Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

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whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:03 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Out of curiosity: how many people made it through the first post before deciding that they didn't believe it?

I'm curious because I think that TLS is often accused of being too optimistic, and I think there is something to that. People throw around 2009 NLJ hiring as if that is in any way indicative of what 0L/1Ls will be facing -- THOSE PEOPLE DID OCI IN 2007.

Anyway, I'm only asking you all - especially 0Ls - to take these thoughts into serious consideration. You might conclude that this is still what you want, and if so, good on you. Just don't disregard this as "just another troll," because there is a lot of truth in that post.


Really? All those TTT threads and t14 or bust elitism makes me think otherwise....


It's not elitism in my book - it's the industry. The same law students on this forum will go and potentially start hiring in the relatively short future; chances are that this "elitism" is for the better and if anything, should be YHSC or bust.


Well elitism tends to be contrary to optimism in many cases. I see so many threads here where people are adamant about attending a TTT school because they are certain that they have the skills to succeed and that the only reason they are going to a TTT instead of a T1 is because the LSAT is a bullshit test.

TLSers tend to cut down these optimists with borderline diabolical brutality.

I just don't think TLSers can be considered as "optimistic". More like realistic if anything else.

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blackwater88
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby blackwater88 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:05 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Out of curiosity: how many people made it through the first post before deciding that they didn't believe it?

I'm curious because I think that TLS is often accused of being too optimistic, and I think there is something to that. People throw around 2009 NLJ hiring as if that is in any way indicative of what 0L/1Ls will be facing -- THOSE PEOPLE DID OCI IN 2007.

Anyway, I'm only asking you all - especially 0Ls - to take these thoughts into serious consideration. You might conclude that this is still what you want, and if so, good on you. Just don't disregard this as "just another troll," because there is a lot of truth in that post.


Really? All those TTT threads and t14 or bust elitism makes me think otherwise....


It's not elitism in my book - it's the industry. The same law students on this forum will go and potentially start hiring in the relatively short future; chances are that this "elitism" is for the better and if anything, should be YHSC or bust.


Well elitism tends to be contrary to optimism in many cases. I see so many threads here where people are adamant about attending a TTT school because they are certain that they have the skills to succeed and that the only reason they are going to a TTT instead of a T1 is because the LSAT is a bullshit test.

TLSers tend to cut down these optimists with borderline diabolical brutality.

I just don't think TLSers can be considered as "optimistic". More like realistic if anything else.


I'm curious, what tier are you aiming for?

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kalvano
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby kalvano » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:05 pm

spondee wrote:
kalvano wrote:I only ask because all of the 2L / 3L students I have asked or spoken with at my school have something lined up.


It's only the beginning of September, and they each already have something lined up?



Sorry, was in a hurry.

Clarification - they had something over the summer, a callback, something. The market isn't dead.

hijodehombre
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby hijodehombre » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:07 pm

kalvano wrote:
spondee wrote:
kalvano wrote:I only ask because all of the 2L / 3L students I have asked or spoken with at my school have something lined up.


It's only the beginning of September, and they each already have something lined up?



Sorry, was in a hurry.

Clarification - they had something over the summer, a callback, something. The market isn't dead.


it's just on life-support

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:07 pm

rayiner wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Out of curiosity: how many people made it through the first post before deciding that they didn't believe it?

I'm curious because I think that TLS is often accused of being too optimistic, and I think there is something to that. People throw around 2009 NLJ hiring as if that is in any way indicative of what 0L/1Ls will be facing -- THOSE PEOPLE DID OCI IN 2007.

Anyway, I'm only asking you all - especially 0Ls - to take these thoughts into serious consideration. You might conclude that this is still what you want, and if so, good on you. Just don't disregard this as "just another troll," because there is a lot of truth in that post.


Really? All those TTT threads and t14 or bust elitism makes me think otherwise....


It's not elitism in my book - it's the industry. The same law students on this forum will go and potentially start hiring in the relatively short future; chances are that this "elitism" is for the better and if anything, should be YHSC or bust.


I had a biglaw partner after a callback make a joke to me about someone going to a shitty school (solid regional T2).


...Did you get hired? The answer sounds obvious - but I know a lawyer who went to a solid regional T2 and is now a partner for a firm where elitism is rampant. Why did this lawyer make partner? Probably because of the book of business.

Classygal87
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby Classygal87 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:08 pm

I find this post exaggerated a little. Im sure some of the points are true and valid, but i don't think it should in any way discourage anyone from law school if they are in it for the right reasons.
If you love law and are passionate about it then law school is a great place for you.
Yes the job market is bad right now but it's bad all across the board people from
all disciplines are out of work. The successful people do what they have to in order to
survive and find a way to be where they want to be.
Complaining about your situation or warning others will not change it.
I know many successful lawyers that have not always worked at big firms,
and some that didn't go to a T-14 but they found a way to get to wherever they
wanted to be.

My point is go to law school because its what you want to do and where you want to be.
If you want a certain job or to work for a certain type of firm after graduation find a way to make it happen.
Maybe someone doesn't start off where they want because the market is so bad, but it's where you finish that counts.

This is just my opinion and how I view things.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:09 pm

I'm curious, what tier are you aiming for?


Aiming for lower t14 schools.

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kalvano
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby kalvano » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:09 pm

hijodehombre wrote:
kalvano wrote:
spondee wrote:
kalvano wrote:I only ask because all of the 2L / 3L students I have asked or spoken with at my school have something lined up.


It's only the beginning of September, and they each already have something lined up?



Sorry, was in a hurry.

Clarification - they had something over the summer, a callback, something. The market isn't dead.


it's just on life-support



And again, my question is how much of that is for NYC and D.C. and the ultra-saturated markets?

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:10 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
I'm curious, what tier are you aiming for?


Aiming for lower t14 schools.



You're screwed

whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:11 pm

Classygal87 wrote:I find this post exaggerated a little. Im sure some of the points are true and valid, but i don't think it should in any way discourage anyone from law school if they are in it for the right reasons.
If you love law and are passionate about it then law school is a great place for you.
Yes the job market is bad right now but it's bad all across the board people from
all disciplines are out of work. The successful people do what they have to in order to
survive and find a way to be where they want to be.
Complaining about your situation or warning others will not change it.
I know many successful lawyers that have not always worked at big firms,
and some that didn't go to a T-14 but they found a way to get to wherever they
wanted to be.

My point is go to law school because its what you want to do and where you want to be.
If you want a certain job or to work for a certain type of firm after graduation find a way to make it happen.
Maybe someone doesn't start off where they want because the market is so bad, but it's where you finish that counts.

This is just my opinion and how I view things.


I'm sorry but this just isn't true. Just because you love law and are passionate about it, it doesn't mean that law school is a great place for you.

Like with all other jobs, just loving it and having a passion for it isn't enough for you to be able to make a living out of doing it.

Especially in a field like law where the market is crowded and jobs are rare if you didn't graduate from a top school or have top grades.

digitalcntrl
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby digitalcntrl » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:12 pm

rayiner wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:Out of curiosity: how many people made it through the first post before deciding that they didn't believe it?

I'm curious because I think that TLS is often accused of being too optimistic, and I think there is something to that. People throw around 2009 NLJ hiring as if that is in any way indicative of what 0L/1Ls will be facing -- THOSE PEOPLE DID OCI IN 2007.

Anyway, I'm only asking you all - especially 0Ls - to take these thoughts into serious consideration. You might conclude that this is still what you want, and if so, good on you. Just don't disregard this as "just another troll," because there is a lot of truth in that post.


Really? All those TTT threads and t14 or bust elitism makes me think otherwise....


It's not elitism in my book - it's the industry. The same law students on this forum will go and potentially start hiring in the relatively short future; chances are that this "elitism" is for the better and if anything, should be YHSC or bust.


I had a biglaw partner after a callback make a joke to me about someone going to a shitty school (solid regional T2).


ITE for Biglaw, T2 is shitty.

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blackwater88
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby blackwater88 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:13 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
I'm curious, what tier are you aiming for?


Aiming for lower t14 schools.


Same here, and "T14 or bust" is more realistic than pessimistic.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:14 pm

Classygal87 wrote:I find this post exaggerated a little. Im sure some of the points are true and valid, but i don't think it should in any way discourage anyone from law school if they are in it for the right reasons.
If you love law and are passionate about it then law school is a great place for you.
Yes the job market is bad right now but it's bad all across the board people from
all disciplines are out of work. The successful people do what they have to in order to
survive and find a way to be where they want to be.
Complaining about your situation or warning others will not change it.
I know many successful lawyers that have not always worked at big firms,
and some that didn't go to a T-14 but they found a way to get to wherever they
wanted to be.

My point is go to law school because its what you want to do and where you want to be.
If you want a certain job or to work for a certain type of firm after graduation find a way to make it happen.
Maybe someone doesn't start off where they want because the market is so bad, but it's where you finish that counts.

This is just my opinion and how I view things.


I just read this out loud like a poem.

Well played.

Though it's true that where you finish is what counts - there is a method to getting what you want.

T14 + LR -> Clerkship -> Academia/Big Law -> Profit.

T14 -> Big Law -> Lobbyist -> Profit.

T2 + LR -> Mid-Law -> Open Practice -> Profit.

From the responses I've gotten, there will just be some things that will qualify as, "You have to pay to play!"

digitalcntrl
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby digitalcntrl » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:14 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
I'm sorry but this just isn't true. Just because you love law and are passionate about it, it doesn't mean that law school is a great place for you.

Like with all other jobs, just loving it and having a passion for it isn't enough for you to be able to make a living out of doing it.

Especially in a field like law where the market is crowded and jobs are rare if you didn't graduate from a top school or have top grades.


I think bigger issue is that everything else out there is even shittier. As Mystal said, LS appears to be a 3 year fallout shelter.

whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:15 pm

blackwater88 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
I'm curious, what tier are you aiming for?


Aiming for lower t14 schools.


Same here, and "T14 or bust" is more realistic than pessimistic.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1


I find that many people confuse realism with pessimism.

And yeh, the reason I'm aiming for a lower t14 school isn't because I want to be a raging dickhead and make fun of TTT students, it's because I want a job that can pay off my debts.

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blackwater88
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby blackwater88 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:16 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
And yeh, the reason I'm aiming for a lower t14 school isn't because I want to be a raging dickhead and make fun of TTT students, it's because I want a job that can pay off my debts.


No one in this thread is doing that.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:17 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:
rayiner wrote:
I had a biglaw partner after a callback make a joke to me about someone going to a shitty school (solid regional T2).


ITE for Biglaw, T2 is shitty.



yeah um you didn't need put "ite" or "for biglaw"

whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:17 pm

digitalcntrl wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
I'm sorry but this just isn't true. Just because you love law and are passionate about it, it doesn't mean that law school is a great place for you.

Like with all other jobs, just loving it and having a passion for it isn't enough for you to be able to make a living out of doing it.

Especially in a field like law where the market is crowded and jobs are rare if you didn't graduate from a top school or have top grades.


I think bigger issue is that everything else out there is even shittier. As Mystal said, LS appears to be a 3 year fallout shelter.


There are many jobs out there that don't require 3 years + 160k in debt that pays as well as if not better than what many law school grads are making.

Having 160k in debt with a J.D and no job is far worse than being out of college and unemployed without a J.D and no debt.

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rayiner
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby rayiner » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:17 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
rayiner wrote:I had a biglaw partner after a callback make a joke to me about someone going to a shitty school (solid regional T2).


...Did you get hired? The answer sounds obvious - but I know a lawyer who went to a solid regional T2 and is now a partner for a firm where elitism is rampant. Why did this lawyer make partner? Probably because of the book of business.


I go to a T14. The partner definitely said it in a "just amongst us T14 folks" sort of way. The thing is he's actually a really nice person. The elitism is so deeply ingrained into the culture that people don't even think about it.

That being said, it's hardly unique to law, nor is it really unwarranted. We live in an age of federally-backed loans and merit-based admissions. It's not like in the past where you went to Harvard because your family was rich and blue-blooded. Anyone can go to Harvard --- you just need to make the grades and get the test scores. It's not "elitism" in the traditional sense.

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doyleoil
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby doyleoil » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:18 pm

Part of the problem is that no one bothers to tell most people that they're dumb until they get to law school.

And the LSAT and your undergrad GPA in _______ Studies are no indicator of your intelligence.

And even when you're smart, there's a serious chance you're too lazy to follow through on an entire year of law school tasks.

So the odds are against you.

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blackwater88
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby blackwater88 » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:18 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Classygal87 wrote:I find this post exaggerated a little. Im sure some of the points are true and valid, but i don't think it should in any way discourage anyone from law school if they are in it for the right reasons.
If you love law and are passionate about it then law school is a great place for you.
Yes the job market is bad right now but it's bad all across the board people from
all disciplines are out of work. The successful people do what they have to in order to
survive and find a way to be where they want to be.
Complaining about your situation or warning others will not change it.
I know many successful lawyers that have not always worked at big firms,
and some that didn't go to a T-14 but they found a way to get to wherever they
wanted to be.

My point is go to law school because its what you want to do and where you want to be.
If you want a certain job or to work for a certain type of firm after graduation find a way to make it happen.
Maybe someone doesn't start off where they want because the market is so bad, but it's where you finish that counts.

This is just my opinion and how I view things.


I just read this out loud like a poem.

Well played.

Though it's true that where you finish is what counts - there is a method to getting what you want.

T14 + LR -> Clerkship -> Academia/Big Law -> Profit.

T14 -> Big Law -> Lobbyist -> Profit.

T2 + LR -> Mid-Law -> Open Practice -> Profit.

From the responses I've gotten, there will just be some things that will qualify as, "You have to pay to play!"


Where do I find this mythical Mid-Law? I thought it was nothing more than 0L wishful thinking.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:18 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
blackwater88 wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
I'm curious, what tier are you aiming for?


Aiming for lower t14 schools.


Same here, and "T14 or bust" is more realistic than pessimistic.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNLJ.jsp?id=1202443758843&slreturn=1&hbxlogin=1


I find that many people confuse realism with pessimism.

And yeh, the reason I'm aiming for a lower t14 school isn't because I want to be a raging dickhead and make fun of TTT students, it's because I want a job that can pay off my debts.


I'm sorry, you're not enough of a raging dickhead to make partner, even with your multi-million dollar book of business. Go make fun of more TTT's around the office - go on.. they're running around and look like this:
--ImageRemoved--

whymeohgodno
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:19 pm

doyleoil wrote:Part of the problem is that no one bothers to tell most people that they're dumb until they get to law school.

And the LSAT and your undergrad GPA in _______ Studies are no indicator of your intelligence.

And even when you're smart, there's a serious chance you're too lazy to follow through on an entire year of law school tasks.

So the odds are against you.


+1

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ResolutePear
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:19 pm

blackwater88 wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Classygal87 wrote:I find this post exaggerated a little. Im sure some of the points are true and valid, but i don't think it should in any way discourage anyone from law school if they are in it for the right reasons.
If you love law and are passionate about it then law school is a great place for you.
Yes the job market is bad right now but it's bad all across the board people from
all disciplines are out of work. The successful people do what they have to in order to
survive and find a way to be where they want to be.
Complaining about your situation or warning others will not change it.
I know many successful lawyers that have not always worked at big firms,
and some that didn't go to a T-14 but they found a way to get to wherever they
wanted to be.

My point is go to law school because its what you want to do and where you want to be.
If you want a certain job or to work for a certain type of firm after graduation find a way to make it happen.
Maybe someone doesn't start off where they want because the market is so bad, but it's where you finish that counts.

This is just my opinion and how I view things.


I just read this out loud like a poem.

Well played.

Though it's true that where you finish is what counts - there is a method to getting what you want.

T14 + LR -> Clerkship -> Academia/Big Law -> Profit.

T14 -> Big Law -> Lobbyist -> Profit.

T2 + LR -> Mid-Law -> Open Practice -> Profit.

From the responses I've gotten, there will just be some things that will qualify as, "You have to pay to play!"


Where do I find this mythical Mid-Law? I thought it was nothing more than 0L wishful thinking.


Mid Law is Big Law billables (2200+) with small firm/PI pay (35k).

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Law School Is a DISASTROUS Decision Even for Many at T14

Postby D. H2Oman » Sat Sep 11, 2010 8:21 pm

ResolutePear wrote:Mid Law is Big Law billables (2200+) with small firm/PI pay (35k).




I like you bro



no homo




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