List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

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IAFG
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby IAFG » Mon Sep 06, 2010 9:15 am

naterj wrote:I don't understand how Iowa's medians are so low but yet its ranking stays #25.

Sheer force of awesomeness

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2ofspades
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 1:24 pm

im_blue wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:+1 to the above.

I can't believe how low Berkeley's median LSAT is. It has to be the lowest of the top 13.

Lowest of the T13 (tied with Cornell), lower than UCLA and Vandy, and tied with Texas, GW, Illinois, WUSTL, Minnesota, and USC.

What's with all the ignoring GULC's existence?

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2ofspades
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:09 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
2ofspades wrote:
im_blue wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:+1 to the above.

I can't believe how low Berkeley's median LSAT is. It has to be the lowest of the top 13.

Lowest of the T13 (tied with Cornell), lower than UCLA and Vandy, and tied with Texas, GW, Illinois, WUSTL, Minnesota, and USC.

What's with all the ignoring GULC's existence?

A decent number of statistics (including student medians, placement in the NLJ 250, etc.) indicate that G'Town might be closer to Vandy and UCLA than it is to Northwestern and Duke. Many people have taken to indicating that it is a "T13" now. This position is hardly unanimous, but it is gaining support.

That's not my point, though. The above is a list of schools with LSAT medians at or above Berkeley's. Regardless of whether G groups better with the T13 or the T17 - and I would agree it goes better with UCLA/Vandy/Texas - it's LSAT median is better than Berkeley's.

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Kswizzie
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Kswizzie » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:26 pm

Eagerly awaiting Cornell's medians to see if I still have a shot at the t-14

GettingReady2010
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby GettingReady2010 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 2:57 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
IAFG wrote:
naterj wrote:I don't understand how Iowa's medians are so low but yet its ranking stays #25.

Sheer force of awesomeness

Also, occasionally USNWR judges law schools on something other than incoming student medians.


I think Iowa is in a unique position to be ranked high because of its location. I think it's the only good law school in Iowa, which sets it up to have a high peer rating by judges and lawyers. I would bet that if it were located in New York, it would be ranked closer to 40 or 50. This is, or course, just speculation.

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2ofspades
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 4:23 pm

GettingReady2010 wrote:I think Iowa is in a unique position to be ranked high because of its location. I think it's the only good law school in Iowa, which sets it up to have a high peer rating by judges and lawyers. I would bet that if it were located in New York, it would be ranked closer to 40 or 50. This is, or course, just speculation.

+1

If Fordham wasn't nestled between CLS and NYU, there's no way it would be 34.

dissonance1848
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:12 pm

Fordham, based only on numbers, should be much higher than most top Midwestern law schools. Only WashU, UofIL and Uof MIN have numbers that match up with Fordham

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2ofspades
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:12 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
2ofspades wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:I think Iowa is in a unique position to be ranked high because of its location. I think it's the only good law school in Iowa, which sets it up to have a high peer rating by judges and lawyers. I would bet that if it were located in New York, it would be ranked closer to 40 or 50. This is, or course, just speculation.

+1

If Fordham wasn't nestled between CLS and NYU, there's no way it would be 34.

...are you saying it would be higher?

Yes.

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IAFG
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby IAFG » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:19 pm

2ofspades wrote:
Nightrunner wrote:
2ofspades wrote:If Fordham wasn't nestled between CLS and NYU, there's no way it would be 34.

...are you saying it would be higher?

Yes.

I agree. If schools were ranked on job prospects alone, F'ham would probably do a fair bit better than it does in the USNWR. That said, if they have the placement edge, who effing cares what USNWR says.

dissonance1848
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby dissonance1848 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:25 pm

Fordham is stuck in a dense market, so they are definitely at a relative disadvantage to Midwestern schools with much less esteemed competition (CLS, NYU). However, because the NYC market is a beast, Fordham's employment stats are probably stronger as well compared to many of the Midwest schools, despite their locks on local markets. Its a bit of a two-edged sword, I guess.

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2ofspades
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 2ofspades » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:38 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:Fordham, based only on numbers, should be much higher than most top Midwestern law schools. Only WashU, UofIL and Uof MIN have numbers that match up with Fordham

Well yeah, if you'd like to believe that the only factors in the quality of a legal education are two numbers incoming students earn before even attending law school, then sure.

Educational quality is not a function of student medians, but the issue we were discussing was the accuracy of the quality assessment ratings. Here you go:

Nightrunner wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:I think Iowa is in a unique position to be ranked high because of its location. I think it's the only good law school in Iowa, which sets it up to have a high peer rating by judges and lawyers. I would bet that if it were located in New York, it would be ranked closer to 40 or 50. This is, or course, just speculation.

More seriously: yes, you're on to something. The midwest is full of schools (especially Big 10 schools) who will never be elite, but who will always be well-regarded Tier 1 schools. ... They are usually helped by being the biggest or best game in town, or by being the little brother to major markets (again Illinois). ... Their academic reputation and stranglehold on home markets mean that this will probably never change.

We established that some schools receive a quality assessment boost simply due to being known as the leading school in their market/state/region. This implies that peer schools that are overshadowed by elite, nearby institutions are disadvantaged in the quality assessment. I asserted that Fordham is an example.

Nightrunner wrote:
IAFG wrote:That said, if they have the placement edge, who effing cares what USNWR says.

And yes. +1

GettingReady2010
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby GettingReady2010 » Mon Sep 06, 2010 7:46 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
IAFG wrote:That said, if they have the placement edge, who effing cares what USNWR says?



+1

But to answer your question - People who want to tell others how high there school is ranked. I can think of no other reason for some of the decisions many TLSers make on where to attend. It's kind of pathetic.

vsl89
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby vsl89 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:28 pm

Placed a call to CLS -- they said LSAT median and GPA are unchanged.

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im_blue
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby im_blue » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:42 pm

vsl89 wrote:Placed a call to CLS -- they said LSAT median and GPA are unchanged.

Thanks, updated!

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im_blue
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby im_blue » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:44 pm

Harvard 25th/75th

2010: 3.78 / 3.96, 171 / 176, 7610 apps (3.0% increase)
2009: 3.76 / 3.96, 171 / 176, 7391 apps

No median numbers available, but it's safe to say they haven't changed significantly.

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St.Remy
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby St.Remy » Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:59 pm

im_blue wrote:Harvard 25th/75th

2010: 3.78 / 3.96, 171 / 176, 7610 apps (3.0% increase)
2009: 3.76 / 3.96, 171 / 176, 7391 apps

No median numbers available, but it's safe to say they haven't changed significantly.


Argh I was hoping that something would drop (But it's nice to see that the GPA didn't rise too much at least).

dissonance1848
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby dissonance1848 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:03 pm

So, now CLS and NYU have the same medians? Shit, now how does one determine whether to ED to CLS or NYU?

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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby rundoxierun » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:10 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:So, now CLS and NYU have the same medians? Shit, now how does one determine whether to ED to CLS or NYU?


Umm the same way they always did.. by which one they like better.

dissonance1848
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby dissonance1848 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:18 pm

CLS is superior to NYU in employment prospects, campus, etc. The reason why people ED to NYU is they have a shot there, whereas at CLS they do not.

If their numbers are the same, then I guess people should just ED to Columbia now, unless their acceptance rate selectivity is extreme enough to make it a rational tactical decision to apply ED to NYU.

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BruceWayne
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby BruceWayne » Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:20 pm

Nightrunner wrote:
IAFG wrote:That said, if they have the placement edge, who effing cares what USNWR says.


Most of the people who frequent top-law-schools.com

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2ofspades
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 2ofspades » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:03 pm

vsl89 wrote:Placed a call to CLS -- they said LSAT median and GPA are unchanged.

Shown up by NYU.

dissonance1848 wrote:CLS is superior to NYU in employment prospects ...

Unless you want to work at a NY law firm (i.e., everyone at NYU)

dissonance1848 wrote:... campus ...

I recognize that some people prefer CLS, but there is no lacking for people who prefer the Village.

dissonance1848 wrote:... etc.

Apparently "etc." = USNWR

4102011
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby 4102011 » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:12 pm

In terms of campus, I think it's only important if that's important to you.

Like, if you envision cracking open a law book while laying out on the grass on a nice sunny day, and don't mind the occasional hobo wandering over and muttering things at you, street performers, and general hipster-overcrowding, then you're fine for NYU. But if you want tranquil areas with fancy collegiate lion statues and hedges/bushes trimmed in the shapes of animals, I would strongly recommend CLS.

And this is from someone who got super excited when visiting Columbia about said lion statues/bushes...

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St.Remy
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby St.Remy » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:34 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:CLS is superior to NYU in employment prospects, campus, etc. The reason why people ED to NYU is they have a shot there, whereas at CLS they do not.

If their numbers are the same, then I guess people should just ED to Columbia now, unless their acceptance rate selectivity is extreme enough to make it a rational tactical decision to apply ED to NYU.


I would think that to people who are choosing to ED the 25th percentile numbers would be of a great importance. If you are above both medians then why would you be EDing? Knowing the 25th percentile numbers and how they've changed from last year would show you whether schools are becoming more or less stingy with admissions for people below the median GPA. Without the full swath of numbers from CLS and NYU it's really hard to say where an ED would be better placed.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby Jack Smirks » Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:51 pm

IAFG wrote:
naterj wrote:I don't understand how Iowa's medians are so low but yet its ranking stays #25.

Sheer force of awesomeness

Yeah I forgot about that for a second.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: List of Class of 2013 GPA and LSAT Medians

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Wed Sep 08, 2010 12:13 am

im_blue wrote:Harvard 25th/75th

2010: 3.78 / 3.96, 171 / 176, 7610 apps (3.0% increase)
2009: 3.76 / 3.96, 171 / 176, 7391 apps

No median numbers available, but it's safe to say they haven't changed significantly.


A little surprised the GPA didn't go up more (that so-called 3.8 soft floor is a pretty porous floor), but good to see. I suppose the increase in apps won't raise your scores much if you are tied to a very small slice of acceptable LSAT scores.




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