URM - Gay?!

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HopefullyLaw
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URM - Gay?!

Postby HopefullyLaw » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:17 pm

I have read conflicting ideas and theories of what constitutes URM status. Does being gay count?

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Helmholtz
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:18 pm

lolno

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Grizz
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Grizz » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:18 pm

No. But write a diversity statement or something if you so desire.

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2014
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby 2014 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 6:19 pm

African American, Native American, Hispanic as in Mexican or Puerto Rican.

That's about it.

NJcollegestudent
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby NJcollegestudent » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:17 pm

I am not sure if this will be of much help, however, i do agree that it might not count as a urm in the traditional sense. I have seen, anecdotally, and in a very limited applications that some schools ask if you are of wish to identify yourself as either Gay, Lesbian or Bi-sexual. I am not sure whether it is for admissions purposes or for demographic information, however, that can best be answered by the admissions staff of the respective university.

whymeohgodno
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:20 pm

Totally.

shock259
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby shock259 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:24 pm

You could make a diversity statement about it, but you won't be a URM

BU2013
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby BU2013 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:31 pm

Not equivalent to URM status, but slight boost at UPenn, Cornell, BU

BU2013
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby BU2013 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:33 pm

And honestly, at some schools gays are an ORM like the asians.

d34d9823
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby d34d9823 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:38 pm

BU2013 wrote:And honestly, at some schools gays are an ORM like the asians.

"the" asians? Like they're a swarm of insects or something?

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kazu
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby kazu » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:39 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
BU2013 wrote:And honestly, at some schools gays are an ORM like the asians.

"the" asians? Like they're a swarm of insects or something?

:lol: :lol:

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MrKappus
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby MrKappus » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:40 pm

Not sure about OP's question, but People Who Don't Ask Stupid questions are definitely underrepresented. Doesn't sound like OP qualifies though.

Kretzy
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Kretzy » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:49 pm

BU2013 wrote:And honestly, at some schools gays are an ORM like the asians.


I'm at one of the gayest law schools in the nation, and this just isn't true. On either count.

BU2013
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby BU2013 » Mon Oct 04, 2010 9:59 pm

Kretzy wrote:
BU2013 wrote:And honestly, at some schools gays are an ORM like the asians.


I'm at one of the gayest law schools in the nation, and this just isn't true. On either count.


Your school is not as gay as mine. Or as asian.

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Drummingreg
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Drummingreg » Mon Oct 04, 2010 10:17 pm

...The number of 0Ls pretending to be gay would be staggering. :shock:

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whirledpeas86
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby whirledpeas86 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:36 am

A somewhat related question:

I'm a queer black female and I'm currently working on my diversity statement. I'm writing about the interactions of my various identities and how I face issues with acceptance due to conflicts amongst them (ie. racism in the gay community, rampant homophobia in the black community, sexism everywhere). However, if sexual/gender identity and expression aren't considered to be URMs, would I be wasting space to even mention it? Should I just focus on my racial identity, or do you all think my initial angle would be a good idea to help me stand out? And if it matters, I plan on tying in how my sexual orientation informs my decision to become lawyer and the type of law I hope to eventually practice.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Oct 05, 2010 7:38 am

Talk about it all in your diversity statement.

2011Law
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby 2011Law » Tue Oct 05, 2010 8:21 am

I might be wrong, but something tells me that gays aren't going to make up less of a percentage of law students than they do the general population. But maybe that's just cause I saw Philadelphia.

Pip
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Pip » Tue Oct 05, 2010 11:38 am

whirledpeas86 wrote:A somewhat related question:

I'm a queer black female and I'm currently working on my diversity statement. I'm writing about the interactions of my various identities and how I face issues with acceptance due to conflicts amongst them (ie. racism in the gay community, rampant homophobia in the black community, sexism everywhere). However, if sexual/gender identity and expression aren't considered to be URMs, would I be wasting space to even mention it? Should I just focus on my racial identity, or do you all think my initial angle would be a good idea to help me stand out? And if it matters, I plan on tying in how my sexual orientation informs my decision to become lawyer and the type of law I hope to eventually practice.


Wouldn't it make more sense to tailor your statement to individual schools... I can think of some schools where being gay might help you and can think of others where it probably wouldn't or might even hurt you. In the end I wouldn't assume that the people in admissions were beyond being bigots, and even if they weren't in general they might have issues with some groups of people... to that end it seems playing it safe is the best option and means only putting in things that will either help you (like being black) or couldn't hurt you. Putting that you are gay isn't going to help you, but it could hurt you depending on who is reading it.... but since law school don't classify gays as URM then it seems pointless to put it in.

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whirledpeas86
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby whirledpeas86 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:06 pm

Pip wrote:
whirledpeas86 wrote:A somewhat related question:

I'm a queer black female and I'm currently working on my diversity statement. I'm writing about the interactions of my various identities and how I face issues with acceptance due to conflicts amongst them (ie. racism in the gay community, rampant homophobia in the black community, sexism everywhere). However, if sexual/gender identity and expression aren't considered to be URMs, would I be wasting space to even mention it? Should I just focus on my racial identity, or do you all think my initial angle would be a good idea to help me stand out? And if it matters, I plan on tying in how my sexual orientation informs my decision to become lawyer and the type of law I hope to eventually practice.


Wouldn't it make more sense to tailor your statement to individual schools... I can think of some schools where being gay might help you and can think of others where it probably wouldn't or might even hurt you. In the end I wouldn't assume that the people in admissions were beyond being bigots, and even if they weren't in general they might have issues with some groups of people... to that end it seems playing it safe is the best option and means only putting in things that will either help you (like being black) or couldn't hurt you. Putting that you are gay isn't going to help you, but it could hurt you depending on who is reading it.... but since law school don't classify gays as URM then it seems pointless to put it in.


You know, I totally agree with you and did consider that possibility. However, I decided that I'd really rather not attend a school where I couldn't be out and active in the queer community. Why would I try to get in somewhere where they aren't happy to have me just as I am, you know? If the folks in admissions really were bigots, they'd have more than enough reason to reject me apart from my diversity statement.

Do you know any of the T20 in particular where disclosing my sexual orientation could hurt me? I've done some research on all of them and haven't found anything in particular, but that's not exactly the sort of thing schools would have readily available on their website :wink:

As for why I'm thinking about including it, I think it's compelling to explain how I've faced bigotry from people both outside and inside of my own community. For example, having to manage my blackness when I'm in a queer space. Or having to closet myself and hide my queerness when I'm a space dominated by straight people of color. Feeling like an outsider, in some respects, in several communities has made me a more independent person and more committed to being vocal in defending my own and others rights, if that makes any sense?

But yeah, this is still a question for me and I really appreciate your comments!

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blink
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby blink » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:10 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
BU2013 wrote:And honestly, at some schools gays are an ORM like the asians.

"the" asians? Like they're a swarm of insects or something?


swarm? hahaha no more like an asian invasion!

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sgtgrumbles
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby sgtgrumbles » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:34 pm

To whirledpeas86:

Um, I think you should absolutely include your sexual orientation. Not only does it clearly add to the diversity you're describing in your diversity statement, it appears to be an extremely crucial element (obviously) of your identity and factor in your personal/political/social development. Your personal statement sounds extremely bold and unique and I don't think you should do anything to lessen those qualities of it.

EDIT: I hope it was implicit that I don't think homophobic ad comm members are something you have to worry about. I don't doubt that deep-seated homophobia is widespread, but I certainly don't think it's something you have to worry about adversely affecting your law school applications.

Pip
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Pip » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:47 pm

whirledpeas86 wrote:
Pip wrote:
whirledpeas86 wrote:A somewhat related question:

I'm a queer black female and I'm currently working on my diversity statement. I'm writing about the interactions of my various identities and how I face issues with acceptance due to conflicts amongst them (ie. racism in the gay community, rampant homophobia in the black community, sexism everywhere). However, if sexual/gender identity and expression aren't considered to be URMs, would I be wasting space to even mention it? Should I just focus on my racial identity, or do you all think my initial angle would be a good idea to help me stand out? And if it matters, I plan on tying in how my sexual orientation informs my decision to become lawyer and the type of law I hope to eventually practice.


Wouldn't it make more sense to tailor your statement to individual schools... I can think of some schools where being gay might help you and can think of others where it probably wouldn't or might even hurt you. In the end I wouldn't assume that the people in admissions were beyond being bigots, and even if they weren't in general they might have issues with some groups of people... to that end it seems playing it safe is the best option and means only putting in things that will either help you (like being black) or couldn't hurt you. Putting that you are gay isn't going to help you, but it could hurt you depending on who is reading it.... but since law school don't classify gays as URM then it seems pointless to put it in.


You know, I totally agree with you and did consider that possibility. However, I decided that I'd really rather not attend a school where I couldn't be out and active in the queer community. Why would I try to get in somewhere where they aren't happy to have me just as I am, you know? If the folks in admissions really were bigots, they'd have more than enough reason to reject me apart from my diversity statement.

Do you know any of the T20 in particular where disclosing my sexual orientation could hurt me? I've done some research on all of them and haven't found anything in particular, but that's not exactly the sort of thing schools would have readily available on their website :wink:

As for why I'm thinking about including it, I think it's compelling to explain how I've faced bigotry from people both outside and inside of my own community. For example, having to manage my blackness when I'm in a queer space. Or having to closet myself and hide my queerness when I'm a space dominated by straight people of color. Feeling like an outsider, in some respects, in several communities has made me a more independent person and more committed to being vocal in defending my own and others rights, if that makes any sense?

But yeah, this is still a question for me and I really appreciate your comments!


The problem I see is beyond the school... You could find that even if you applied to one of the most open schools out there that the reader of your application is that one bigot... maybe a closeted bigot.. maybe he/she only has problems with gays. Bigots are not rarity, the only thing rare in academia is the open bigot.

But you could be at risk simply because you opened up about something that isn't going to absolutely help you. I say this because in my past experience I had a professor in grad school that came across as a model for being fair... yet having discussions with him outside of the school after I had graduated I have no doubt in my mind that he was an absolute bigot when it came to blacks... He basically stated that you could tell when a city was going to go down hill, based on when the city elected a black mayor where upon he rattled off several examples of cities that had seen decline and also had black mayors... To me it sounded like the view of a bigot, but from someone I would have never thought of as being one.

Understand that at some schools your application may have to get approval by more than just the reader in admissions... if that professor had been one reading your application I have no doubt he would have given it a thumbs down. So please, think long and hard about putting information out there that will not help but could hurt. You have no idea what is in the heart of the person that is reading your application.

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bk1
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby bk1 » Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:52 pm

Pip wrote:The problem I see is beyond the school... You could find that even if you applied to one of the most open schools out there that the reader of your application is that one bigot... maybe a closeted bigot.. maybe he/she only has problems with gays. Bigots are not rarity, the only thing rare in academia is the open bigot.

But you could be at risk simply because you opened up about something that isn't going to absolutely help you. I say this because in my past experience I had a professor in grad school that came across as a model for being fair... yet having discussions with him outside of the school after I had graduated I have no doubt in my mind that he was an absolute bigot when it came to blacks... He basically stated that you could tell when a city was going to go down hill, based on when the city elected a black mayor where upon he rattled off several examples of cities that had seen decline and also had black mayors... To me it sounded like the view of a bigot, but from someone I would have never thought of as being one.

Understand that at some schools your application may have to get approval by more than just the reader in admissions... if that professor had been one reading your application I have no doubt he would have given it a thumbs down. So please, think long and hard about putting information out there that will not help but could hurt. You have no idea what is in the heart of the person that is reading your application.


So you're saying that she should hide both her ethnicity and her sexuality? The bolded is the absolute reason why she should if she wants to, it is more likely to help than hurt and you have no idea who is going to read it so play to the odds (odds are that it will help). It would be absolutely retarded to hide this sort of thing unless she were applying to absolute trash schools (read: Regent/Liberty). At any T20 this is going to be a non issue. It's not like only one person reads each app and if some adcomm vetoes a high numbered URM, I bet other adcomms would question it and not let it slip.
Last edited by bk1 on Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pip
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Re: URM - Gay?!

Postby Pip » Tue Oct 05, 2010 2:23 pm

bk1 wrote:
Pip wrote:You know, I totally agree with you and did consider that possibility. However, I decided that I'd really rather not attend a school where I couldn't be out and active in the queer community. Why would I try to get in somewhere where they aren't happy to have me just as I am, you know? If the folks in admissions really were bigots, they'd have more than enough reason to reject me apart from my diversity statement.

Do you know any of the T20 in particular where disclosing my sexual orientation could hurt me? I've done some research on all of them and haven't found anything in particular, but that's not exactly the sort of thing schools would have readily available on their website :wink:

As for why I'm thinking about including it, I think it's compelling to explain how I've faced bigotry from people both outside and inside of my own community. For example, having to manage my blackness when I'm in a queer space. Or having to closet myself and hide my queerness when I'm a space dominated by straight people of color. Feeling like an outsider, in some respects, in several communities has made me a more independent person and more committed to being vocal in defending my own and others rights, if that makes any sense?

But yeah, this is still a question for me and I really appreciate your comments!


The problem I see is beyond the school... You could find that even if you applied to one of the most open schools out there that the reader of your application is that one bigot... maybe a closeted bigot.. maybe he/she only has problems with gays. Bigots are not rarity, the only thing rare in academia is the open bigot.

But you could be at risk simply because you opened up about something that isn't going to absolutely help you. I say this because in my past experience I had a professor in grad school that came across as a model for being fair... yet having discussions with him outside of the school after I had graduated I have no doubt in my mind that he was an absolute bigot when it came to blacks... He basically stated that you could tell when a city was going to go down hill, based on when the city elected a black mayor where upon he rattled off several examples of cities that had seen decline and also had black mayors... To me it sounded like the view of a bigot, but from someone I would have never thought of as being one.

Understand that at some schools your application may have to get approval by more than just the reader in admissions... if that professor had been one reading your application I have no doubt he would have given it a thumbs down. So please, think long and hard about putting information out there that will not help but could hurt. You have no idea what is in the heart of the person that is reading your application.


So you're saying that she should hide both her ethnicity and her sexuality? The bolded is the absolute reason why she should if she wants to, it is more likely to help than hurt and you have no idea who is going to read it so play to the odds (odds are that it will help). It would be absolutely retarded to hide this sort of thing unless she were applying to absolute trash schools (read: Regent/Liberty). At any T20 this is going to be a non issue. It's not like only one person reads each app and if some adcomm vetoes a high numbered URM, I bet other adcomms would question it and not let it slip.[/quote]

Clearly in your desire to take the opposite side of anything I say, you failed to read what I said. so let me make it clear enough even you can understand.

IF something will help you like your race, because you are a URM that school give a boost too, put it on.

IF something does not give you a boost, yet COULD hurt you because of a bias of the reader, don't put it on.

Now the fact is being gay isn't going to boost your chances at any school, being black will.




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