Official Foreign Applicants Thread 2010-2011 Forum

[cigrainger]

So I know there are a few UK applicants this year, and there are probably others, so here is a thread for international applicants, whether you be a non-US citizen who went to undergrad in the US or abroad, or a US citizen who went to undergrad abroad (like me).

Share any knowledge you've picked up, how things are going, where you're applying, etc.

I have some other options available next year so I'm only applying to a small number of schools in cities -- Harvard, NYU, Columbia, Berk, Chicago, and Penn (and probably UVA due to a fee waiver). I have a TFA application out as well, waiting to hear back.

[The Real Jack McCoy]

I'd be interested in knowing what schools are more open to internationals than others. I suppose I'll start with my impressions of the t6:


Schools who have a lot:

Harvard (there is a discrepancy between the ABA listed data and the data on Harvard's website; I'm going with the website - 9%ish)
Columbia (8.9%)

In between:

Yale (4.1%)

Schools who don't (~3% or less):

NYU (3.1%)
Chicago (2.4%)
Stanford (2.0%)

It's hard to say why these numbers are what they are though--I suspect a lot of internationals with very high numbers self-select into Harvard due to Harvard's international prestige.

[xqhp82]

Glad to see a foreign applicants thread. I'd like to meet more intl. people who're applying this cycle, or ppl who've applied previously could let us know what their numbers were and how their cycles went.

I'm about to send out my applications, probably before i take the Oct LSAT, just because I think I should do everything possible to boost my chance, including submitting my apps asap. But it's really hard to tell which schools are within my range since being international may put me in both an advantageous and disadvantageous position...even more difficult to tell without a LSAT score. Currently I'm PT-ing around the average of low-mid 160s, so i'm guessing thats gonna be it.....far from what I originally aimed for but oh well. With my 'above average' grade (69% from a UK university, I'd say its about a GPA of 3.6-3.7) I'm planning to throw out my apps to 20+ schools from the T6 downwards to T30. What do you guys think? Do I stand a realistic chance?

[prithvis1987]

Let me Throw my hat in.........Studying for the Oct Exam ........Hope to make 170

[cigrainger]

Glad to see a foreign applicants thread. I'd like to meet more intl. people who're applying this cycle, or ppl who've applied previously could let us know what their numbers were and how their cycles went.

I'm about to send out my applications, probably before i take the Oct LSAT, just because I think I should do everything possible to boost my chance, including submitting my apps asap. But it's really hard to tell which schools are within my range since being international may put me in both an advantageous and disadvantageous position...even more difficult to tell without a LSAT score. Currently I'm PT-ing around the average of low-mid 160s, so i'm guessing thats gonna be it.....far from what I originally aimed for but oh well. With my 'above average' grade (69% from a UK university, I'd say its about a GPA of 3.6-3.7) I'm planning to throw out my apps to 20+ schools from the T6 downwards to T30. What do you guys think? Do I stand a realistic chance?

I'm applying to schools where my LSAT is at or above median (aside from Harvard and Columbia) and EDing at a school where my LSAT is one point below median, but they accepted quite a few people with my LSAT (171) with median or slightly lower GPA (I have a 'superior'). My guess is that schools will treat an above average or a superior as being right around median, perhaps just under for 'above average', but the numbers matter less.

I think it will play out like this:

LSAT






Foreign grade evaluation

PS/Recs/Softs

[cigrainger]

Any foreign applicants want to swap PSs?

[thesybarite]

Awesome, I'm pleased to see a foreign thread

xqhp82 I like your theory on gpa/superior/median correlation. That would rock my world.

[xqhp82]

Awesome, I'm pleased to see a foreign thread

xqhp82 I like your theory on gpa/superior/median correlation. That would rock my world.

I think you meant cigrainger's theory haha.

I do not like this system though, considering LSAT is my weakest point, and my undergrad score is only 1% towards a Superior. I also think i have decent softs and LORs. I don't know why in terms of numbers I'm always on the borderline. Really want to push harder and get at least a 165......if they treat above average as median then having below a 165 really puts me in an extremely dangerous position.

Where are you all applying from?

edit: do you guys think they'll look at our foreign transcript in detail (focusing more on what classes we did/ what grades we get from those classes etc)?

[cigrainger]

Awesome, I'm pleased to see a foreign thread

xqhp82 I like your theory on gpa/superior/median correlation. That would rock my world.

I think you meant cigrainger's theory haha.

I do not like this system though, considering LSAT is my weakest point, and my undergrad score is only 1% towards a Superior. I also think i have decent softs and LORs. I don't know why in terms of numbers I'm always on the borderline. Really want to push harder and get at least a 165......if they treat above average as median then having below a 165 really puts me in an extremely dangerous position.

Where are you all applying from?

edit: do you guys think they'll look at our foreign transcript in detail (focusing more on what classes we did/ what grades we get from those classes etc)?

I went to school in the UK, but I'm applying from Vietnam. I have no idea re: the edit question. I'm just really hoping I get one bite, that's all I need!

[thesybarite]

Went to school in New Zealand, applying from Australia.

Yup, one bite is all we need.

I think the international card is a good one to play for unis who are looking for a "diverse" student body.

And, xpqh82, the lsat sux. It's hard to know just how much...medians/percentiles are just that; there are plenty of people who fall below the 25th, but who are they??? Where are they??

[LLB2JD]

I went to school in the UK, and would be applying from UK and/or US. I am a US citizen though.

[piccolittle]

I'm a US citizen, applying from the UK, went to school in the UK. You would think with so many "internationals" applying this cycle, that we would have at least some anecdotal evidence or numbers from last cycle! Even though 2:1, 1st, 2:2 don't exactly correlate to US GPAs, you would think that there would be a predictable range or something. Good luck, everyone! What did you all study? How many LLBs do we have?

[Nulli Secundus]

I am a Turkish citizen, UG also in Turkey, "superior", taking the Oct '10 LSAT, practicing between 173 - 180 atm, over 42 PTs. I did not go below 173 for the last 22 PTs. Hoping to do similarly on the real one. Good luck all

[xqhp82]

u've got beautiful scores nullisecundus...i'm sure you'll have a great cycle this year.

also, i thought that for law schools in the US they don't allow LLB applicants for JD?

i'm applying from the UK as well, Hong Kong citizen. i'm surprised to see quite a few US students from the UK, is it a trend for americans to study undergrad there because it takes 1 year less?

[cigrainger]

u've got beautiful scores nullisecundus...i'm sure you'll have a great cycle this year.

also, i thought that for law schools in the US they don't allow LLB applicants for JD?

i'm applying from the UK as well, Hong Kong citizen. i'm surprised to see quite a few US students from the UK, is it a trend for americans to study undergrad there because it takes 1 year less?

Not sure -- at Edinburgh, it was four years anyway.

[LLB2JD]

LLB here

[prithvis1987]

I have LLB equivalent B.L.(Hons.) . In my country different states award different types of law degrees not uniform.

[cigrainger]

Bump. Any more internationals want to trade PSs?

I think I'll be submitting at least one or two apps this week! Anybody else?

[WestOfTheRest]

Does Canadian count?

[LLB2JD]

Does Canadian count?

Nope they don't. LSAC treats them like Americans (I think)

[WestOfTheRest]

Does Canadian count?

Nope they don't. LSAC treats them like Americans (I think)

Lol, I don't get to be part of any group... how sad.

Edit: The americans don't want us, because like Ann Coulter says, we're lucky they even let us exist on the same continent as America. And the brits haven't liked us since the Halibut Treaty. WTF

[FlanAl]

hey there,

us citizen, uk undergrad, applying from the us, "above average" and no lsat yet. haha i really hope this thread doesn't die a quick death like all the other ones. as far as anecdotal evidence goes there was a person on here last year who had an "above average" classification but said they had a really high 2:1 with like a 163 after a retake that got into a couple of T30's. To me that makes a 2:1 seem pretty legit and those with "superior" will probably do really well (and you should considering that you basically got better than a 4.0). it would be great if more people would provide anecdotes just so we could kinda get a handle on things.

I'm glad we have this thread to try and help each other out and I wish everyone good luck on their cycle!

[FlanAl]

u've got beautiful scores nullisecundus...i'm sure you'll have a great cycle this year.

also, i thought that for law schools in the US they don't allow LLB applicants for JD?

i'm applying from the UK as well, Hong Kong citizen. i'm surprised to see quite a few US students from the UK, is it a trend for americans to study undergrad there because it takes 1 year less?

they definitely allow LLB applicants for JD. from penn's site: Q. IF I HOLD AN LL.M. OR A foreign law degree, WILL I BE GRANTED ADVANCED STANDING FOR THE J.D. PROGRAM, I.E. WILL I BE GIVEN CREDIT FOR ANY OF MY COURSEWORK?
Students who hold an LL.M. degree will not be given credit for their LL.M. coursework; however, students who hold a foreign law degree (LL.B.) may be given credit for their law courses. Typically, students holding an LL.B. will be granted one year of credit; thus, they will be able to complete the J.D. program in two years. The evaluation of foreign law coursework is completed after the student is admitted.

so yeah might be something for you LLB folks to consider

[prithvis1987]

I thought about what FlanAL said and did a bit of research on the Two Year program. A lot of Schools do not offer the option from what was listed on their website. Example - NYU . However some like Chicago,Northwestern,Columbia, Upenn do offer it but Northwestern expects you to pay the equivalent fees for a Three Year program and offers no scholarships. Plus how a Two -Year program affects OCI is another important consideration for those staying back and wanting to work in the US. It is a good option if you want to be done quickly with your course.

[MrAdams]

also, i thought that for law schools in the US they don't allow LLB applicants for JD?
?

All the law schools I have spoken to in California accept LLB students. You may come across a few who are like "wat. wat is an LLB." though,... which blew my mind to be honest. Some of them say however they do not accept practicing lawyers from over seas,... but in most jurisdictions the LLB does not afford its owner the same right to practice law as a JD does, so it is not an equivalent degree and therefore, as you are not a 'practicing lawyer' with an LLB, most JD programs will accept you. Or so schools have told me. This is with regards to the undergraduate English LLB at the very least.

I don't know as of yet whether it is a benefit or not to have an LLB, but I am putting in an addendum in which respects LLB. courses are similar to JD courses - work load, academic expectations, exam process etc. Hopefully it will give the realistic impression that an LLB is a seriously tough degree, it could be said as tough as any JD program.