How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

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rundoxierun
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:45 pm

haha I have a friend who is graduating this semester(his 13th semester) and plans on going to Harvard Law. He spent the last two semesters mixing in the retaking of a bunch of intro classes to "raise" his gpa. He was so confident that I didnt even want to waste my time telling him both grades count. Also, after declaring he was going to Harvard law, he asked me what kind of questions were on the LSAT.

There are A LOT of these ppl out there. Leave them alone. Two defining characteristics of our generation are severe negative response to criticism and extreme optimism(im not making that up, straight from a consulting firm).

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im_blue
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby im_blue » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:45 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Yeah...really don't feel comfortable with just letting my best friend learn her lesson when she gets dinged. That's how it was for me during undergrad admissions and I don't wish that feeling upon anyone. I feel like as a friend I should at least try to protect her from that outcome. I'll take the advice of posters and suggest that she apply to "safety schools."

im_blue wrote:...she probably won't listen to you either way due to her inferiority complex.


I really hope this isn't the case...I don't want her to think that she's competing with me or something.

... do you not understand how girls work? Everything is a competition!

savagecheater
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby savagecheater » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:49 pm

What happens when she thinks that just going to law school = NY to $190k!!!! ?

I mean, reality has to hit at some point.

I know your predicament Gaia; I have 2 friends from UG that are applying that I have repeatedly discouraged. You literally just have to let them run into the wall and pick themselves up again.

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gdane
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby gdane » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:51 pm

tkgrrett wrote:haha I have a friend who is graduating this semester(his 13th semester) and plans on going to Harvard Law. He spent the last two semesters mixing in the retaking of a bunch of intro classes to "raise" his gpa. He was so confident that I didnt even want to waste my time telling him both grades count. Also, after declaring he was going to Harvard law, he asked me what kind of questions were on the LSAT.

There are A LOT of these ppl out there. Leave them alone. Two defining characteristics of our generation are severe negative response to criticism and extreme optimism(im not making that up, straight from a consulting firm).

This is very true. Parents, and to a larger extent "society", have coddled this generation way too much. You cant tell anyone anything without them getting mad or offended.

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JG Hall
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby JG Hall » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:56 pm

gdane5 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:haha I have a friend who is graduating this semester(his 13th semester) and plans on going to Harvard Law. He spent the last two semesters mixing in the retaking of a bunch of intro classes to "raise" his gpa. He was so confident that I didnt even want to waste my time telling him both grades count. Also, after declaring he was going to Harvard law, he asked me what kind of questions were on the LSAT.

There are A LOT of these ppl out there. Leave them alone. Two defining characteristics of our generation are severe negative response to criticism and extreme optimism(im not making that up, straight from a consulting firm).

This is very true. Parents, and to a larger extent "society", have coddled this generation way too much. You cant tell anyone anything without them getting mad or offended.

America's Got Confidence (just not skills/abilities)

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20121109
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby 20121109 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 9:58 pm

im_blue wrote:
GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Yeah...really don't feel comfortable with just letting my best friend learn her lesson when she gets dinged. That's how it was for me during undergrad admissions and I don't wish that feeling upon anyone. I feel like as a friend I should at least try to protect her from that outcome. I'll take the advice of posters and suggest that she apply to "safety schools."
im_blue wrote:...she probably won't listen to you either way due to her inferiority complex.


I really hope this isn't the case...I don't want her to think that she's competing with me or something.

... do you not understand how girls work? Everything is a competition!


You may have a point, lol...but all of my friends went to a better undergrad than I did. I'm just now catching up...maybe she thinks she might have lost her lead?

savagecheater wrote:I mean, reality has to hit at some point.

I know your predicament Gaia; I have 2 friends from UG that are applying that I have repeatedly discouraged. You literally just have to let them run into the wall and pick themselves up again.


How did you tell your friends? Were they just that obstinate?

rundoxierun
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby rundoxierun » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:01 pm

JG Hall wrote:
gdane5 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:haha I have a friend who is graduating this semester(his 13th semester) and plans on going to Harvard Law. He spent the last two semesters mixing in the retaking of a bunch of intro classes to "raise" his gpa. He was so confident that I didnt even want to waste my time telling him both grades count. Also, after declaring he was going to Harvard law, he asked me what kind of questions were on the LSAT.

There are A LOT of these ppl out there. Leave them alone. Two defining characteristics of our generation are severe negative response to criticism and extreme optimism(im not making that up, straight from a consulting firm).

This is very true. Parents, and to a larger extent "society", have coddled this generation way too much. You cant tell anyone anything without them getting mad or offended.

America's Got Confidence (just not skills/abilities)


Yeah.. I was invited to a meeting/breakfast with two CEOs from large corporations in my region and they spent literally 30-45 minutes just ripping our generation(not us attendees of course, we were the "exceptions" lol) and reading reports from their consulting firm regarding baby boomers vs gen x vs gen y.

r6_philly
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby r6_philly » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:04 pm

You are not responsible for her life. If she will not live life rationally, there is nothing you could do about it and there is nothing you should do about it. It is her choice since she is an adult. Being a good friend means doing what you have been doing: showing her the all the relevant in the world - in hope that she will make the right estimation. We can't even make sure our own kids have the right expectations, all we can do is try. Your friend is grown enough to be able to digest information properly. If she can't, she'd have a tough time in law school, and in real life after any kind of school.

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gdane
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby gdane » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:05 pm

This board exemplifies a lot of whats wrong with this generation. There are some people here that are just so self entitled and believe that because they go to X school, they should automatically have it all. Noone wants to "earn their stripes" anymore. Theres something wrong about that...

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DavidYurman85
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby DavidYurman85 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:07 pm

i have no idea if this has already been posted, but direct her to tls. send her an email telling her how this site helped you out a great deal when you were submitting apps. hopefully, if she checks it out a bit, she'll get a reality check.

Dukehopeful2
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby Dukehopeful2 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:08 pm

I think people used to think the same thing about me when I told people I was going to get into Duke medical school with a 3.4 and only 150 service hours. Now though that I dropped organic chem and am shooting for duke law I might have a chance :twisted: .

r6_philly
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby r6_philly » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:08 pm

gdane5 wrote:This board exemplifies a lot of whats wrong with this generation. There are some people here that are just so self entitled and believe that because they go to X school, they should automatically have it all. Noone wants to "earn their stripes" anymore. Theres something wrong about that...


Agreed. A lot of privileged people here. Funny thing is they don't think so, but from my vantage point ...

tazmolover
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby tazmolover » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:18 pm

Dukehopeful2 wrote:I think people used to think the same thing about me when I told people I was going to get into Duke medical school with a 3.4 and only 150 service hours. Now though that I dropped organic chem and am shooting for duke law I might have a chance :twisted: .

3.4? better ace the lsat

Dukehopeful2
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby Dukehopeful2 » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:25 pm

tazmolover wrote:
Dukehopeful2 wrote:I think people used to think the same thing about me when I told people I was going to get into Duke medical school with a 3.4 and only 150 service hours. Now though that I dropped organic chem and am shooting for duke law I might have a chance :twisted: .

3.4? better ace the lsat

I hope so hence the hopeful

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Sentry
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby Sentry » Sun Oct 10, 2010 10:55 pm

gdane5 wrote:This board exemplifies a lot of whats wrong with this generation. There are some people here that are just so self entitled and believe that because they go to X school, they should automatically have it all. Noone wants to "earn their stripes" anymore. Theres something wrong about that...

I think there's a difference between "earning your stripes" and being 200k in debt with not a lot of job prospects.

czelede
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby czelede » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:57 am

I have a friend who was in (almost) the exact same situation, but with regards to graduate school. I think this problem really just comes from people being sheltered and not realizing how many qualified, extraordinary applicants they're competing against. It has so much to do with the tendency to coddle kids and make them feel they're such special snowflakes, but the end result is that the things you say will probably fall on deaf ears - and she will definitely not like hearing it, anyhow.

I think the best thing you can do for her is to let her spend that money and learn the lesson for herself - but at the same time make sure she applies to a lot of safeties, so it doesn't screw her over in the end. It's a lesson she needs to learn, because despite all the evidence you can provide her most people like that (re: delusional) will go down clinging to that dream to the very end. If she really doesn't want to face reality, tell her that the economy is tough and she needs to apply broadly; tell her she has a chance at $ from lower schools and she can use it to leverage higher schools (okay so this is a blatant lie), basically tell her anything and everything to make sure she applies to at least some schools she could get into and would be okay coming out of. Then just sit back and wait for her to learn about life come March/April.

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LAWLAW09
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby LAWLAW09 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:47 pm

Americans unfortunately don't realize how often and to what degree previous generations didn't earn their stripes. I can't think of any generation, range of years, etc where Americans outright "earned" their stripes.

rundoxierun
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:52 pm

LAWLAW09 wrote:Americans unfortunately don't realize how often and to what degree previous generations didn't earn their stripes. I can't think of any generation, range of years, etc where Americans outright "earned" their stripes.

Umm.. Exactly what point are you attempting to make here? I'm interested to see where this one goes.

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beachbum
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby beachbum » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:56 pm

Dukehopeful2 wrote:
tazmolover wrote:
Dukehopeful2 wrote:I think people used to think the same thing about me when I told people I was going to get into Duke medical school with a 3.4 and only 150 service hours. Now though that I dropped organic chem and am shooting for duke law I might have a chance :twisted: .

3.4? better ace the lsat

I hope so hence the hopeful


3.4/170 here who will be EDing to Duke. Stranger things have happened.

To the OP: I have to agree with a lot of the recent advice in this thread: there's only so much you can (and should) do, and at a certain point you have to just let her go. If it was my friend, I'd calmly explain to her how competitive top schools can be, and that the most qualified applicants in the country are pining for these schools- but there are only so many seats available. I'd direct to her to the relevant sites (LSN, LSP, TLS) and relevant literature (Ivey Guide, Montauk's book) and let her run with it. If she's still confident that she can make it at the top schools, then let the process work itself out. Truth will be dispensed in a small envelope.

jarofsoup
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby jarofsoup » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:06 pm

Encourage her to apply to "safeties" that she can actually get into. Then when she gets rejected to Cornell she will be so happy that she got into Fordham.

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paratactical
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby paratactical » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:12 pm

Gaia,

I had a friend with this same delusion ("My numbers aren't great, but I can go to Harvard!") and I assisted in ending it by going "zOMG, look at the resumes from these Harvard kids and their numbers were better than yours!" and attaching several of those redonk resumes. It's a good way to say well, sure, there's more to it than numbers and look at what "more to it" the people you're competing with have.

Good luck.

bostonboy870
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby bostonboy870 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:12 pm

jarofsoup wrote:Encourage her to apply to "safeties" that she can actually get into. Then when she gets rejected to Cornell she will be so happy that she got into Fordham.

With a 165/3.25, she'd be lucky to get into Fordham.

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SullaFelix
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby SullaFelix » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:19 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:Americans unfortunately don't realize how often and to what degree previous generations didn't earn their stripes. I can't think of any generation, range of years, etc where Americans outright "earned" their stripes.

Umm.. Exactly what point are you attempting to make here? I'm interested to see where this one goes.


Actually, I do see his point. American universities are filled by more qualified and accomplished attendees than ever before. Say what you will about a generational sense of entitlement, but the phenomenon of not having a large swath of potential applicants disqualified from the get-go due ethnicity or a lack of connections is still shockingly new. (And the fact that we seem to have immediately forgotten this is depressing.)

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LAWLAW09
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby LAWLAW09 » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:24 pm

tkgrrett wrote:
LAWLAW09 wrote:Americans unfortunately don't realize how often and to what degree previous generations didn't earn their stripes. I can't think of any generation, range of years, etc where Americans outright "earned" their stripes.

Umm.. Exactly what point are you attempting to make here? I'm interested to see where this one goes.



I was responding to the point that you and a few others begin to make.


gdane5 wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
Two defining characteristics of our generation are severe negative response to criticism


This is very true. Parents, and to a larger extent "society", have coddled this generation way too much. You cant tell anyone anything without them getting mad or offended.


gdane5 wrote:This board exemplifies a lot of [b]whats wrong with this generation. There are some people here that are just so self entitled[/b] and believe that because they go to X school, they should automatically have it all. Noone wants to "earn their stripes" anymore. Theres something wrong about that...


r6_philly wrote:Agreed. A lot of privileged people here. Funny thing is they don't think so, but from my vantage point ...




Self-entitlement, an inability to recognize privilege, and severe negative response to criticism were cultural labels that yall were describing as a new phenomenon or as if they're generation-specific.

My post was: Americans unfortunately don't realize how often and to what degree previous generations didn't earn their stripes. I can't think of any generation, range of years, etc where Americans outright "earned" their stripes.

I'm not sure where this will go but including some facts might make it more interesting. lol

2011Law
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Re: How to let a close friend know she has little/no chance?

Postby 2011Law » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:45 pm

Damn, this is such an easy question. If it was, how to let your gf/bf know... or how to let an acquaintance know... it would require way more subtlety. But with a close friend, you should be able to be blunt when the times call for it. Your friend may actually be a little pissed at you for a little bit because you've shown her what an idiot she is and for being the bearer of bad news, but would you really rather see your friend be completely devastated when decisions come back? Just sit her down, show her LSN, LSP, certain tls threads, and make her realize that its a numbers game and she just doesn't have the numbers for CCN, though can still get into some t20s and 30s, and that ain't all that bad.

Its good to have dreams, but your friend is living on fantasy island. Get her out before she's swallowed by the sea.




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