NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
op-ti
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby op-ti » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:08 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:

I've actually changed my mind, and am just ignoring the CPE's and sending 4 letters. Worst case they're mad I didn't read directions/ didn't follow them. More likely they ignore my letters. Best case they don't care.


Dont do this...they wont simply be mad....they might straight up reject you without giving the rest of your file a proper look at for not following their instructions. This is not an impression you want to give IMO.

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im_blue
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby im_blue » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:48 pm

Arbiter213 wrote:
kazu wrote:
Arbiter213 wrote:At this point I have almost no interest in applying to NU, and would forgo it if not for my fee waiver...

Anyone else just gonna skip sending LOR's?

If I do apply (haven't decided yet although I do have a fee waiver) I'm not going to send anything either.



I've actually changed my mind, and am just ignoring the CPE's and sending 4 letters. Worst case they're mad I didn't read directions/ didn't follow them. More likely they ignore my letters. Best case they don't care.

:?

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CGI Fridays
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby CGI Fridays » Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:56 pm

This is singlehandedly the most snobbish thing I've ever heard of in the admissions process.
Why not just say "If you send an LOR, it's gotta be from an employer, supervisor or co-worker"???

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im_blue
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby im_blue » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:22 pm

CGI Fridays wrote:This is singlehandedly the most snobbish thing I've ever heard of in the admissions process.
Why not just say "If you send an LOR, it's gotta be from an employer, supervisor or co-worker"???

NU is a special snowflake of a law school:

"It was at this point that many a reader threw up their hands in exasperation and exclaimed that they just didn't get it. Why no more Letters of Rec? Why a special form? Why Northwestern, why?

First and foremost, please continue to be aware that the CPE is an optional submission, which is accepted in lieu of any letters of recommendation.

The Career Progress Evaluation form -- aka CPE -- is an evaluation of your professional work-related performance, which elaborates on topics such as project management and career focus. As a school that openly prefers work experience, we believe the information we receive from this form is an asset to your application. Basically, we are giving you the opportunity to tell us exactly what we want to know about you, as an applicant.

We are asking specific, focused, questions about what we want to know. Normal letters of rec are, for the most part, broad sweeping statements about an applicant, which may or may not be helpful to us."

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Arbiter213
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby Arbiter213 » Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:37 pm

im_blue wrote:
CGI Fridays wrote:This is singlehandedly the most snobbish thing I've ever heard of in the admissions process.
Why not just say "If you send an LOR, it's gotta be from an employer, supervisor or co-worker"???

NU is a special snowflake of a law school:

"It was at this point that many a reader threw up their hands in exasperation and exclaimed that they just didn't get it. Why no more Letters of Rec? Why a special form? Why Northwestern, why?

First and foremost, please continue to be aware that the CPE is an optional submission, which is accepted in lieu of any letters of recommendation.

The Career Progress Evaluation form -- aka CPE -- is an evaluation of your professional work-related performance, which elaborates on topics such as project management and career focus. As a school that openly prefers work experience, we believe the information we receive from this form is an asset to your application. Basically, we are giving you the opportunity to tell us exactly what we want to know about you, as an applicant.

We are asking specific, focused, questions about what we want to know. Normal letters of rec are, for the most part, broad sweeping statements about an applicant, which may or may not be helpful to us."


In light of this, I'm sticking to my plan.

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ahduth
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby ahduth » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:13 am

im_blue wrote:The Career Progress Evaluation form -- aka CPE -- is an evaluation of your professional work-related performance, which elaborates on topics such as project management and career focus.


Yeah, I'm pretty confused overall. It's clear they don't want college kids. That much is fair enough. But who do they want? Following are those questions on the CPRE:

c. Career focus (e.g. clarity of post-degree plans, active participation in career development)


You've been working with someone doing XYZ for a given amount of time. Now you're applying to law school. Unless you're a paralegal, what are they supposed to say about your career focus? "Seemed great, until I got this ridiculous form."

d. Project Management skills (e.g. ability to follow, lead, and direct projects in a professional capacity)


You're someone who's in a position to lead and direct projects. While this may help you at more senior levels within (large) law firms, how applicable is this to the practice of law really? And furthermore, how crazy are you to be career changing at this point? If you're doing project management work at an engineering firm and you're now trying to become a lawyer, I'd probably question your judgment.

Basically it all reads like a business school application. Which is the model they're moving towards, particularly with the AJD, and the general "make our grads employable" ethos that seems to be their current MO. I'm not terribly familiar with Northwestern's approach, but what I've been reading is that they seem hellbent on getting people jobs here in Chicago, and if that's working, great. Part of why I'm surprised more schools don't just auto-reject kids straight out of school anyhow.

And realistically, LORs only count for so much with any school. It just seems particularly boneheaded of them to assume that standard LORs won't address these attributes. Pretty much all my employer reference is going to address is points A, B, C, D, E and F. I'm just not positive I want to annoy him to fill out an entirely separate form for one school out of the dozen I'm applying to. He will continue to be an important contact well after this whole affair is done and over with - not sure how hard I want to lean on him in order to get into Northwestern.

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IAFG
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby IAFG » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:26 am

CGI Fridays wrote:This is singlehandedly the most snobbish thing I've ever heard of in the admissions process.
Why not just say "If you send an LOR, it's gotta be from an employer, supervisor or co-worker"???

That used to be the case. The admissions office apparently did not think that type of letter was helpful, so they're trying this. You don't have to submit anything. There is nothing remotely snobbish about it.

r6_philly
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:29 am

CGI Fridays wrote:This is singlehandedly the most snobbish thing I've ever heard of in the admissions process.
Why not just say "If you send an LOR, it's gotta be from an employer, supervisor or co-worker"???


When you open your law school, don't hire anyone from NU! :wink:

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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:30 am

They did not appear to be interested in my LOR's or LSAC evaluations at my interview. Liked my resume though.

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IAFG
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby IAFG » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:35 am

r6_philly wrote:They did not appear to be interested in my LOR's or LSAC evaluations at my interview. Liked my resume though.

Wisely, NU tries to recruit students it can place. That said they're number crunchers and if you have 1+ years WE and decent numbers, you're getting in. Or terrible numbers but an above-median LSAT.

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Lwoods
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby Lwoods » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:43 am

Quick post because I have to get back to work... but I wanted to follow up on my post last night...
Lwoods wrote:Hmm... I just followed up with one of my former bosses who filled out the CPE, and she said it was weird that after she hit "submit" online, it brought her back to the Northwestern homepage, no "Thank you" page or confirmation email. Is this normal?

I'll call the office tomorrow, but I just thought I'd check here.


They have the evaluation with my file. All is well; my former boss's experience was normal. She should expect to receive a confirmation email at some point, though (she submitted Monday and hadn't received one as of yesterday evening).

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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:51 am

IAFG wrote:
r6_philly wrote:They did not appear to be interested in my LOR's or LSAC evaluations at my interview. Liked my resume though.

Wisely, NU tries to recruit students it can place. That said they're number crunchers and if you have 1+ years WE and decent numbers, you're getting in. Or terrible numbers but an above-median LSAT.


That is very wise indeed. They see that I have been continuously employed for 10+ years, so in case they can't place me after graduation, I can always get a great paying job doing what I do now. They can count on me having a job 9 months post grad. Now if they would throw lots of money trying to get me to attend, then we know what their recruiting focus is.

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fatduck
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby fatduck » Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:59 pm

Lwoods wrote:Quick post because I have to get back to work... but I wanted to follow up on my post last night...
Lwoods wrote:Hmm... I just followed up with one of my former bosses who filled out the CPE, and she said it was weird that after she hit "submit" online, it brought her back to the Northwestern homepage, no "Thank you" page or confirmation email. Is this normal?

I'll call the office tomorrow, but I just thought I'd check here.


They have the evaluation with my file. All is well; my former boss's experience was normal. She should expect to receive a confirmation email at some point, though (she submitted Monday and hadn't received one as of yesterday evening).


On the actual application they ask for the name/title/email of your CPE recommender (singular)...does that imply that they only want to see one CPE form? I was planning on sending two: one from my current employer, and one from my supervisor in the Army...

r6_philly
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:28 pm

fatduck wrote:
On the actual application they ask for the name/title/email of your CPE recommender (singular)...does that imply that they only want to see one CPE form? I was planning on sending two: one from my current employer, and one from my supervisor in the Army...


I think only one is required.

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IAFG
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby IAFG » Fri Oct 22, 2010 3:38 pm

r6_philly wrote:
IAFG wrote:
r6_philly wrote:They did not appear to be interested in my LOR's or LSAC evaluations at my interview. Liked my resume though.

Wisely, NU tries to recruit students it can place. That said they're number crunchers and if you have 1+ years WE and decent numbers, you're getting in. Or terrible numbers but an above-median LSAT.


That is very wise indeed. They see that I have been continuously employed for 10+ years, so in case they can't place me after graduation, I can always get a great paying job doing what I do now. They can count on me having a job 9 months post grad. Now if they would throw lots of money trying to get me to attend, then we know what their recruiting focus is.

How arrogant of you. You're far from the only person with your credentials that they will have to choose from and you aren't a lock at CCN. If they don't, they either think you don't have a better offer at a peer or just don't like you. Still you will probably get $60k.

r6_philly
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:15 pm

IAFG wrote:How arrogant of you. You're far from the only person with your credentials that they will have to choose from and you aren't a lock at CCN. If they don't, they either think you don't have a better offer at a peer or just don't like you. Still you will probably get $60k.


It's not arrogant. If they want to recruit me over attending say Penn, where I own a house 10 minutes from school and have a job that I can continue to work at 10 minutes from school, then it stands to reason that I would expect an amount more than my salary + housing to make it a worthwhile decision. Anyone who's mid-career and doing ok with their career is going to consider these things, not just me. When recruiters call me about jobs out of my market, one of first thing thrown at me is a signing/relocation bonus. I don't see how it's different if they really want you at their school.

But I said it in a joking tone anyway. I mentioned the word "financial need" about 5 times during my interview... I was upfront about it :lol: .

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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby IAFG » Fri Oct 22, 2010 5:59 pm

r6_philly wrote:
IAFG wrote:How arrogant of you. You're far from the only person with your credentials that they will have to choose from and you aren't a lock at CCN. If they don't, they either think you don't have a better offer at a peer or just don't like you. Still you will probably get $60k.


It's not arrogant. If they want to recruit me over attending say Penn, where I own a house 10 minutes from school and have a job that I can continue to work at 10 minutes from school, then it stands to reason that I would expect an amount more than my salary + housing to make it a worthwhile decision. Anyone who's mid-career and doing ok with their career is going to consider these things, not just me. When recruiters call me about jobs out of my market, one of first thing thrown at me is a signing/relocation bonus. I don't see how it's different if they really want you at their school.

But I said it in a joking tone anyway. I mentioned the word "financial need" about 5 times during my interview... I was upfront about it :lol: .


The person you interviewed with probably has nothing to do with aid determination, and your financial reasoning is baffling to me. Why would a law school take lost income into account when determining your merit aid?

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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:45 pm

IAFG wrote:The person you interviewed with probably has nothing to do with aid determination, and your financial reasoning is baffling to me. Why would a law school take lost income into account when determining your merit aid?


She was the dean of financial aid as well. (Edit: just to be accurate, I think she is)

I don't know you are joking or not anymore... but recruiting = giving people better reasons to take the course of action you advocate. If a school is "recruiting", the the school is trying to make the cost/benefit ratio more attractive to the applicant. So if the applicant would incur more cost, then the school would have to provide more aid to off set the increased cost.

There are two aspect of recruiting:

1. Competition between prospects. The recruiter would likely determine in comparison to other prospects
2. Competition between targets of a given prospect. Here the recruiter will try to provide a lower cost/benefit ratio than the other competing recruiters.

So if you are deciding who to recruit, you give aid based on comparative metrics, the recruits you want more, you offer more aid. But once you get it one on one recruiting, you will try to out do your competitors so you would appear the most attractive among your peers, here you take in account of the person's situation.

Lost income is no consideration in need-base aid, but it has to do with merit aid/department grants, because the there is no set criteria for merit aid, they are trying to give you financial incentive to lower your cost/benefit ratio, they can consider anything they want.

manyu
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby manyu » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:07 pm

Is anyone submitting more than one CPE?

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im_blue
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby im_blue » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:09 pm

The application form only has room to put one CPE sender's information though.

manyu
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Re: NU Law Career Progress Recommendation Forms in lieu of LOR?

Postby manyu » Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:10 pm

Perfect




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