Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

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2ofspades
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby 2ofspades » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:24 am

firemedicprelaw wrote:LSAT trumps GPA.

Not at Boalt.

09042014
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby 09042014 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:28 am

firemedicprelaw wrote:Great to note that the GPA from my undergrad institution is further devalued... I wonder if I go down into the 2.8-2.9 range because of this.... :cry:

Whatever. LSAT trumps GPA.


3.3 isn't getting boalt from any school.

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Ken
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby Ken » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:35 am

Having went to Boalt from 1995 to 1998 I recall that this system later changed in reaction to Proposition 209, which eliminated race as a factor in admissions for California schools. Boalt then went to a more touchy feely system where applications were evaluated more holistically. This was supposedly done to consider applicants entire background and look beyone the numbers, but many claimed this change was needed to admit more under represented minorities for at the nadir only one black student matriculated in 1997. Thus, soon after this article was published Boalt went to work on creating a new application system that eliminated this boost for Ivy League schools and more importantly, put less emphasis on LSAT (which is why Boalt focuses on LSAT scores less than any other top 10 law school).

Critics called the new change in admissions criteria simply a back door policy of reimplementing affirmative action. Proponents hailed this as a victory in allowing the law school to focus on the entire individual and get excellent, overall applicants and bring some diversity back to Boalt (now Berkeley as we all know). Regardless of your position, the upshot is that Berkeley places more weight on your soft factors such as background and personal statement than any other law school and you are wise to craft a strong personal statement to reflect its import in Berkeley admissions.

The following intereview I took of Dean Tom (Dean of Admissions) at Berkeley states that the personal statement and other factors carries an equal third weight in determining admissions along with GPA and LSAT. This interview has great tips and should be read by anyone applying to Berkeley:


http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html

Best regards,

Ken

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violinst
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby violinst » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:43 am

Ken wrote:Having went to Boalt from 1995 to 1998 I recall that this system later changed in reaction to Proposition 209, which eliminated race as a factor in admissions for California schools. Boalt then went to a more touchy feely system where applications were evaluated more holistically. This was supposedly done to consider applicants entire background and look beyone the numbers, but many claimed this change was needed to admit more under represented minorities for at the nadir only one black student matriculated in 1997. Thus, soon after this article was published Boalt went to work on creating a new application system that eliminated this boost for Ivy League schools and more importantly, put less emphasis on LSAT (which is why Boalt focuses on LSAT scores less than any other top 10 law school).

Critics called the new change in admissions criteria simply a back door policy of reimplementing affirmative action. Proponents hailed this as a victory in allowing the law school to focus on the entire individual and get excellent, overall applicants and bring some diversity back to Boalt (now Berkeley as we all know). Regardless of your position, the upshot is that Berkeley places more weight on your soft factors such as background and personal statement than any other law school and you are wise to craft a strong personal statement to reflect its import in Berkeley admissions.

The following intereview I took of Dean Tom (Dean of Admissions) at Berkeley states that the personal statement and other factors carries an equal third weight in determining admissions along with GPA and LSAT. This interview has great tips and should be read by anyone applying to Berkeley:


http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html

Best regards,

Ken


Thanks for the clarification.

(1st post edited.)

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acrossthelake
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:43 am

Ken made a post in this thread. I feel like it's been touched by a celebrity.

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Hannibal
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby Hannibal » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:44 am

acrossthelake wrote:Ken made a post in this thread. I feel like it's been touched by a celebrity.


Agreed. Ken comin in to lay a smackdown of knowledge up in this thread.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby DoubleChecks » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:50 am

Ken wrote:Having went to Boalt from 1995 to 1998 I recall that this system later changed in reaction to Proposition 209, which eliminated race as a factor in admissions for California schools. Boalt then went to a more touchy feely system where applications were evaluated more holistically. This was supposedly done to consider applicants entire background and look beyone the numbers, but many claimed this change was needed to admit more under represented minorities for at the nadir only one black student matriculated in 1997. Thus, soon after this article was published Boalt went to work on creating a new application system that eliminated this boost for Ivy League schools and more importantly, put less emphasis on LSAT (which is why Boalt focuses on LSAT scores less than any other top 10 law school).

Critics called the new change in admissions criteria simply a back door policy of reimplementing affirmative action. Proponents hailed this as a victory in allowing the law school to focus on the entire individual and get excellent, overall applicants and bring some diversity back to Boalt (now Berkeley as we all know). Regardless of your position, the upshot is that Berkeley places more weight on your soft factors such as background and personal statement than any other law school and you are wise to craft a strong personal statement to reflect its import in Berkeley admissions.

The following intereview I took of Dean Tom (Dean of Admissions) at Berkeley states that the personal statement and other factors carries an equal third weight in determining admissions along with GPA and LSAT. This interview has great tips and should be read by anyone applying to Berkeley:


http://www.top-law-schools.com/tom-interview.html

Best regards,

Ken


exactly what i was going to say, except i had no specific facts to back me up lol

Pip
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby Pip » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:56 am

Sadly there are probably a lot of admission offices that do similar things... Yes there is probably some grade inflation at some schools, but even if you went to a school with notoriously high grade inflation you could probably find some majors where the grade inflation was less of an issue. I know in my own undergrad university there were certainly differences... if you were getting a degree in English Lit you could easily get a very high GPA, get an engineering degree and you would be busting your butt to maintain a 3.2...

The trouble with moronic scale like that is that it doesn't catch those differences, it was just a tool by lazy admission's officers to make their job easier and keep them from having to actually look at each application that they are being paid to look at. Frankly if a board of regents ever finds that their admission office in law school or any other program is doing lazy things like this they should fire them all and hire people that are willing to do the job they are paid to do.

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violinst
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby violinst » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:11 pm

Pip wrote:Sadly there are probably a lot of admission offices that do similar things... Yes there is probably some grade inflation at some schools, but even if you went to a school with notoriously high grade inflation you could probably find some majors where the grade inflation was less of an issue. I know in my own undergrad university there were certainly differences... if you were getting a degree in English Lit you could easily get a very high GPA, get an engineering degree and you would be busting your butt to maintain a 3.2...

The trouble with moronic scale like that is that it doesn't catch those differences, it was just a tool by lazy admission's officers to make their job easier and keep them from having to actually look at each application that they are being paid to look at. Frankly if a board of regents ever finds that their admission office in law school or any other program is doing lazy things like this they should fire them all and hire people that are willing to do the job they are paid to do.



A rigid formula though is never a good thing.

Medical schools have lots of applicants but are still able to conduct interviews. Why couldn't law schools?

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acrossthelake
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:24 pm

violinst wrote:
Pip wrote:Sadly there are probably a lot of admission offices that do similar things... Yes there is probably some grade inflation at some schools, but even if you went to a school with notoriously high grade inflation you could probably find some majors where the grade inflation was less of an issue. I know in my own undergrad university there were certainly differences... if you were getting a degree in English Lit you could easily get a very high GPA, get an engineering degree and you would be busting your butt to maintain a 3.2...

The trouble with moronic scale like that is that it doesn't catch those differences, it was just a tool by lazy admission's officers to make their job easier and keep them from having to actually look at each application that they are being paid to look at. Frankly if a board of regents ever finds that their admission office in law school or any other program is doing lazy things like this they should fire them all and hire people that are willing to do the job they are paid to do.



A rigid formula though is never a good thing.

Medical schools have lots of applicants but are still able to conduct interviews. Why couldn't law schools?


Interviews are incredibly unreliable and inconsistently administered. Research I've seen in classes I've taken into the effectiveness of interviews for grad school school admissions often reveals it to be rather unfair. I'm glad they aren't a main component of law school admissions.

thechee
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby thechee » Tue Sep 07, 2010 12:45 pm

This policy is no longer in effect.

This article from the LA Times lays out the weighting system:
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/jul/16/local/me-13288

And this one says that it was repealed in '97:
http://articles.latimes.com/1997/nov/27/news/mn-58146

But, even though such grade weighting is no longer an official policy, I would not be surprised if the perception of grading difficulty indicated by this chart still persists in the admissions office. At least, that's how I explain my being admitted with a 3.6 (my LAC had an index above 87 on their chart).

firemed
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby firemed » Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
3.3 isn't getting boalt from any school.


Wow! Thanks for letting me know... I might have missed that and applied to all kinds of top schools with my 3.05 if you hadn't come in and told me that! :P

Seriously though, I was commenting on schools in general, as the thread seemed to be discussing if other schools did this. I am aware that Boalt values GPA higher, and I am also aware that my GPA isn't getting me into any of the T14 unless I get a 180, and probably not even then. My impression has been, however, that given the way scores were weighted by schools that the majority of schools preferred high LSAT to high GPA.

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nematoad
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby nematoad » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:03 pm

I'm surprised that the better UC's didn't get a boost

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Boalt Hall's secret recipe on grade inflation- t120 schools

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Wed Sep 08, 2010 7:09 pm

I like how Boalt measures GPA in conjunction with the LSAT, in conjunction with the LSAT.




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