Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

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boeh
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Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby boeh » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:32 pm

I'm partially through the process of applying, but honestly I am not really all that certain that I actually want to practice once I graduate. Is there anyone else in that(or a similar) boat? Any ideas on job prospects (be they helped or hindered) for JDs who haven't taken the bar? Has anyone else on this board (intentionally) gone down this path? Or planning to do so?

A little BG: [Out of school for 7 years, 171 LSAT, low GPA, (below 3.0) @Ivy, so I think (hope?) I have a realistic shot at (at least?) 2nd tier.] I wanted to go into law when I was younger, but I have two brothers who are practicing lawyers who are definitely not happy with it, so now I am not sure if I actually would want to practice. But perhaps the economy, or more specifically the perceived glut of lawyers, could change. Also, I could conceivably change my mind after actually attending school and decide I would enjoy practicing. Or both. Or neither, in which case, I am basically asking opinions on whether the degree is a decent basis for anything other than the straight up practice of law.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Thanks!

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paratactical
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby paratactical » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:34 pm

I'm curious as to how you intend to get a job that will pay off your law school debt without being a lawyer.

The general consensus around TLS is that there are a very limited number of jobs that aren't "being a lawyer" and they are incredibly difficult to get jobs that most people don't get into until after years of practicing.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Oct 12, 2010 1:37 pm

Why do your two brothers not enjoy the practice of law ? Have they offered advice to you on this topic ?

Seven years of post college work experience & an LSAT score of 171 are strong indicators that you are capable and may result in many scholarship offers despite your low GPA.

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existenz
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby existenz » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:19 pm

boeh wrote:I'm partially through the process of applying, but honestly I am not really all that certain that I actually want to practice once I graduate. Is there anyone else in that(or a similar) boat? Any ideas on job prospects (be they helped or hindered) for JDs who haven't taken the bar? Has anyone else on this board (intentionally) gone down this path? Or planning to do so?

A little BG: [Out of school for 7 years, 171 LSAT, low GPA, (below 3.0) @Ivy, so I think (hope?) I have a realistic shot at (at least?) 2nd tier.] I wanted to go into law when I was younger, but I have two brothers who are practicing lawyers who are definitely not happy with it, so now I am not sure if I actually would want to practice. But perhaps the economy, or more specifically the perceived glut of lawyers, could change. Also, I could conceivably change my mind after actually attending school and decide I would enjoy practicing. Or both. Or neither, in which case, I am basically asking opinions on whether the degree is a decent basis for anything other than the straight up practice of law.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Thanks!

Hi there. I've actually gone down this path, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I graduated law school about five years ago. Like you I'd heard nightmare stories about actually practicing. These worries were confirmed while doing my SA. I was at a V100 firm in NYC and the lawyers there were miserable. I knew that wasn't the life for me.

When I graduated (from a T14) I had about $120k in debt. I had an offer from my firm, but turned it down. Instead, I applied for a job at the local Waste Management company here in Fort Worth. I have an uncle who made a career out of this, he seemed to love it, so I dove right in. Granted getting a position as a garbage man isn't easy, but the work is regular, the pay is good, and the benefits easily match up with what you'll find at a top law firm.

Obviously you could say that you don't want to be picking up smelly trash bags all day, but honestly we have machines that do the lifting now. Except for those days when I have to throw on the jumpsuit and clean the inside of the truck, I'm never that dirty. And please note that you don't have to be a garbage man. The post office, city management, various Federal jobs, law enforcement and firefighting all offer similar career possibilities.

tl;dr - Enjoy law school, follow your heart, and picking up shit is actually preferable to shitlaw.

boeh
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby boeh » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:29 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Why do your two brothers not enjoy the practice of law ? Have they offered advice to you on this topic ?

Seven years of post college work experience & an LSAT score of 171 are strong indicators that you are capable and may result in many scholarship offers despite your low GPA.





The (main?) reason my brothers are disappointed is they are actually having trouble finding work (surprising as this is, ITE:) ). One tried hanging his own shingle, and couldn't generate enough work to make it work (and is now doing shitlaw for the military). The other has just graduated and can't find a job, anywhere. Actually he said I shouldn't even bother with LS; the other said I should, although he quite honestly wasn't really doing too terribly hot for himself. Like I said though, I am just curious what the consensus is. When my older brother was graduating law school, I recall at least one of his classmates went right onto wall street, although I don't know if this is common anymore (or even was then).

CanadianWolf
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:32 pm

Without a definite non-legal career goal, then getting an MBA may be a better option than law school.

I am interested in reading about those that have taken both the LSAT & the GMAT within the past several years. With seven years of work experience, you should be a strong candidate for highly regarded business schools.

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Jackie O
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby Jackie O » Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:49 pm

I'm currently in law school, but I'm not sure I'll practice as a lawyer after I graduate. I already have a career where I make good money, and will probably continue to work here after I fail at getting a good law job. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right, even if you're digging yourself deeper in debt solely in hopes of finding a lawyer husband.

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existenz
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby existenz » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:23 pm

Jackie O wrote:I'm currently in law school, but I'm not sure I'll practice as a lawyer after I graduate. I already have a career where I make good money, and will probably continue to work here after I fail at getting a good law job. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right, even if you're digging yourself deeper in debt solely in hopes of finding a lawyer husband.

The problem with your plan is law school debt x 2 if you end up with a lawyer husband.

How will he be able to afford paying off twice as much debt while you maintain your current job at Chick-fil-A?

r6_philly
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby r6_philly » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:31 pm

existenz wrote:
Jackie O wrote:I'm currently in law school, but I'm not sure I'll practice as a lawyer after I graduate. I already have a career where I make good money, and will probably continue to work here after I fail at getting a good law job. Sometimes you just have to do what feels right, even if you're digging yourself deeper in debt solely in hopes of finding a lawyer husband.

The problem with your plan is law school debt x 2 if you end up with a lawyer husband.

How will he be able to afford paying off twice as much debt while you maintain your current job at Chick-fil-A?


At least she'd be sure to have Sundays off. Her husband on the other hand ...

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reasonable_man
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby reasonable_man » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:36 pm

All i heard was... I'm bored and don't know what to do and want to waste 150K and three years of my life...


Good plan.

1Levening2013
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby 1Levening2013 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 3:41 pm

well what are you doing now? i could be making too big of an assumption, but i'm assuming you are working? why don't you go to school at night, lessen the debt you will graduate with, and lessen the overall risk

Dukehopeful2
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby Dukehopeful2 » Tue Oct 12, 2010 4:19 pm

boeh wrote:I'm partially through the process of applying, but honestly I am not really all that certain that I actually want to practice once I graduate. Is there anyone else in that(or a similar) boat? Any ideas on job prospects (be they helped or hindered) for JDs who haven't taken the bar? Has anyone else on this board (intentionally) gone down this path? Or planning to do so?

A little BG: [Out of school for 7 years, 171 LSAT, low GPA, (below 3.0) @Ivy, so I think (hope?) I have a realistic shot at (at least?) 2nd tier.] I wanted to go into law when I was younger, but I have two brothers who are practicing lawyers who are definitely not happy with it, so now I am not sure if I actually would want to practice. But perhaps the economy, or more specifically the perceived glut of lawyers, could change. Also, I could conceivably change my mind after actually attending school and decide I would enjoy practicing. Or both. Or neither, in which case, I am basically asking opinions on whether the degree is a decent basis for anything other than the straight up practice of law.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Thanks!



I am going only to run for president... no other plans Ooo and for the free booze

nj05nets
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby nj05nets » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:14 pm

My cousin went to a lower T1 law school with plans to practice law, but decided about halfway through that he hated the law. He instead decided that after law school he would become a teacher. Everyone, including myself, thought he was crazy, but it has worked out well for him. He was accepted to Teach for America after graduating and is now teaching history at a high school in his first choice city. He started at the 9th level on the pay scale because he has a doctorate degree... he loves his job, makes 60k/yr, and has summers off. I think I remember him saying that he will get raises for each of the next ten years before maxing out at 90k/yr.

It should be noted that he lives/works in the new england area, which (i think) has higher teacher salaries than most places

I don't know if anyone would advise you to go to law school if you are 100% sure you don't want to practice, but there are examples that show that a law degree can be beneficial in other fields.

I am working on my applications now, and plan on being a lawyer, but if for whatever reason (cant get a job, or end up hating law) i decide to go in another direction a law degree will still (hopefully) help. My backup plan is to work as an NCAA compliance officer. I was a student-athlete in college and found the work the compliance department does really interesting. It is not essential to have a jd to get an entry level job, but it is a requirement for the more advanced positions.

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YCrevolution
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby YCrevolution » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:17 pm

..

boeh
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby boeh » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:29 pm

reasonable_man wrote:All i heard was... I'm bored and don't know what to do and want to waste 150K and three years of my life...


Good plan.


Not entirely untrue, but I am not going anywhere where I have to shell out 150K. This might limit me to state schools, which is fine as long as they aren't TTTs.

boeh
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby boeh » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:30 pm

1Levening2013 wrote:well what are you doing now? i could be making too big of an assumption, but i'm assuming you are working? why don't you go to school at night, lessen the debt you will graduate with, and lessen the overall risk


I would consider that, but I am working overseas, so no dice.

nj05nets
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby nj05nets » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:30 pm

I wouldn't say it is super easy, but just about every D1 and D2 school has a compliance department with multiple officers. having a jd would give you a huge advantage over other applicants (most who were probably sport management majors). One of the officers at my school went to law school at emory and took an entry level compliance position to get his foot in the door. He kept getting promoted within the department and just recently took a job at the ncaa headquarters.

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Whatisthis
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby Whatisthis » Tue Oct 12, 2010 6:31 pm

existenz wrote:
boeh wrote:I'm partially through the process of applying, but honestly I am not really all that certain that I actually want to practice once I graduate. Is there anyone else in that(or a similar) boat? Any ideas on job prospects (be they helped or hindered) for JDs who haven't taken the bar? Has anyone else on this board (intentionally) gone down this path? Or planning to do so?

A little BG: [Out of school for 7 years, 171 LSAT, low GPA, (below 3.0) @Ivy, so I think (hope?) I have a realistic shot at (at least?) 2nd tier.] I wanted to go into law when I was younger, but I have two brothers who are practicing lawyers who are definitely not happy with it, so now I am not sure if I actually would want to practice. But perhaps the economy, or more specifically the perceived glut of lawyers, could change. Also, I could conceivably change my mind after actually attending school and decide I would enjoy practicing. Or both. Or neither, in which case, I am basically asking opinions on whether the degree is a decent basis for anything other than the straight up practice of law.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Thanks!

Hi there. I've actually gone down this path, so I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I graduated law school about five years ago. Like you I'd heard nightmare stories about actually practicing. These worries were confirmed while doing my SA. I was at a V100 firm in NYC and the lawyers there were miserable. I knew that wasn't the life for me.

When I graduated (from a T14) I had about $120k in debt. I had an offer from my firm, but turned it down. Instead, I applied for a job at the local Waste Management company here in Fort Worth. I have an uncle who made a career out of this, he seemed to love it, so I dove right in. Granted getting a position as a garbage man isn't easy, but the work is regular, the pay is good, and the benefits easily match up with what you'll find at a top law firm.

Obviously you could say that you don't want to be picking up smelly trash bags all day, but honestly we have machines that do the lifting now. Except for those days when I have to throw on the jumpsuit and clean the inside of the truck, I'm never that dirty. And please note that you don't have to be a garbage man. The post office, city management, various Federal jobs, law enforcement and firefighting all offer similar career possibilities.

tl;dr - Enjoy law school, follow your heart, and picking up shit is actually preferable to shitlaw.



I know you're not serious, but if you were, you'd be my hero... very inspirational stuff :D

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Other25BeforeYou
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby Other25BeforeYou » Wed Oct 13, 2010 9:54 am

boeh wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:All i heard was... I'm bored and don't know what to do and want to waste 150K and three years of my life...


Good plan.


Not entirely untrue, but I am not going anywhere where I have to shell out 150K. This might limit me to state schools, which is fine as long as they aren't TTTs.

Why do you care if the school is third tier? Law school is fun and challenging and interesting, and I'd probably go even if I didn't want to practice because I find it fascinating. But if I didn't want to practice, I'd go to whichever school gave me the most scholarship money, prestige be damned.

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ArchRoark
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby ArchRoark » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:25 am

paratactical wrote:I'm curious as to how you intend to get a job that will pay off your law school debt without being a lawyer.

The general consensus around TLS is that there are a very limited number of jobs that aren't "being a lawyer" and they are incredibly difficult to get jobs that most people don't get into until after years of practicing.


IBR caps payments at 15% of your income. Even if you will be paying off your loans for ostensibly the rest of your life... it still makes a huge debt load manageable.

If I find out during my 2L SA position (if I am that lucky) or from my law school classes that I hate practicing law I will probably pursue a career teaching. The skills you learn in law school (e.g. quality/clear/concise writing) should be applicable to a number of different careers. Law school may not "open" a lot of doors, but I have a hard time believing that it closes any.

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rayiner
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby rayiner » Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:27 am

boeh wrote:I'm partially through the process of applying, but honestly I am not really all that certain that I actually want to practice once I graduate. Is there anyone else in that(or a similar) boat? Any ideas on job prospects (be they helped or hindered) for JDs who haven't taken the bar? Has anyone else on this board (intentionally) gone down this path? Or planning to do so?

A little BG: [Out of school for 7 years, 171 LSAT, low GPA, (below 3.0) @Ivy, so I think (hope?) I have a realistic shot at (at least?) 2nd tier.] I wanted to go into law when I was younger, but I have two brothers who are practicing lawyers who are definitely not happy with it, so now I am not sure if I actually would want to practice. But perhaps the economy, or more specifically the perceived glut of lawyers, could change. Also, I could conceivably change my mind after actually attending school and decide I would enjoy practicing. Or both. Or neither, in which case, I am basically asking opinions on whether the degree is a decent basis for anything other than the straight up practice of law.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Thanks!


You have a shot at T14 (NU, GULC, UVA, Penn in decreasing order) and are guaranteed to get a T25.

boeh
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby boeh » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:32 am

Other25BeforeYou wrote:
boeh wrote:
reasonable_man wrote:All i heard was... I'm bored and don't know what to do and want to waste 150K and three years of my life...


Good plan.


Not entirely untrue, but I am not going anywhere where I have to shell out 150K. This might limit me to state schools, which is fine as long as they aren't TTTs.

Why do you care if the school is third tier? Law school is fun and challenging and interesting, and I'd probably go even if I didn't want to practice because I find it fascinating. But if I didn't want to practice, I'd go to whichever school gave me the most scholarship money, prestige be damned.


I would normally, for the reasons you mentioned (and 'cause I love to save money at least as much as the next guy) but, if on the off chance I do decide I really like law and want to practice at some point in the future, I want to have some actual job prospects, which I see as being at least somewhat unlikely in 3/4 tiers, outside of perhaps a few local markets. At this point, my GPA limits me to some degree, so I might only be able to get in at the 2nd tier, and perhaps even a few of the lower 1st tier.

boeh
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby boeh » Thu Oct 14, 2010 10:35 am

rayiner wrote:
boeh wrote:I'm partially through the process of applying, but honestly I am not really all that certain that I actually want to practice once I graduate. Is there anyone else in that(or a similar) boat? Any ideas on job prospects (be they helped or hindered) for JDs who haven't taken the bar? Has anyone else on this board (intentionally) gone down this path? Or planning to do so?

A little BG: [Out of school for 7 years, 171 LSAT, low GPA, (below 3.0) @Ivy, so I think (hope?) I have a realistic shot at (at least?) 2nd tier.] I wanted to go into law when I was younger, but I have two brothers who are practicing lawyers who are definitely not happy with it, so now I am not sure if I actually would want to practice. But perhaps the economy, or more specifically the perceived glut of lawyers, could change. Also, I could conceivably change my mind after actually attending school and decide I would enjoy practicing. Or both. Or neither, in which case, I am basically asking opinions on whether the degree is a decent basis for anything other than the straight up practice of law.

Anyone have any thoughts on the matter? Thanks!


You have a shot at T14 (NU, GULC, UVA, Penn in decreasing order) and are guaranteed to get a T25.


Thanks. I appreciate the vote of confidence.

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hellojd
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Re: Is anyone planning on LS with no intention of practicing?

Postby hellojd » Thu Oct 14, 2010 11:43 am

CanadianWolf wrote:Without a definite non-legal career goal, then getting an MBA may be a better option than law school.

I am interested in reading about those that have taken both the LSAT & the GMAT within the past several years. With seven years of work experience, you should be a strong candidate for highly regarded business schools.


*raises hand*

What're you interested in knowing (I've taken both within the last year)?




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