List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

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005618502
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 005618502 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:16 pm

IAFG wrote:
jt1341 wrote:all of them? even though its 3 spots ahead of V

regional school in a weak region


Regional? and is SF/LA weak? man i dont know im not a huge fan of Berkeley, but i dont see a school ranked 7 being regional

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Rand M.
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Rand M. » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:21 pm

jt1341 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
jt1341 wrote:
bk1 wrote:Cal may not fall out of the USNews T10 rankings but its rank is not very indicative of its employment prospects compared to peer schools.


How would you say its career prospects are relative to M....V....P

a lot worse.


all of them? even though its 3 spots ahead of V


srsly? 3 spots ahead? Learn quickly that USNWR is not the answer to all questions.

Also, T10 is not a meaningful descriptor.

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rayiner
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby rayiner » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:26 pm

jt1341 wrote:
IAFG wrote:
jt1341 wrote:all of them? even though its 3 spots ahead of V

regional school in a weak region


Regional? and is SF/LA weak? man i dont know im not a huge fan of Berkeley, but i dont see a school ranked 7 being regional


Berkeley's rank is due in large part to it's phenomenal reputation amongst academics. That doesn't make it a national school.

One thing ITE has revealed is that YHS are really the only truly national schools. After that, hiring becomes very regional, and a school's placement becomes very tied to the health of its region.

The V50 firms or so have an idea of how many they want to hire from each school, and those numbers are very strongly tied to history. Ie: partners at the firms who went there, how many the firm hired from there last year, etc. When market demands shift, firms don't quickly react. Given an NU grad and a Berkeley grad, a Kirkland Chicago partner who is surrounded by people who went to NU isn't going to give deference to Berkeley's #7 ranking, if they even know what the schools are ranked these days anyway!

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IAFG
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby IAFG » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:30 pm

Rand M. wrote: Learn quickly that USNWR is not the answer to all questions.

yup.

USNWR Methodology wrote:Quality Assessment (weighted by .40): Peer Assessment Score (.25) Assessment Score by Lawyers/Judges (.15)
Selectivity (weighted by .25) 
Median LSAT Scores (.125): Median Undergrad GPA (.10), Acceptance Rate (.025)
Placement Success (weighted by .20): at graduation (.04 weight ) and nine months after graduation (.14 weight)
Bar Passage Rate (.02)
Faculty Resources (weighted by .15) 
Expenditures Per Student The average instruction, library, and supporting services (.0975) are measured, as are all other items, including financial aid (.015). 
Student/Faculty Ratio (.03)
Library Resources (.0075) The total number of volumes and titles in the school's law library
Overall Rank: Data were standardized about their means, and standardized scores were weighted, totaled, and rescaled so that the top school received 100; others received their percentage of the top score. 


if you know this as an adcomm, it's not hard to game

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Grizz
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Grizz » Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:54 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
rayiner wrote:One thing ITE has revealed is that YHS are really the only truly national schools. After that, hiring becomes very regional, and a school's placement becomes very tied to the health of its region.

I feel that we should make every new forum registrant type this out, like a captcha.


You are a mod. Please make this happen.

vicuna
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby vicuna » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:20 pm

UChicago medians, according to a brochure handed out at an information session at my undergrad:

25th percentile LSAT: 168
LSAT median: 171
75th percentile LSAT: 172

25th percentile GPA: 3.59
GPA median: 3.78
75th percentile GPA: 3.87

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im_blue
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby im_blue » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:27 pm

vicuna wrote:UChicago medians, according to a brochure handed out at an information session at my undergrad:

25th percentile LSAT: 168
LSAT median: 171
75th percentile LSAT: 172

25th percentile GPA: 3.59
GPA median: 3.78
75th percentile GPA: 3.87


Thanks, updated!

2010: 168 / 171 / 172, 3.59 / 3.78 / 3.87
2009: 169 / 171 / 173, 3.63 / 3.76 / 3.84

Looks like Chicago has fallen behind both Columbia and NYU in LSAT median. Chicago's 25th percentiles also dropped, which indicates that they're the most splitter-friendly of CCN.

lakerfanimal
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby lakerfanimal » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:29 pm

vicuna wrote:UChicago medians, according to a brochure handed out at an information session at my undergrad:

25th percentile LSAT: 168
LSAT median: 171
75th percentile LSAT: 172

25th percentile GPA: 3.59
GPA median: 3.78
75th percentile GPA: 3.87


The LSAT drop is a bit surprising.

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Dany
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Dany » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:31 pm

lakerfanimal wrote:
vicuna wrote:UChicago medians, according to a brochure handed out at an information session at my undergrad:

25th percentile LSAT: 168
LSAT median: 171
75th percentile LSAT: 172

25th percentile GPA: 3.59
GPA median: 3.78
75th percentile GPA: 3.87


The LSAT drop is a bit surprising.AWESOME because Chicago is my #1!

FTFM

CanadianWolf
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:33 pm

With 20 new full tuition scholarships, Chicago's slight adjustment won't last long.

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bk1
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:35 pm

UChi's 75th is NYU's median for the LSAT?

miamiman
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby miamiman » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:36 pm

tbf, it's one stupid point. you peeps need to stop freaking out.

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bk1
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby bk1 » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:38 pm

miamiman wrote:tbf, it's one stupid point. you peeps need to stop freaking out.


Quoted for attempting to calm down future gunners.

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rayiner
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby rayiner » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 pm

miamiman wrote:tbf, it's one stupid point. you peeps need to stop freaking out.


I mean, it's just now clear where NYU got all those high LSATs to raise its median. :lol:

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im_blue
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby im_blue » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:43 pm

Kswizzie wrote:
St.Remy wrote:
jt1341 wrote:so this may sound stupid but the "new T10" that you guys were saying is just a joke right.... There is no way Berk would fall out of T10.... i mean i dont think it belongs below Duke or NW?


Berkeley probably won't be falling out of the T10 any time soon because of factors like the amount it spends per student. If schools were ranked based on student quality (as measured by the LSAT and uGPA) then Berkeley would no longer be in the T10. If you're like me and believe that student quality is a better way to rank schools than number of dollars used for each student then you probably already don't think of Berkeley as a T10 school.


The assumptions of course being that the median LSAT and UGPA are indicative of the LSAT and GPA of an average student at the school and that LSAT and UGPA are a good measure of student quality

Even without these assumptions, median LSAT and GPA are indicative of a school's relative appeal to applicants. Suppose LSAT scores were done by lottery with the same distribution as now, with everyone receiving a random score. The most popular schools would still be able to attract those with the highest numbers, assuming every school acts to maximize its medians. Berkeley departs from this assumption, because their holistic admissions review rejects many HYSCCN-caliber applicants, while accepting many applicants who otherwise wouldn't get into any other T14.

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Sentry
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Sentry » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:57 pm

eskimo wrote:
lakerfanimal wrote:
vicuna wrote:UChicago medians, according to a brochure handed out at an information session at my undergrad:

25th percentile LSAT: 168
LSAT median: 171
75th percentile LSAT: 172

25th percentile GPA: 3.59
GPA median: 3.78
75th percentile GPA: 3.87


The LSAT drop is a bit surprising.AWESOME because Chicago is my #1!

FTFM

What she said!

whymeohgodno
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 6:59 pm

I want Cornell to have their median LSAT score drop by at least 2.

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Kswizzie
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Kswizzie » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:09 pm

im_blue wrote:Even without these assumptions, median LSAT and GPA are indicative of a school's relative appeal to applicants. Suppose LSAT scores were done by lottery with the same distribution as now, with everyone receiving a random score. The most popular schools would still be able to attract those with the highest numbers, assuming every school acts to maximize its medians. Berkeley departs from this assumption, because their holistic admissions review rejects many HYSCCN-caliber applicants, while accepting many applicants who otherwise wouldn't get into any other T14.


The problem is that not all schools are equally aggressive in maximizing medians. By being splitter friendly you can do wonders for your medians though you are sacrificing student quality . I do think that your point about HYSCCN popularity is valid. It does start to get tricky when people start to make assertions about student quality within tiers when not all the schools in the tier are equally median focused in admissions.

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im_blue
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby im_blue » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:09 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:I want Cornell to have their median LSAT score drop by at least 2.

This past LSN cycle indicates that Cornell's medians probably stayed the same in the 3.6 / 167 range.

whymeohgodno
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby whymeohgodno » Thu Sep 16, 2010 7:16 pm

im_blue wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:I want Cornell to have their median LSAT score drop by at least 2.

This past LSN cycle indicates that Cornell's medians probably stayed the same in the 3.6 / 167 range.


*Crosses fingers*

vicuna
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby vicuna » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:01 pm

Trying to get a handle on what this median business may mean for my cycle.

If I have a 170/3.75, do I have a better shot at NYU (3.71/172) or Chicago (3.78/171)? I'm below both medians at Chicago, which common wisdom says means that I'm an autoreject, but I'm seemingly closer to the overall median index there.

Thoughts?

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Rand M.
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Rand M. » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:09 pm

vicuna wrote:Trying to get a handle on what this median business may mean for my cycle.

If I have a 170/3.75, do I have a better shot at NYU (3.71/172) or Chicago (3.78/171)? I'm below both medians at Chicago, which common wisdom says means that I'm an autoreject, but I'm seemingly closer to the overall median index there.

Thoughts?


ED to the one you would prefer to attend?

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im_blue
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby im_blue » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:41 pm

vicuna wrote:Trying to get a handle on what this median business may mean for my cycle.

If I have a 170/3.75, do I have a better shot at NYU (3.71/172) or Chicago (3.78/171)? I'm below both medians at Chicago, which common wisdom says means that I'm an autoreject, but I'm seemingly closer to the overall median index there.

Thoughts?

Either way you will need strong softs to be viable at Chicago or NYU. Do you have a top UG, difficult major, or any prestigious awards or jobs?

vicuna
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby vicuna » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:55 pm

im_blue wrote:
vicuna wrote:Trying to get a handle on what this median business may mean for my cycle.

If I have a 170/3.75, do I have a better shot at NYU (3.71/172) or Chicago (3.78/171)? I'm below both medians at Chicago, which common wisdom says means that I'm an autoreject, but I'm seemingly closer to the overall median index there.

Thoughts?

Either way you will need strong softs to be viable at Chicago or NYU. Do you have a top UG, difficult major, or any prestigious awards or jobs?


I have a top UG (non-HYP Ivy), two social science majors (plus an honors thesis), and your usual array of summer internships. I am a cancer survivor (age 18) and and I wrote about what I learned from that experience in my personal statement, for what that's worth. Viable?

CanadianWolf
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Sep 16, 2010 8:59 pm

In my opinion, your odds are much better at NYU since it accepts a higher % of applicants than does Chicago & since Chicago apps are likely to soar in number due to an additional 20 full tuition scholarships.




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