Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

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FlanAl
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby FlanAl » Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:28 pm

that is super scary! you don't think it was because how late he applied?

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Sat Sep 25, 2010 2:45 pm

cigrainger wrote:
The Real Jack McCoy wrote:I suspect that at the top schools your actual GPA will matter. E.g.:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Neely/jd


Maybe, but 3.3 definitely is not equivalent to a 2:1. Above average = 3.5+ at least. Superior = 3.8-4.0.


Sure, a 2:1 will do better than a 3.3., though at a place like Yale, Stanford, or Harvard, there are enough applicants to maintain their numbers that they can deny students if they have reason to believe they won't stack up academically. I'm just pointing out that I'd take the "all about the numbers" arguments on TLS with a grain of salt. The higher up you go in the rankings the less true that is.

He wasn't that late of an applicant (December for Harvard, and Yale is the one school where when you apply doesn't matter), his official LSAC GPA was a 4.0, and his LSAT was greater than the 75th percentile--a perfect numbers applicant, probably top 25-50 among applicants in his year. It is such a great (and honest!) illustration that HYS (and even CCB) will ding applicants if they don't think they are qualified that I almost suspect it of being an HYS adcomm plant.

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Sat Sep 25, 2010 9:07 pm

Interesting insights...

Cig, you invoke me to envy once more... that looks amazing. I am stuck in mother-in-law HELL. She has just attempted to tell me how difficult it is to work full time as a lawyer...in her infinite wisdom.

Yesterday I saw a thread entitled "struggling to understand felony murder" - come over to mine, you'll be curiously enlightened.

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:32 am

The Real Jack McCoy wrote:
cigrainger wrote:
The Real Jack McCoy wrote:I suspect that at the top schools your actual GPA will matter. E.g.:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Neely/jd


Maybe, but 3.3 definitely is not equivalent to a 2:1. Above average = 3.5+ at least. Superior = 3.8-4.0.


Sure, a 2:1 will do better than a 3.3., though at a place like Yale, Stanford, or Harvard, there are enough applicants to maintain their numbers that they can deny students if they have reason to believe they won't stack up academically. I'm just pointing out that I'd take the "all about the numbers" arguments on TLS with a grain of salt. The higher up you go in the rankings the less true that is.

He wasn't that late of an applicant (December for Harvard, and Yale is the one school where when you apply doesn't matter), his official LSAC GPA was a 4.0, and his LSAT was greater than the 75th percentile--a perfect numbers applicant, probably top 25-50 among applicants in his year. It is such a great (and honest!) illustration that HYS (and even CCB) will ding applicants if they don't think they are qualified that I almost suspect it of being an HYS adcomm plant.


This makes sense. I can see 'Above Average' being insufficient at HYS, but I'm not sure it will hurt with an above median LSAT everywhere else. Unfortunately a 'Superior' probably isn't enough to push you over an LSAT median, but I'm guessing 'Average' is enough to undo a good LSAT score.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:06 pm

cigrainger wrote:
The Real Jack McCoy wrote:
cigrainger wrote:
The Real Jack McCoy wrote:I suspect that at the top schools your actual GPA will matter. E.g.:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Neely/jd


Maybe, but 3.3 definitely is not equivalent to a 2:1. Above average = 3.5+ at least. Superior = 3.8-4.0.


Sure, a 2:1 will do better than a 3.3., though at a place like Yale, Stanford, or Harvard, there are enough applicants to maintain their numbers that they can deny students if they have reason to believe they won't stack up academically. I'm just pointing out that I'd take the "all about the numbers" arguments on TLS with a grain of salt. The higher up you go in the rankings the less true that is.

He wasn't that late of an applicant (December for Harvard, and Yale is the one school where when you apply doesn't matter), his official LSAC GPA was a 4.0, and his LSAT was greater than the 75th percentile--a perfect numbers applicant, probably top 25-50 among applicants in his year. It is such a great (and honest!) illustration that HYS (and even CCB) will ding applicants if they don't think they are qualified that I almost suspect it of being an HYS adcomm plant.


This makes sense. I can see 'Above Average' being insufficient at HYS, but I'm not sure it will hurt with an above median LSAT everywhere else. Unfortunately a 'Superior' probably isn't enough to push you over an LSAT median, but I'm guessing 'Average' is enough to undo a good LSAT score.


That sounds right to me--I suspect 2:1 is probably enough for CCN and the rest of the t14 to defer to your LSAT score, though I am no expert. In the case of "Neely," it is clear that his one good LSAT needed to be evaluated against a non-elite academic history (undergraduate + graduate GPA of 3.3, and the fact his LSAT score was a retake).

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Cromartie
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby Cromartie » Mon Sep 27, 2010 12:53 pm

The way I see it, and based partly on my own experience, our international GPA's won't really significantly help us get into law schools, but they can keep us from getting in. It's more like a soft factor and can either be a positive soft if at/above the school's median on a comparable scale, or a negative soft if below the school's median.

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:41 am

How are you other foreign applicants doing? Anybody submit more apps? Has anybody applied Duke Priority or UVA ED and gotten a decision yet?

xqhp82
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby xqhp82 » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:22 am

lets keep this thread alive yayyyy

I'm putting all my applications to a temporary halt since I'm starting to freak out about LSAT which is coming in...14 days. Should be fine waiting til mid-late october I suppose.

I submitted to UVA but not ED, just for fun, haha. blanketing all the mid-low T14.

BTw, is anyone of you applying to Vandy? I'm not sure if I should request for an interview, I assume for us overseas students it's probably going to be a phone interview which I am really suck at, but is it going to make my app look worse if i don't request for one at all?

Skyhook
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby Skyhook » Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:24 pm

Which other LS routinely give a phone interview or give you the option of one?
(Not applying to Vandy by the way)

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:54 pm

submitted first app today. feels good, but it's a long shot :D

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:48 pm

thesybarite wrote:submitted first app today. feels good, but it's a long shot :D


Awesome! Congrats! Which school?

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:22 am

An unnamed source has provided me with this info from LSAC: 'Starting in August 2010, LSAC will no longer report an admission index or cumulative GPA for applicants who received their undergraduate degree from an institution located outside the US, its territories, or Canada, and also completed some US/Canadian undergraduate-level work prior to the awarding of the international degree.'

So it appears that they have come to their senses, and that they flat out lied to me when I asked this summer.

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FlanAl
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby FlanAl » Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:44 am

that is good news! thanks for posting that info. the thought of them slapping me with a GPA as soon as i started applying or something was on the back of my mind.

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Wed Sep 29, 2010 4:47 am

cigrainger wrote:An unnamed source has provided me with this info from LSAC: 'Starting in August 2010, LSAC will no longer report an admission index or cumulative GPA for applicants who received their undergraduate degree from an institution located outside the US, its territories, or Canada, and also completed some US/Canadian undergraduate-level work prior to the awarding of the international degree.'

So it appears that they have come to their senses, and that they flat out lied to me when I asked this summer.



That's really interesting. I wonder if that will change my academic summary report (whatever it's called)?

re earlier question: The big H.

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:00 am

thesybarite wrote:
cigrainger wrote:An unnamed source has provided me with this info from LSAC: 'Starting in August 2010, LSAC will no longer report an admission index or cumulative GPA for applicants who received their undergraduate degree from an institution located outside the US, its territories, or Canada, and also completed some US/Canadian undergraduate-level work prior to the awarding of the international degree.'

So it appears that they have come to their senses, and that they flat out lied to me when I asked this summer.



That's really interesting. I wonder if that will change my academic summary report (whatever it's called)?

re earlier question: The big H.


If you want it changed, email them and request it. My unnamed source apparently did it successfully. Best of luck at Harvard! They better let you in!

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Wed Sep 29, 2010 5:19 am

Thanks Cig, you too. Appreciate it.

Yes I've been meaning to give my friends at LSAC a call anyhow, so I'll mention it. That would be great. Superior sounds so much nicer on it's own :D

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:15 am

So any news from you guys? Are most of you waiting for the Oct LSAT? How are PTs going?

Skyhook
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby Skyhook » Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:24 pm

Preparing for October (retake!).
PTs going ok this time, don't have two jobs, don't have hostile work environment.
It wasn't the best time for me to take the test last time!

PT anecdote:
I was doing one of the PT's the other day and in one of the Args it mentions bacterial flagella, as in the "evidence" for intelligent design that was presented at the Dover trial a few years ago.

As a scientist I was was momentarily floored by the question because I didn't want to bring in my outside knowledge to it!
It wasn't a difficult question, but I had to stop, clear my mind and go a lot more slowly with it to avoid external influence.
I wasn't particularly happy with LSAC for using a such a tangible example. I normally like the science in Args and RC.

You guys have any similar experiences with LSAT?

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Thu Sep 30, 2010 10:06 pm

I hate the LSAT. I am meant to be re-taking in Oct...

I have this weekend to really go hard before I figure out whether or not to cancel. I've sort of run out of material, and I seem to flit wildly between feeling like I'm nailing it and then feeling like there's just no point :(

And yes, Skyhook - I'm much more prone to making errors in LR questions where I have a good knowledge of the stimulus; I don't read as closely.

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 4:39 am

So I'm under review at Chicago, but apparently that doesn't mean much. According to the complete email: 'Please note that we typically do not begin issuing decisions until late December. Therefore, even if your application goes under review early in the cycle, you likely will not receive a decision until December. Otherwise, it generally takes anywhere from 6-10 weeks from the date your file is complete for you to receive a decision depending on our application volume.'

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:03 am

Chicago - that's great Cig. I watched an interesting documentary on the influence Chicago had on shaping Obama last night. It was inspiring. Are you applying to NU as well - double shot at Chicago? My alumni interviewer really raved about how great it was to live there.

Weekend has started...I really must get off tls...

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:14 am

thesybarite wrote:Chicago - that's great Cig. I watched an interesting documentary on the influence Chicago had on shaping Obama last night. It was inspiring. Are you applying to NU as well - double shot at Chicago? My alumni interviewer really raved about how great it was to live there.

Weekend has started...I really must get off tls...


Maybe. I'm not into how business oriented NU is. Neither school is big on PI, but apparently Chicago's new dean intends to change that. I'd have to go to Singapore to interview with a NU alumnus and that is going to be expensive and difficult.

Honestly I'm at a point where all the other parts of my app are pretty strong except my LSAT. If I don't get into one of HCCNPB I'm going to do something else for a year (or two if I get accepted to TFA), retake, and try again.

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:18 am

Yup that interview sounds way too hard. Chicago also has all that new money floating around...could be useful. Fits the big city category too.

Do you think we'll hear anything much before Dec? Only if someone thinks we're super fabulous I guess...

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cigrainger
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby cigrainger » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:21 am

thesybarite wrote:Yup that interview sounds way too hard. Chicago also has all that new money floating around...could be useful. Fits the big city category too.

Do you think we'll hear anything much before Dec? Only if someone thinks we're super fabulous I guess...


Looking at the past couple years there appears to be VERY little movement before Dec 1, and even that is just the last week of Nov. I think we're just stuck waiting, unfortunately. I'm dying to know, and I may have to accept a TFA offer by Nov 22 if I'm accepted. Not sure what to do if that happens.

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thesybarite
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Re: Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011

Postby thesybarite » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:24 am

cigrainger wrote:
thesybarite wrote:Yup that interview sounds way too hard. Chicago also has all that new money floating around...could be useful. Fits the big city category too.

Do you think we'll hear anything much before Dec? Only if someone thinks we're super fabulous I guess...


Looking at the past couple years there appears to be VERY little movement before Dec 1, and even that is just the last week of Nov. I think we're just stuck waiting, unfortunately. I'm dying to know, and I may have to accept a TFA offer by Nov 22 if I'm accepted. Not sure what to do if that happens.


It may give you some bargaining power? Although from what I've seen Law Schools LOVE TFA, so perhaps they're more likely to say, fine, enjoy, come back next year. I read up on TFA for the first time, it looks amazing. It really inspired me. I just feel a little too...ancient...to do that now ie I've wasted enough time




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