuck Hagel (R-NE) for getting this through on-time and without much resistance. However, we're witnessing these issues pop up as they didn't place into consideration the diverse needs of each and every veteran student (e.g. a veteran who wants to go to a graduate school, private institution-out of state).
Ascend, where in TX are you located? If you can recite the "Deep in the Heart of Texas" chorus (see: Pee-Wee's Big Adventure) you should be counted.

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Paichka
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Paichka » Thu Oct 21, 2010 6:55 pm

Hey hey,

I'm a current Army officer 2L at GW. I'm in the Funded Legal Education Program, so I'm all set to be a JAG provided I graduate and pass the bar. I can't speak for every DC school, but I know that GW is incredibly military friendly. Many of the professors are former military, some currently serve in the reserves, and we have a healthy components of current and former military students. I believe Georgetown is the same way...I have another FLEP buddy who goes there. DC is a great place to be...and if you've been deployed, honestly, the time commitment to law school is cake compared to the awesomeness that was the Sandbox.

- Pai

Ascend
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Ascend » Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:41 pm

I'm in the DFW area. I'm actually a chapter 31 student and from the research I've been doing I'm hoping that I can get my Voc Rehab counselor to change my re-employment goal to help pay for law school. I only recently found out that you can actually go beyond the 48 months eligibility in some cases in order to meet an employment goal. Though I hate to dip into the educational budget more than necessary because I know personally how hard it is to get funding, I have always planned on doing as much pro bono work for veterans as humanly possible, so I'm pretty confident that the cosmic karma will balance out in the end. Plus, quite honestly, at 100% disability, it's much cheaper for the VA to get me into a career than to pay me disability plus benefits for the next 30 years.

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jessedvhs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby jessedvhs » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:50 pm

Paichka wrote:Hey hey,

I'm a current Army officer 2L at GW. I'm in the Funded Legal Education Program, so I'm all set to be a JAG provided I graduate and pass the bar. I can't speak for every DC school, but I know that GW is incredibly military friendly. Many of the professors are former military, some currently serve in the reserves, and we have a healthy components of current and former military students. I believe Georgetown is the same way...I have another FLEP buddy who goes there. DC is a great place to be...and if you've been deployed, honestly, the time commitment to law school is cake compared to the awesomeness that was the Sandbox.

- Pai


That's great news! I definitely have GW and G'town in my LOS; maybe will end up a Hoya by next fall if all goes well. Best of luck with FLEP and congrats in getting in as I hear it is a very selective process. My buddy got accepted last year and is currently a 1L at W&M. Everyone's take on the Sandbox was different but all agree in a constant level of sh---ness. For myself, Mosul resembled a drive around North Philly, with low income row homes, narrow streets, low hanging power lines, and abandoned vehicles (but minus the Lebron James rooftop jumpers of RKG-3's from our "friendly" local insurgency).

hasmith
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby hasmith » Fri Oct 22, 2010 1:55 pm

I'll chime in. Former Active Duty Navy, transitioned into the reserves to attend law school. I finish this year. It has been 4 long years but it has been worth it. Also, just found out I picked up O4, which is nice.

Ascend
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Ascend » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:27 pm

hasmith wrote:I'll chime in. Former Active Duty Navy, transitioned into the reserves to attend law school. I finish this year. It has been 4 long years but it has been worth it. Also, just found out I picked up O4, which is nice.


Congrats hasmith, were you an officer prior to law school or did the Navy make you an 04 straight out of law school? If I remember correctly, it seems the army used to bring attorneys in at either 02 or 03 depending on experience.

mala2
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby mala2 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:20 am

yeah you go in as an O2 unless you have years in service

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Wanpsack1
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Wanpsack1 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:05 pm

I don't know that I can be considered a "Hooah" since the Marines are more "Oorahs" but I am currently an active duty Marine, (possibly) leaving the Marines next year to go to Michigan. I have a packet in right now for one of the Legal Education Programs. I won't find out until January whether the Marines will be sending me to school or if I will be going as a civilian.

When applying to schools I did a lot of excel spreadsheeting of schools tuitions/GI Bill contributions/YRP contributions. I found that there are a lot of schools where there is the possibility of the GI Bill/YRP paying for everything (Michigan being one). There are also a good number of schools where GI Bill/YRP brings the total cost below 10K. That does not mean that the school will actually give you one of the YRP scholarships, just that they can.

They way it works is GI bill pays up to a point, the school can donate UP TO half of the remaining tuition costs with the VA matching that, which is full tuition. Talking to the dean of the Michigan Law school, the Dean of the University is very big into supporting the military and they even have a whole department on campus dedicated to ensuring the smooth transition of military in and out (GI Bill/YRP/Support groups/etc). They are also very supportive of those who want to stay in the reserves and are OK with holding your spots and not penalizing you if you get called up. He also strong arms the graduate schools into funding the YRP scholarships, too.

As for Texas, if you weren't classified as a resident when you joined, good luck. They have to (by law) take about 75% of their incoming class from residents (just talking off the top of my head, the percentage might be off).

w105wrs
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby w105wrs » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:09 pm

Hey other military types. Im an infantry officer assigned to Fort Richardson. Applied for FLEP, still waiting on my October lsat score sometime in the next day or two. Infantry, deployed to Afghanistan, the jewel of southwest asia. My reaches will be Ohio State and W&M. Most likely Cinci or UK. I welcome any tips and Ill keep reading from you guys further down the trail. RLTW! and remember to always keep your feet and knees together.

armymom
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby armymom » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:18 pm

Former military here too applying for Fall 2011. I served 5 years as a paralegal (27D), and I'm currently a DOD civilian in the JAG office. Baylor and UT are my only options, since my husband will be stationed at Hood next year.

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Paichka
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Re: Former military "hooahs" turned law students/lawyers?

Postby Paichka » Thu Oct 28, 2010 2:26 pm

W&M is incredibly FLEP friendly. I found out I got accepted into the program, and the next day I got my acceptance to W&M. I swear they have TJAG on speed-dial down there. A healthy chunk of each year's FLEP students go to W&M...I think 10 or 15 from my class go there, because tuition is below the $20,000 cap so you don't have to jump through hoops negotiating scholarships and reductions with the school.




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