How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

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NonnyMouse
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How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:24 am

GPA: over 3.9
LSAT: over 175
W/experience: just ok...some volunteering but I'm coming right out of undergrad (Ivy)

I'd like a Darrow more than anything else (I'd take it over HYS in a heartbeat). I've thought a lot about it, so no need to dissuade me on that point. All I want to know is: how do I get one?

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lzyovrachievr
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby lzyovrachievr » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:48 pm

Be awesome?

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50634

Looks like they invite certain people to apply for it each year after they've been accepted.

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Teoeo
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby Teoeo » Wed Sep 15, 2010 12:52 pm

write the optional essays like "why mich" and you should get it.

NonnyMouse
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:36 pm

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Last edited by NonnyMouse on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

NonnyMouse
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Wed Sep 15, 2010 8:57 pm

Also, it seems like they give out around 12? Is it 12 offered, or 12 actually matriculate?

oppotomus
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby oppotomus » Thu Sep 16, 2010 2:47 pm

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Last edited by oppotomus on Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NonnyMouse
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:23 pm

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Last edited by NonnyMouse on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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St.Remy
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby St.Remy » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:32 pm

NonnyMouse wrote:Thanks. Just heard from a friend at MI that the 2nd hire for next year's SCOTUS clerks was a MI Darrow.

It's good to know there are no ceilings. If anything, I think being a Darrow might put you into a better spot than being at HY. What do you think? It seems like you might stand out more in a sea of HY applicants because they get an HY type of student but get to say they hire outside of HY...


No. Look at clerkship statistics, both for the SC and other areas. Harvard and Yale place incredibly well, worlds ahead of Michigan. This is repeated in other areas of the law as well. Economically it might make sense to take a Darrow over HY, but don't delude yourself into thinking that your chances in highly competitive fields would be just as good.

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JG Hall
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby JG Hall » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:33 pm

you could probably get a named scholly from CCN...

NonnyMouse
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:37 pm

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Last edited by NonnyMouse on Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

NonnyMouse
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:39 pm

JG Hall wrote:you could probably get a named scholly from CCN...


I'd still rather get a Darrow. I like the MI culture more, and the savings you get from the Darrow is just bigger than any of the others when you include the stipend and the COL.

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JG Hall
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby JG Hall » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:41 pm

NonnyMouse wrote:This is a false comparison, FYI. You can't compare HY to all MI students and think that you are accurately gauging how Darrows do. I would venture a guess that Darrows do just as well as their HY counterparts--i.e. those with the same class rank. Also, because you can make an argument that Darrows will rank higher at MI than they would have at HY, they would in fact place better than had they gone to HY. But the last hypo might even be true. I tend to think there isn't all that much variation in student quality in the Top 10.

Please notice that this is not said as if it were fact.

yeah, but it's also not fair to compare people with real grades with kids from Yale. they crush everyone's ass for clerkships anyway.

tazmolover
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby tazmolover » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:42 pm

Have really good grades and good softs and cross your fingers.

You seem to have at least the first part down. Maybe the 2nd. Luck will (or won't) take care of the third.

NonnyMouse
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby NonnyMouse » Sun Oct 10, 2010 11:47 pm

JG Hall wrote:
NonnyMouse wrote:This is a false comparison, FYI. You can't compare HY to all MI students and think that you are accurately gauging how Darrows do. I would venture a guess that Darrows do just as well as their HY counterparts--i.e. those with the same class rank. Also, because you can make an argument that Darrows will rank higher at MI than they would have at HY, they would in fact place better than had they gone to HY. But the last hypo might even be true. I tend to think there isn't all that much variation in student quality in the Top 10.

Please notice that this is not said as if it were fact.

yeah, but it's also not fair to compare people with real grades with kids from Yale. they crush everyone's ass for clerkships anyway.



This is true. But, back to my earlier post, a MI Darrow beat out all but one Harvard grad in getting a SCOTUS clerkship this year (by beat out, I mean she was hired second). And she was placed with Kennedy--arguably the most sought after (i.e. most meaningful for close cases). I think people over hype top 10 distinctions. I say take the money and run.

M.M.
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby M.M. » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:39 am

What's a Darrow?

Fully scholly?

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St.Remy
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby St.Remy » Mon Oct 11, 2010 12:52 am

NonnyMouse wrote:This is true. But, back to my earlier post, a MI Darrow beat out all but one Harvard grad in getting a SCOTUS clerkship this year (by beat out, I mean she was hired second). And she was placed with Kennedy--arguably the most sought after (i.e. most meaningful for close cases). I think people over hype top 10 distinctions. I say take the money and run.


In the last ten years Kennedy has had 15 clerks from Harvard and 11 clerks from Yale but only 1 clerk from Michigan. Even if they add one more next year (a fact which I have found no corroboration for online) that would bring their total up to 2. Texas has had 2 Kennedy clerks in the last ten years. If you want a Supreme Court clerkship with Kennedy or any of the other Justices going to Michigan would be a very poor decision when compared to attending Harvard or Yale.

And to M.M. yes a Darrow is a full scholly.

green
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby green » Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:11 am

Well, even if it is several times higher at Harvard or Yale, the probability of getting a Supreme Court clerkship is still pretty small, so I probably wouldn't choose a school based on that. Then again, the idea of getting a top 10 legal education for free and being completely free from debt upon graduation appeals to me enormously.

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JG Hall
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:44 am

green wrote:Well, even if it is several times higher at Harvard or Yale, the probability of getting a Supreme Court clerkship is still pretty small, so I probably wouldn't choose a school based on that. Then again, the idea of getting a top 10 legal education for free and being completely free from debt upon graduation appeals to me enormously.

Yale graduates a class of around 220. Harvard graduates a class of 560ish. If 10/37 clerks come from each school, I'll take 5% with no grades over 2% with more impactful fake grades any day.

but i have no desire to clerk, so who cares.

tazmolover
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby tazmolover » Mon Oct 11, 2010 5:06 am

I wonder if a 4.5 180 would be guaranteed a darrow.

oppotomus
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby oppotomus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:26 am

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Last edited by oppotomus on Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

oppotomus
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby oppotomus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:28 am

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Last edited by oppotomus on Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tommynobody
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby tommynobody » Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:52 am

oppotomus wrote:
St.Remy wrote:In the last ten years Kennedy has had 15 clerks from Harvard and 11 clerks from Yale but only 1 clerk from Michigan. Even if they add one more next year (a fact which I have found no corroboration for online) that would bring their total up to 2. Texas has had 2 Kennedy clerks in the last ten years. If you want a Supreme Court clerkship with Kennedy or any of the other Justices going to Michigan would be a very poor decision when compared to attending Harvard or Yale.

And to M.M. yes a Darrow is a full scholly.


Again, a false comparison. In order to make the kind of statements you want, you'd have to compare only to Darrows, not MI students as a whole. And yes, I realize that isn't really possible. I'm just saying that your misreading the previous poster's point.

Still seems like Remy has a valid point. If there was only one clerk from Michigan, that means there could have been at most one Darrow clerk over that time period. So Harvard and Yale still had much better placement than Darrow (excluding all other MI students), 15 to 11 to 1.

oppotomus
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby oppotomus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:05 am

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Last edited by oppotomus on Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rundoxierun
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:12 am

You guys are joking right? With something as scarce as scotus clerkships, absolute number matters more than% of students. Thats like adjusting number of nobel prizes for number of students graduated. It just doesnt matter.

oppotomus
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Re: How do I get a Darrow at Michigan?

Postby oppotomus » Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:15 am

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Last edited by oppotomus on Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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