Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

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reasonable_man
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby reasonable_man » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:45 pm

Hey Opp:

Can you in like 100 words or less describe all of your hustling that you engaged in while trying to obtain a job?

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Grizz
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:46 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:After 12 pages of debate, I really doubt either OP or her critics are going to change their mind about anything at this point.

BP went on for over 9000 pages without an agreement. No harm in trying!


And Nova or Barry is still debating the eternal question.

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Ginj
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Ginj » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:50 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:Where is the insult in V's remarks?


Bewbs.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:04 pm

rad law wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
johnnyutah wrote:After 12 pages of debate, I really doubt either OP or her critics are going to change their mind about anything at this point.

BP went on for over 9000 pages without an agreement. No harm in trying!


And Nova or Barry is still debating the eternal question.


To be fair, I think Nova is better. I hear they have Starbucks at their OCI.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Nulli Secundus » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:08 pm

Seriously, what exactly is the point of this thread?

I mean, if one decides to go to law school and take on $100k+ debt, he/she probably already thought about it long and hard and his/her opinion will definitely not be swayed by an opinion voiced on a medium allowing anonymity. (Oh look, a stranger telling me I am an idiot for doing this, since I have no self-respect or confidence, I should totally agree with him)

Sigh.

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Grizz
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Grizz » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:09 pm

nullisecundus wrote:I mean, if one decides to go to law school and take on $100k+ debt, he/she probably already thought about it long and hard and his/her opinion will definitely not be swayed by an opinion voiced on a medium allowing anonymity.


Or they didn't think about it barely at all, and they still won't be swayed. People are dumb.

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bk1
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby bk1 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:12 pm

nullisecundus wrote:I mean, if one decides to go to law school and take on $100k+ debt, he/she probably already thought about it long and hard


I can't tell if you're kidding or not but I really don't think this is true.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:16 pm

rad law wrote:
nullisecundus wrote:I mean, if one decides to go to law school and take on $100k+ debt, he/she probably already thought about it long and hard and his/her opinion will definitely not be swayed by an opinion voiced on a medium allowing anonymity.


Or they didn't think about it barely at all, and they still won't be swayed. People are dumb.


Or... perhaps they're going to law school for a very, very competitive price. For instance, a lower T1, UF, that's a state university is 36k sticker and gives agressive scholarships to state residents and first-generation law students brings the price down to roughly half I've heard.

So, for the price of a chevy fucking aveo, you're attending law school. Worse case scenario nothing comes from it - but at least you have a healthy(you better hope?) undergrad with a professional degree with should give you perks anyways. At the very least, you'll have a cheap JD and can continue onto grad school work.

There are just so many ways you can go with this as long as you don't take the 6-figure debt bullet.

Remember, the price of a chevy fucking aveo is the sweet spot for debt.

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romothesavior
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby romothesavior » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:18 pm

vanwinkle wrote:I will say that for those of you hoping for BigLaw or prestigious government work, then no, there are not enough jobs to go around for all the T14 kids wanting them. Even at Harvard there are kids who struck out at OCI, but I know a couple who're brushing it off and lining up interviews at smaller markets and less competitive places. That's the thing; the legal market is competitive, and for most people at a T14 your degree will make you competitive enough to find work somewhere... just not necessarily at a place that will pay you six figures.

If you want to make bank and live like a baller, then no, maybe you shouldn't be going to law school just to find that, even at a T14. But if you want to be a lawyer, you're going to a T14 school, and you understand that not making six figures is not the end of the world, then there are going to be plenty of opportunities for you. It'll still be competitive; you still have to compete for those jobs, and nothing is guaranteed, but it's not so dire that you're likely screwed even at a T14.

It's important to keep in mind your financial picture, though, and how you'll pay off what loans you take. If you're taking out significant loans, IBR is your friend. IBR also means you're not going to have "a ruined life" as OP suggests. It's not going to be easy, but it's not going to be devastating if you actually planned for it from the beginning, like you should anwyay.

In short: OP's ramble is for people who don't know what they're getting themselves into, but is not getting any respect because the tone is a hyperbolic "don't go, everyone's fucked" and not the more reasonable "know what you're getting yourself into and that it'll be hard" that it should be.


This was a great post and I feel like it hasn't gotten the +1s it deserves. So +1.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:20 pm

bk1 wrote:
nullisecundus wrote:I mean, if one decides to go to law school and take on $100k+ debt, he/she probably already thought about it long and hard


I can't tell if you're kidding or not but I really don't think this is true.


I think he's serious - though I think people should push congress to get more aggressive student loan counseling, especially for fields outside of the medical industry.

You can never go wrong with medicine. Just think about it.. down on your luck and can't find sick people? LOL... nah, just kidding.

But in all honestly - people should think it over 100x in their mind... if they really want to be a lawyer. It's like throwing you youth away - but hey, you're a professional.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:26 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
uwb09 wrote:I'm a fresh 4 week in 1L at a T2 and I don't regret it at all

I'm absolutely fascinated with the material, I love the intellectual challenge, Profs are awesome, met some great people who I can tell are gonna be friends for a long time

I'm already getting ready to get knee deep in several clubs, volunteering at symposiums and mixers, I've already got a personal repertoire going with a judge alumni in a nearby city and several attorneys in the area

Frankly, if your job prospects are such sh*t on graduation, I don't think there is anyone to blame but yourself. Obviously I'm looking at this from the beginning of the process, but from what I can see now, there are insane opportunities through your school, law club chapters, and ABA to meet and network with hundreds, probably thousands of attorneys/judges, throughout your law school career


I want you to open up a Word document. Okay? Open it, and copy & paste this post you just made. Save it to your computer and to a flash drive. Tuck it away. Open it and reread what you just wrote on graduation day, a few months short of three years from now.
Ah yes. Networking. The silver bullet.

Not saying you shouldn't network, but be realistic. You're at a T2. If you want biglaw you need to be top 10% for your networking to mean anything. Keep that in mind.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:32 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
JeanMarie wrote:
uwb09 wrote:I'm a fresh 4 week in 1L at a T2 and I don't regret it at all

I'm absolutely fascinated with the material, I love the intellectual challenge, Profs are awesome, met some great people who I can tell are gonna be friends for a long time

I'm already getting ready to get knee deep in several clubs, volunteering at symposiums and mixers, I've already got a personal repertoire going with a judge alumni in a nearby city and several attorneys in the area

Frankly, if your job prospects are such sh*t on graduation, I don't think there is anyone to blame but yourself. Obviously I'm looking at this from the beginning of the process, but from what I can see now, there are insane opportunities through your school, law club chapters, and ABA to meet and network with hundreds, probably thousands of attorneys/judges, throughout your law school career


It's a possibility. Everything's possible.

In fact, I have a chance at getting a job with the pentagon tomorrow. Everybody does. Is it a sure thing? haha, nope.

The whole point behind the rankings is to get as close to "a sure thing" as possible. i.e.: Yale Law usually makes any entry-level legal employment 'a sure thing' collectively.

I want you to open up a Word document. Okay? Open it, and copy & paste this post you just made. Save it to your computer and to a flash drive. Tuck it away. Open it and reread what you just wrote on graduation day, a few months short of three years from now.
Ah yes. Networking. The silver bullet.

Not saying you shouldn't network, but be realistic. You're at a T2. If you want biglaw you need to be top 10% for your networking to mean anything. Keep that in mind.

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johnnyutah
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby johnnyutah » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:55 pm

reasonable_man wrote:Hey Opp

You down with Opp?

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tea_drinker
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby tea_drinker » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:52 am

So if I attend BYU law, the discussion of high debt, low paying jobs is not applicable to me, yes?

:lol: :lol: :lol:

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sundance95
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby sundance95 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:59 am

This thread is like a hamster wheel-we go round and round and get nowhere.

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Fred_McGriff
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Fred_McGriff » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:55 am

What an awesome melt.

Went to a T14 and can't get a job? Move to Cleveland, there are plenty of legal jobs for T14 grads there.

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Sentry
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Sentry » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:08 am

nullisecundus wrote:already thought about it long and hard

--ImageRemoved--

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General Tso
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby General Tso » Tue Sep 14, 2010 11:13 am

tbldc2009 wrote:So if I attend BYU law, the discussion of high debt, low paying jobs is not applicable to me, yes?

:lol: :lol: :lol:


what are you so proud of, exactly? what is the difference between this and taking a scholarship at WUSTL, attending an in-state school, etc.?
:?: :?: :?:

btw the high debt part may not apply to all, but the low paying job part certainly does.

JakeL
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JakeL » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:42 pm

There's a reason these people are on this board complaining instead of getting paid. I think it has less to do with the market, and more to do with the individual. Those who went to a t14, got good grades, yet remain unemployed are probably socially retarded. Most of them expect the job to find them, but they have no real life experience outside of academia.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby tea_drinker » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:47 pm

General Tso wrote:
tbldc2009 wrote:So if I attend BYU law, the discussion of high debt, low paying jobs is not applicable to me, yes?

:lol: :lol: :lol:


what are you so proud of, exactly? what is the difference between this and taking a scholarship at WUSTL, attending an in-state school, etc.?
:?: :?: :?:

btw the high debt part may not apply to all, but the low paying job part certainly does.


I was not being proud, and I am looking at in-state schools as well. My point is I dont understand why people choose to take out big amount of loan for school and now complain because they dont get a high paying job. I mean those schools didn't force anyone to attend (arguably in the exception of ED).

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vanwinkle
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Sep 14, 2010 12:52 pm

JakeL wrote:There's a reason these people are on this board complaining instead of getting paid. I think it has less to do with the market, and more to do with the individual. Those who went to a t14, got good grades, yet remain unemployed are probably socially retarded. Most of them expect the job to find them, but they have no real life experience outside of academia.

This is a little too strong, let's not go that far with the language.

I will agree that interviewing skills seem to have a large impact on employment, more than people entering law school expect. The "good grades = big $$$ offers" model is gone, and even with good grades you've still got to be the type of person they're looking for. That's not to say you're unemployable if you can't interview well with BigLaw firms, just that you're likely to have to find employment elsewhere, which will result in lower starting income.

JeanMarie
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby JeanMarie » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:59 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
JakeL wrote:There's a reason these people are on this board complaining instead of getting paid. I think it has less to do with the market, and more to do with the individual. Those who went to a t14, got good grades, yet remain unemployed are probably socially retarded. Most of them expect the job to find them, but they have no real life experience outside of academia.

This is a little too strong, let's not go that far with the language.

I will agree that interviewing skills seem to have a large impact on employment, more than people entering law school expect. The "good grades = big $$$ offers" model is gone, and even with good grades you've still got to be the type of person they're looking for. That's not to say you're unemployable if you can't interview well with BigLaw firms, just that you're likely to have to find employment elsewhere, which will result in lower starting income.


If I had a job, I wouldn't be on here. I'm not socially retarded. If it happens to you, will you tell yourself that you are socially retarded too? Or does only apply to the Class of 2010, the class that had no warning about the DISASTER of the legal market? the class that had no idea what a "scam-blog" was?

Yeah, right. That's what I thought.

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romothesavior
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby romothesavior » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:01 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
JakeL wrote:There's a reason these people are on this board complaining instead of getting paid. I think it has less to do with the market, and more to do with the individual. Those who went to a t14, got good grades, yet remain unemployed are probably socially retarded. Most of them expect the job to find them, but they have no real life experience outside of academia.

This is a little too strong, let's not go that far with the language.

I will agree that interviewing skills seem to have a large impact on employment, more than people entering law school expect. The "good grades = big $$$ offers" model is gone, and even with good grades you've still got to be the type of person they're looking for. That's not to say you're unemployable if you can't interview well with BigLaw firms, just that you're likely to have to find employment elsewhere, which will result in lower starting income.


If I had a job, I wouldn't be on here. I'm not socially retarded. If it happens to you, will you tell yourself that you are socially retarded too? Or does only apply to the Class of 2010, the class that had no warning about the DISASTER of the legal market? the class that had no idea what a "scam-blog" was?

Yeah, right. That's what I thought.


Oh hai you're still here?

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paratactical
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby paratactical » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:01 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
JakeL wrote:There's a reason these people are on this board complaining instead of getting paid. I think it has less to do with the market, and more to do with the individual. Those who went to a t14, got good grades, yet remain unemployed are probably socially retarded. Most of them expect the job to find them, but they have no real life experience outside of academia.

This is a little too strong, let's not go that far with the language.

I will agree that interviewing skills seem to have a large impact on employment, more than people entering law school expect. The "good grades = big $$$ offers" model is gone, and even with good grades you've still got to be the type of person they're looking for. That's not to say you're unemployable if you can't interview well with BigLaw firms, just that you're likely to have to find employment elsewhere, which will result in lower starting income.


If I had a job, I wouldn't be on here. I'm not socially retarded. If it happens to you, will you tell yourself that you are socially retarded too? Or does only apply to the Class of 2010, the class that had no warning about the DISASTER of the legal market? the class that had no idea what a "scam-blog" was?

Yeah, right. That's what I thought.


So, you can't read well enough to realize that vanwinkle was against the use of the term socially retarded and you wonder why you don't have a job? LULZ.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:10 pm

JeanMarie wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
JakeL wrote:There's a reason these people are on this board complaining instead of getting paid. I think it has less to do with the market, and more to do with the individual. Those who went to a t14, got good grades, yet remain unemployed are probably socially retarded. Most of them expect the job to find them, but they have no real life experience outside of academia.

This is a little too strong, let's not go that far with the language.

I will agree that interviewing skills seem to have a large impact on employment, more than people entering law school expect. The "good grades = big $$$ offers" model is gone, and even with good grades you've still got to be the type of person they're looking for. That's not to say you're unemployable if you can't interview well with BigLaw firms, just that you're likely to have to find employment elsewhere, which will result in lower starting income.

If I had a job, I wouldn't be on here. I'm not socially retarded. If it happens to you, will you tell yourself that you are socially retarded too? Or does only apply to the Class of 2010, the class that had no warning about the DISASTER of the legal market? the class that had no idea what a "scam-blog" was?

Yeah, right. That's what I thought.

I was issuing a warning against the use of the phrase "socially retarded". Since you used it after I warned not to go there, 24-hour tempban. Please, everyone, let's stop using that phrase altogether, so I don't have to ban anyone else.




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