Should I Retake? Poll Added

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

Retake?

Retake
15
32%
Don't Retake
32
68%
 
Total votes: 47

showNprove
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby showNprove » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:00 pm

If you don't get into Stanford, it won't be because of your LSAT score.

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blink
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby blink » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:01 pm

TommyK wrote:Am I correct in assuming that you haven't taken a practice LSAT in two months? You'll surely be out of practice. It seems like you have a lot to lose, but not that much upside. Even if you get a 175, which is far from a fair assumption when you factor in test-day jitters, you're talking about a realistic increase of two points (once they average). I know that's an important two points, but you could also go the opposite direction.

Will you be counted as a URM? If so, you should be money, right? between the 25 & 75 brackets on both and above the median on the LSAT + URM, should stand a really good shot. I wouldn't want to put myself through the agony of getting back into testing shape only to have it have the possibility of negatively affecting my chances.


1) It comes back quick.

2) Most schools don't average so we could be talking about 5 or 6 points

3) Huge LSAT increase + URM = $$$$$

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acrossthelake
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby acrossthelake » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:02 pm

Knockglock wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:Ah, nice, I kept a spreadsheet too. That was very helpful in answering my question.

I severely doubt you're going to dip below 171 on your retake. My not supported by hard data opinion is that most ppl who see a dip from their PT average see it either because of A) nerves, B) they didn't quite get it, or had only recently entered into their desired zone. You only have 2 sub170 scores, and both were in the very beginning. Your last chunk(15) or so PTs actually look really similar to mine and my test went favorably in the opposite direction. While I usually caution ppl that their score might go down, I doubt yours will unless you freak out. Figure out how you're going to stay calm on test day, though.


Hmm thanks ATL, you're so helpful :D. It's not that I didn't stay calm and "freaked out" per se, I think I just kind of rushed to make sure that I absolutely didn't leave any questions blank, and didn't fall behind the pace no matter what, and I just made some dumb mistakes. Especially with the -4 on LG :x. You're right though, I need to figure out a way to remain relatively relaxed on test day. Maybe going through it once will help.

But anyways, how should I study again? I was planning on taking the last 15-20 PT's or so to shake off the rust from between here and Oct 9th.


You're welcome! Did you manage to get your timing down before test day? I managed to get all my sections down to 25-27minutes, so I knew I had 8-10min leeway of slowdown. On test day I finished sections in 30-33mins instead as I slowed to make sure I didn't make dumb mistakes. I'm fairly certain that that, mixed with my general relaxed state, helped me on test day (plus luck). I've taken ~20 standardized tests that "mattered" to some degree in my lifetime so it was easy for me to stay relaxed. Figure out a way to do that. It helps.

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blink
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby blink » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:03 pm

Knockglock wrote:
blink wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
blink wrote:Do you think it's possible that you burnt out a little sometime after that third-to-last PT? It seems that you hit your peak and then started your decline that continued to test day. I still say retake, but make sure you manage the amount of your review.


Yeah, I mean I think that's definitely a possibility. Especially looking back on it now. I had the mentality of burnout is for wussies ( :roll: ). I wonder if I did. It's hard to say though.



If so, it's really too bad considering you hit your peak days before the real thing. You just missed it. I would imagine that it is difficult to guage when one is about to burnout, but if you studied the last 15 or so tests from now until the test, I bet you could get your score up to your previous highs while preventing any further burnout.


blink wrote:Also, in regards to your edit, idk about you, but personally if I burnout on school or something, it takes longer than a couple days to refresh (for me it was a week at the beach lol)


Yeah man, if burnout was the reason I didn't score well, I definitely did not know it at the time, and couldn't see it coming. I've had a while without studying the LSAT so maybe I will be refreshed.


For sure, you'll be fine now. It's just you had a crazy rigorous study schedule and I'm sure many of us would be at risk to burnout working that way. Get back on the horse and ride to victory!

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:05 pm

TommyK wrote:Am I correct in assuming that you haven't taken a practice LSAT in two months? You'll surely be out of practice. It seems like you have a lot to lose, but not that much upside. Even if you get a 175, which is far from a fair assumption when you factor in test-day jitters, you're talking about a realistic increase of two points (once they average). I know that's an important two points, but you could also go the opposite direction.

Will you be counted as a URM? If so, you should be money, right? between the 25 & 75 brackets on both and above the median on the LSAT + URM, should stand a really good shot. I wouldn't want to put myself through the agony of getting back into testing shape only to have it have the possibility of negatively affecting my chances.


Yeah basically. I took my first PT since the June test last week. I scored a 178 though, so i'm not sure how out of practice I am, with the huge qualifier that I had already taken that PT (June 07) in late May I think. But i've taken most of the PT's at this point so it will be hard to get a completely clear indicator of where i'm at.

But yeah, you make some good points, basically what i'm thinking as well for the "don't retake" side of the the argument. You're completely right as far as a realistic increase as two points, and the possibility I could go the opposite direction.

As far as URM, i'm not sure. From what i've read on TLS it seems that I will get some URM consideration, but as to the exact degree that's up to the schools, what kind of URMs they need, etc. I haven't faced intense adversity or anything, so my DS is definitely average at best.

But yeah, it would be horrible to study for the LSAT again and then have it hurt me :(. It's just such a hard decision, it's so close and there are good arguments for and against.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:10 pm

showNprove wrote:If you don't get into Stanford, it won't be because of your LSAT score.


Hmm lol, thanks, I don't know how to feel about this :lol:. I've heard this before too, so this is one of the argument's for not retaking. I know i'm changing it up completely now, but just curious, but for H would it be worth retaking then?

ATL wrote:You're welcome! Did you manage to get your timing down before test day? I managed to get all my sections down to 25-27minutes, so I knew I had 8-10min leeway of slowdown. On test day I finished sections in 30-33mins instead as I slowed to make sure I didn't make dumb mistakes. I'm fairly certain that that, mixed with my general relaxed state, helped me on test day (plus luck). I've taken ~20 standardized tests that "mattered" to some degree in my lifetime so it was easy for me to stay relaxed. Figure out a way to do that. It helps.


Yeah I got my timing down, but for me it was more like finishing in 33 minutes and taking my time as I was going through the sections to really think and make sure I had the correct answer.

Added a Poll.

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TommyK
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby TommyK » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:35 pm

Knockglock wrote:
But yeah, it would be horrible to study for the LSAT again and then have it hurt me :(. It's just such a hard decision, it's so close and there are good arguments for and against.


When faced with two equally compelling arguments, I tend to find more weight with the one that doesn't make me torture myself with more agonizing test prep. :mrgreen:

Also, I remember your DS. I kinda' liked it.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:39 pm

TommyK wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
But yeah, it would be horrible to study for the LSAT again and then have it hurt me :(. It's just such a hard decision, it's so close and there are good arguments for and against.


When faced with two equally compelling arguments, I tend to find more weight with the one that doesn't make me torture myself with more agonizing test prep. :mrgreen:

Also, I remember your DS. I kinda' liked it.


Thanks man, I know you crucified me on one of my earlier attempts so that means a lot :mrgreen:.

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Marionberry
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Marionberry » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:09 pm

Hey Knock,

Do you remember the 18 days between June 7 and June 25? That is all.

All the best,
Marionberry

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TommyK
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby TommyK » Mon Aug 16, 2010 3:24 pm

Knockglock wrote:
TommyK wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
But yeah, it would be horrible to study for the LSAT again and then have it hurt me :(. It's just such a hard decision, it's so close and there are good arguments for and against.


When faced with two equally compelling arguments, I tend to find more weight with the one that doesn't make me torture myself with more agonizing test prep. :mrgreen:

Also, I remember your DS. I kinda' liked it.


Thanks man, I know you crucified me on one of my earlier attempts so that means a lot :mrgreen:.


crucified is such a strong word :) I remember the guy after me gave much better advice that allowed you to be honest on the whole identity thing. Good luck man. I think you've set yourself up in a really sweet situation.

Also... Marionberry is absolutely right. Goddamn, I am not looking forward to that waiting period again.

Marionberry wrote:Hey Knock,

Do you remember the 18 days between June 7 and June 25? That is all.

All the best,
Marionberry

CanadianWolf
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:27 pm

Retake if you need to be in the top one (1%) percent in order to teach for an LSAT prep review company, otherwise only retake if you are certain that your score will rise by more than 2 points.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake?

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:51 pm

TommyK wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
TommyK wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
But yeah, it would be horrible to study for the LSAT again and then have it hurt me :(. It's just such a hard decision, it's so close and there are good arguments for and against.


When faced with two equally compelling arguments, I tend to find more weight with the one that doesn't make me torture myself with more agonizing test prep. :mrgreen:

Also, I remember your DS. I kinda' liked it.


Thanks man, I know you crucified me on one of my earlier attempts so that means a lot :mrgreen:.


crucified is such a strong word :) I remember the guy after me gave much better advice that allowed you to be honest on the whole identity thing. Good luck man. I think you've set yourself up in a really sweet situation.


Haha yeah I was just teasing :P. Thanks man, I appreciate it. Good luck to you too :D.

Marionberry wrote:Hey Knock,

Do you remember the 18 days between June 7 and June 25? That is all.

All the best,
Marionberry


Lol, vividly. Longest wait of my life :lol:. I'm sure the second time around will be just as bad.

Retake if you need to be in the top one (1%) percent in order to teach for an LSAT prep review company, otherwise only retake if you are certain that your score will rise by more than 2 points.


I'm not planning on teaching for a prep company, although it might be nice to have that as an option on the table. I was going to do some private tutoring at my school possibly.

I'm pretty certain I could hit a 173+, but not completely :S.

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CapHillLove
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby CapHillLove » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:47 pm

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Last edited by CapHillLove on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:48 pm

CapHillLove wrote:This was kind of mentioned... but is there any general consensus on whether Stanford averages LSAT scores? I know most schools seem to take the top one, but I keep hearing conflicting things about Stanford's policy and it has me worried...


I think Stanford averages, but they're one of those black-box, holistic admission schools.

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CapHillLove
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby CapHillLove » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:08 pm

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Last edited by CapHillLove on Wed Aug 18, 2010 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:11 pm

CapHillLove wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
CapHillLove wrote:This was kind of mentioned... but is there any general consensus on whether Stanford averages LSAT scores? I know most schools seem to take the top one, but I keep hearing conflicting things about Stanford's policy and it has me worried...


I think Stanford averages, but they're one of those black-box, holistic admission schools.


Oh Noooooo! That sucks. I had a horrible LSAT last year with testing irregularities (and me effing up) that was in the low low 160's. I am practice testing 170-180. Am I screwed?


Nah, Stanford is one of the true holistic schools, and they value GPA a lot more relative to the LSAT than other schools. I don't think your LSAT is going to make or break you there. It's kind of a prereq, you need a good LSAT score but it's not enough to get you in alone.

Make a good application is all I can say, you don't really have any other choice.

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CapHillLove
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby CapHillLove » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:14 pm

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Last edited by CapHillLove on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:17 pm

CapHillLove wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
CapHillLove wrote:
Knockglock wrote:I think Stanford averages, but they're one of those black-box, holistic admission schools.


Oh Noooooo! That sucks. I had a horrible LSAT last year with testing irregularities (and me effing up) that was in the low low 160's. I am practice testing 170-180. Am I screwed?


Nah, Stanford is one of the true holistic schools, and they value GPA a lot more relative to the LSAT than other schools. I don't think your LSAT is going to make or break you there. It's kind of a prereq, you need a good LSAT score but it's not enough to get you in alone.

Make a good application is all I can say, you don't really have any other choice.


Ok cool... I'm kind of in the same boat with you on GPA (although non-URM and non-Cali resident), so I think best case scenario is that I perform the way I should on the LSAT and write an awesome PS. I have really consistent softs that clearly show a dedication to public service and civil rights, so I'm just hoping one of those things will save me from being auto-dinged.


Yeah, if you're big on public interest that's a plus for Stanford. Dean Deal flies back east every year to help choose the Truman award winners (public interest scholarship I believe). She obviously is a strong believer in that then if she dedicates some of her busy time for that. I read about it on her admissions blog, you should check it out: http://blogs.law.stanford.edu/admissions/.

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CapHillLove
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby CapHillLove » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:25 pm

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Last edited by CapHillLove on Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:32 pm

CapHillLove wrote:Haha oh God, another website to obsess over.

But thanks! That makes me feel a lot better. Hopefully I can manage to make that commitment shine through in my PS in a convincing way.


Yep good luck man, as long as it isn't taking my SLS spot :P. (just kidding)

Anyways, to get back on track, it seems that the poll is leaning towards not retaking, but the people who have posted are leaning towards retaking. Which doesn't make my decision any easier.

Any more opinions? I still haven't made my decision.

I though about it more, and started thinking back-ups. If I don't get into Stanford, I guess my 2nd (wishful) choice would be H. So on the basis of backup consideration, do you think I should retake score a bit higher and try and lock down a H acceptance? I know they average but still.

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Sentry
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Sentry » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:35 pm

As a URM I think a 171 gives you a realistic shot everywhere even HY.

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:39 pm

Sentry wrote:As a URM I think a 171 gives you a realistic shot everywhere even HY.


Hmmm, thank you. Is my shot at H good enough already to not bother retaking and risking a similar or lower score? That's kind of what i'm trying to find out. I'm pretty much throwing Y out of the window. I'll donate my application fee but i'm not expecting anything at all.

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Dany
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Dany » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:41 pm

Marionberry wrote:Hey Knock,

Do you remember the 18 days between June 7 and June 25? That is all.

All the best,
Marionberry & Eskimo

:D

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Knock
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Knock » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:43 pm

eskimo wrote:
Marionberry wrote:Hey Knock,

Do you remember the 18 days between June 7 and June 25? That is all.

All the best,
Marionberry & Eskimo

:D


Will you guys commiserate with me if I do retake? I can't do that wait without you guys :shock:.

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Dany
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Re: Should I Retake? Poll Added

Postby Dany » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:46 pm

PS: You're getting into H. Higher LSAT won't affect S. Y is a crapshoot.

You can laugh at me languishing at lowly CCN a year from now. Don't stress yourself with a retake, bud.




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