No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

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xqhp82
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No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby xqhp82 » Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:02 am

I'm applying for fall 2011 without a gpa, I know most people here chance themselves by comparing their numbers with LSN etc, but in my case I don't know how realistic it is to simply make a rough conversion of my undergrad score into a gpa. I have an 'above average' from the report on LSAC (I know its 1 point to 'superior'), but when judging my chance by LSAT alone, do i look at the median LSAT or 75 percentile?? im aiming for T20.

the simple question is: when law schools evaluate international students what are the chances that they will take a student with 25%/median/75% LSAT?

BenJ
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby BenJ » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:34 am

xqhp82 wrote:the simple question is: when law schools evaluate international students what are the chances that they will take a student with 25%/median/75% LSAT?


<5%/~40%/>90%. More or less.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby D. H2Oman » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:36 am

BenJ wrote:
xqhp82 wrote:the simple question is: when law schools evaluate international students what are the chances that they will take a student with 25%/median/75% LSAT?


<5%/~40%/>90%. More or less.



At or above median-Probably in
Below median-Probably out

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TheLuckyOne
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby TheLuckyOne » Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:49 pm

xqhp82 wrote:I'm applying for fall 2011 without a gpa, I know most people here chance themselves by comparing their numbers with LSN etc, but in my case I don't know how realistic it is to simply make a rough conversion of my undergrad score into a gpa. I have an 'above average' from the report on LSAC (I know its 1 point to 'superior'), but when judging my chance by LSAT alone, do i look at the median LSAT or 75 percentile?? im aiming for T20.

the simple question is: when law schools evaluate international students what are the chances that they will take a student with 25%/median/75% LSAT?


LSAT will be a major factor at most schools as long as your GPA is not way too low. So, I would predict my cycle only based on the LSAT, disregarding GPA.

However, based on my observation at HYS, they seem to take it into account, even though it does affect their rankings. So if you are 176/3.5, you will most likely be rejected.

By the way, most of people here will not be able to answer your question since, even though there is a good amount of intl students, most of them attended US colleges, so they have GPA. Statistics you find online does not differentiate between the 2 groups. (Actually, I believe some school provided breakdown of admits without GPA, I just don't remember which one. That breakdown, however, didn't contain any original grades.)

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kazu
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby kazu » Thu Aug 19, 2010 9:18 pm

I'd say based on median LSAT. This also depends on what your LSAT is though - I agree with TheLuckyOne in that HYS seem to take into account whether it's a Superior/Above Average, etc. I also have the sneaking suspicion that they compare your UG GPA to previous applicants who also graduated from the same country/school. However, if you're not aiming for HYS I don't think your "Above Average" will matter.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby JusticeHarlan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 10:31 pm

Crazy thought:

Have you graduated yet? Could you take one online course, ace it, and officially have a 4.0 GPA?

xqhp82
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby xqhp82 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:18 am

thanks for the response. so i'm guessing if get around 168 for lsat i'd be safe for a lower T14 and other tier1 schools....fingers crossed for that.

JusticeHarlan wrote:Crazy thought:

Have you graduated yet? Could you take one online course, ace it, and officially have a 4.0 GPA?


nope i haven't graduated, so this wouldn't work....hmm one more thing though, i know high school numbers don't matter anymore, but in my case if i can provide a high school GPA would it help? I attended an international school with american system and I graduated with a 4.08, although I also took a public exam as my other high school diploma. on the common applcation form it asked for a high school GPA, should i list it there?? I also know that I was ranked 2nd back then, but it's not officially written anywhere, should i still put that down?

not trying to desperately bring up high school history, just wondering if adcoms would feel more comfortable if they see something familiar on my application....

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kazu
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby kazu » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:21 am

xqhp82 wrote:thanks for the response. so i'm guessing if get around 168 for lsat i'd be safe for a lower T14 and other tier1 schools....fingers crossed for that.

JusticeHarlan wrote:Crazy thought:

Have you graduated yet? Could you take one online course, ace it, and officially have a 4.0 GPA?


nope i haven't graduated, so this wouldn't work....hmm one more thing though, i know high school numbers don't matter anymore, but in my case if i can provide a high school GPA would it help? I attended an international school with american system and I graduated with a 4.08, although I also took a public exam as my other high school diploma. on the common applcation form it asked for a high school GPA, should i list it there?? I also know that I was ranked 2nd back then, but it's not officially written anywhere, should i still put that down?

not trying to desperately bring up high school history, just wondering if adcoms would feel more comfortable if they see something familiar on my application....



What Justice Harlan is trying to say is, since only classes taken before graduation count, if you can get a U.S. UG GPA in any way before then it should show up as your LSAC GPA. So, theoretically this could work.

xqhp82
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby xqhp82 » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:17 pm

kazu wrote:
xqhp82 wrote:thanks for the response. so i'm guessing if get around 168 for lsat i'd be safe for a lower T14 and other tier1 schools....fingers crossed for that.

JusticeHarlan wrote:Crazy thought:

Have you graduated yet? Could you take one online course, ace it, and officially have a 4.0 GPA?


nope i haven't graduated, so this wouldn't work....hmm one more thing though, i know high school numbers don't matter anymore, but in my case if i can provide a high school GPA would it help? I attended an international school with american system and I graduated with a 4.08, although I also took a public exam as my other high school diploma. on the common applcation form it asked for a high school GPA, should i list it there?? I also know that I was ranked 2nd back then, but it's not officially written anywhere, should i still put that down?

not trying to desperately bring up high school history, just wondering if adcoms would feel more comfortable if they see something familiar on my application....



What Justice Harlan is trying to say is, since only classes taken before graduation count, if you can get a U.S. UG GPA in any way before then it should show up as your LSAC GPA. So, theoretically this could work.


I see, but I am going to apply this cycle as soon as I get my LSAT score in October so I don't think its a feasible option...

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby JusticeHarlan » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:30 pm

xqhp82 wrote:I see, but I am going to apply this cycle as soon as I get my LSAT score in October so I don't think its a feasible option...

You can take an online course in as quick as five weeks. I don't know what the course-load would be like, particularly if you're studying for the October test, but if you could time it so that you take a single course during the period between taking the LSAT and getting the score back (when you can't apply yet anyways), wouldn't that be worth it to get a 4.0 on your applications?

I honestly don't know if this plan would work, for any number of reasons, so I'll shut up about it after this, but I think its something you could definitely look into.

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FlanAl
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby FlanAl » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:36 pm

I think Justice Harlan's plan would kinda work. There was a guy on here earlier who took some courses at community college while in high school and LSAC slapped him with that GPA (apparently he didn't do to well in them/was in high school and didn't care about them). I went to undergrad abroad but have a year of college in the states which will be counted as my GPA but since this other kid only had a few classes and they are counting it this online course plan might just work. (only at super numbers crazy schools)

annelise88
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby annelise88 » Sat Aug 21, 2010 8:02 am

Sorry to deviate from the OP's message, but I have a semi-related question.

I took my first year of UG work in the states, LSAC has assessed my gpa from that year. I then transferred out of the country and completed a full degree abroad. I have sent in this transcript as well, but it's still being processed.

Does this mean there's a slight possibility that only my US GPA will be used? AND if LSAC does give a rating of average or above average etc, will this rating in addition to my US GPA be sent out?!

Thanks :)

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kazu
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby kazu » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:46 am

annelise88 wrote:Does this mean there's a slight possibility that only my US GPA will be used? AND if LSAC does give a rating of average or above average etc, will this rating in addition to my US GPA be sent out?!


Yep.. in your "Academic Evaluation Summary" (or whatever they called it) under "Cumulative GPA" only your US GPA will be shown. There will be an additional "Foreign Transcript Summary" where they give the rating of your degree-granting foreign GPA.

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piccolittle
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby piccolittle » Sat Aug 21, 2010 5:45 pm

This is ridiculous... so that one A+ I got at community college between high school and my international university is going to give me a 4.0? But I mean, schools will see my grades anyway, right, so is it going to really made a difference anywhere but Law School Predictor/Numbers?

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kazu
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby kazu » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:54 pm

piccolittle wrote:This is ridiculous... so that one A+ I got at community college between high school and my international university is going to give me a 4.0? But I mean, schools will see my grades anyway, right, so is it going to really made a difference anywhere but Law School Predictor/Numbers?


That is the big question... No-one knows for sure right now since there are so few international applicants (and even fewer who have an "LSAC GPA" due to some reason). If you could let us know how things turn out that would be great :oops:

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piccolittle
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby piccolittle » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:58 pm

kazu wrote:
piccolittle wrote:This is ridiculous... so that one A+ I got at community college between high school and my international university is going to give me a 4.0? But I mean, schools will see my grades anyway, right, so is it going to really made a difference anywhere but Law School Predictor/Numbers?


That is the big question... No-one knows for sure right now since there are so few international applicants (and even fewer who have an "LSAC GPA" due to some reason). If you could let us know how things turn out that would be great :oops:



Will do! Here's hoping! :wink:

annelise88
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby annelise88 » Sun Aug 22, 2010 4:57 am

oh my, I agree with Piccolo... that is crazy. I'm happy with my US gpa though, so let's hope you're right kazu!

Thanks for the info!

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piccolittle
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby piccolittle » Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:15 am

Just updating this thread... Evidently as of this cycle LSAC will not give a cumulative GPA to foreign-educated candidates based on US coursework.

The grades will still appear, but you won't have an official GPA for index purposes etc.

FiveSermon
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby FiveSermon » Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:52 am

Unlike what many people say I think undergrad GPA can matter!! On LSN there was some international student with a 165 LSAT and 3.98 GPA who got into Cornell and other reach schools!

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SilverE2
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby SilverE2 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:06 pm

FiveSermon wrote:Unlike what many people say I think undergrad GPA can matter!! On LSN there was some international student with a 165 LSAT and 3.98 GPA who got into Cornell and other reach schools!


A. Completely off topic.

B. Nobody ever said GPA doesn't matter.

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pokerlaw
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Re: No gpa...how to pick reaches and targets

Postby pokerlaw » Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:12 pm

xqhp82 wrote:I'm applying for fall 2011 without a gpa, I know most people here chance themselves by comparing their numbers with LSN etc, but in my case I don't know how realistic it is to simply make a rough conversion of my undergrad score into a gpa. I have an 'above average' from the report on LSAC (I know its 1 point to 'superior'), but when judging my chance by LSAT alone, do i look at the median LSAT or 75 percentile?? im aiming for T20.

the simple question is: when law schools evaluate international students what are the chances that they will take a student with 25%/median/75% LSAT?


I was told they put more weight on your LSAT.

International GPA's do not go into class profile for rankings. They don't spend too much time looking over the LSAC report. Although if you got anything below 'above average,' you are probably in trouble.




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