Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

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Skyhook
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Re: Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

Postby Skyhook » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:10 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
sanetruth wrote:I've noticed statistics saying that around 84% of students in the T30 take out loans to pay for law school. That leaves thousands of students who don't, and graduate without debt. So is it still a bad decision?

In other words, is law school a 'waste of money'? Or is it just dangerous to those who graduate with a significant amount of debt? I don't see a lot of caveats about people who are able to graduate debt free, meaning with money from family or even full rides from T14 (hey, it happens).

I'd be interested to hear opinions regarding this distinction.


With debt, it is a financial disaster.

Without debt, it is a career disaster.

Again, this applies to the majority, but not to all students. There are always exceptions.

Please take my opinion seriously. I just graduated from T14 and can't find a job. I have been insulted, trashed, and threatened with a ban here.


Are you representative of most T14ers?

As to MrAnon's question:
Just because you might be able to get a loan doesn't mean you will run a successful business, in as much the same way as getting into law school will mean you are a successful lawyer.

Introspection and serious analysis of your abilities and desires are more important for choosing your career path than being able to persuade an adcom or bank manager.

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conroyc
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Re: Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

Postby conroyc » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:52 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
sanetruth wrote:I've noticed statistics saying that around 84% of students in the T30 take out loans to pay for law school. That leaves thousands of students who don't, and graduate without debt. So is it still a bad decision?

In other words, is law school a 'waste of money'? Or is it just dangerous to those who graduate with a significant amount of debt? I don't see a lot of caveats about people who are able to graduate debt free, meaning with money from family or even full rides from T14 (hey, it happens).

I'd be interested to hear opinions regarding this distinction.


With debt, it is a financial disaster.

Without debt, it is a career disaster.

Again, this applies to the majority, but not to all students. There are always exceptions.

Please take my opinion seriously. I just graduated from T14 and can't find a job. I have been insulted, trashed, and threatened with a ban here.


Really? I can't see how obtaining any type of advanced degree without debt is a "career disaster." If anything, it shows that you are a dedicated and motivated individual, even if you don't land that dream law job. Get a job doing something else... You're better off than someone who only has a bachelor's degree.

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dresden doll
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Re: Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

Postby dresden doll » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:54 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
paratactical wrote:--ImageRemoved--

--ImageRemoved--


And that proves me wrong how...?


You would do yourself a favor to quit with hyperbolic bullshit, and I say that as a confirmed pessimist who may yet wind up striking out at OCI herself.

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Stringer6
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Re: Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

Postby Stringer6 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:12 pm

it would LITERALLY be better to kill yourself than go to law school. it's JUST. THAT. BAD.

doctoroflaw
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Re: Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

Postby doctoroflaw » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:13 pm

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Obviously the debt makes a big difference. $1000-$2000 a month from your after tax income is going to be pretty significant for most people. Just try out some budgets...

And most new businesses don't make it at all, nevermind survive five years and become profitable. There are entire canons of contract law and reams of lending standards built around the fact that any given new business is almost certain to fail. Of the small % that don't, the survivors are highly biased towards established people in an industry starting something new, or wealthy businessmen (i.e. can raise equity and fund losses if necessary; also tend to know how to handle business) stepping into a new industry. Overlooking for a moment there's a reason the government will give Mr. No Assets $180,000 for school but the bank won't give Mr. No Assets $180,000 for something else.


http://www.bnet.com/blog/business-myths ... irrors/117

Also, if educational loans functioned like the real world market economy...

ScaredWorkedBored
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Re: Is law school a DISASTROUS decision only w/ debt?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Tue Sep 14, 2010 9:55 pm

doctoroflaw wrote:
ScaredWorkedBored wrote:Obviously the debt makes a big difference. $1000-$2000 a month from your after tax income is going to be pretty significant for most people. Just try out some budgets...

And most new businesses don't make it at all, nevermind survive five years and become profitable. There are entire canons of contract law and reams of lending standards built around the fact that any given new business is almost certain to fail. Of the small % that don't, the survivors are highly biased towards established people in an industry starting something new, or wealthy businessmen (i.e. can raise equity and fund losses if necessary; also tend to know how to handle business) stepping into a new industry. Overlooking for a moment there's a reason the government will give Mr. No Assets $180,000 for school but the bank won't give Mr. No Assets $180,000 for something else.


http://www.bnet.com/blog/business-myths ... irrors/117


Those numbers are expressly only counting the ones that have employees. Apart from the fact that 3/4's of US businesses don't have payrolls, employees significantly increase your capital and cash flow requirements and impose certain constraints on what you are doing.

If you want to play with games data sets, how about you control for small businesses that are started by 22-26 year-olds with little or no experience and no real technical skills? Since this was being brought up in comparison to law school as a career track, it's not competing with tech startups or skilled trades.

Also, if educational loans functioned like the real world market economy...


They won't absent a reform in the bankruptcy code. No efficient breech allowed.




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