Alternatives to Law School

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ResolutePear
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:20 am

paratactical wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
paratactical wrote:
LOL.

Yeah, my English degree has been so failtastic.


Should of have done a Swahili major instead. I hear that's the new gravy train.


I hear Women's Comparative Political Theory is where it's at.


I gotta disagree with you on that. Celtic Literature is on an upward climb in demand.

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paratactical
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby paratactical » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:22 am

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:24 am

jayn3 wrote:itt: we realize that humanities majors are useless.


(but damn, my phd latte tastes good)



Some people want phd's for the research opp. alone.

And what I say to them is: Go into something with math. You can fool people, at least for a while, in math.

I say, if you're going to PhD in something like.. Astro-Nucleic Physics with a concentration in sub-atomic particles. Humanities majors should have no problem transitioning.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:27 am

paratactical wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
paratactical wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Should of have done a Swahili major instead. I hear that's the new gravy train.


I hear Women's Comparative Political Theory is where it's at.


I gotta disagree with you on that. Celtic Literature is on an upward climb in demand.


Someone told me that was going to get replaced by Underwater Basketweaving Therapy.


That'll never catch on; especially if those Celtic Literature majors go ahead and do a degree in Norsk Law!

Bumi
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby Bumi » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:48 am

Pip wrote:I'll never understand why anyone goes for a degree in something like English nor understand why colleges offer the completely worthless degree.


English is not a worthless degree, like I mentioned on the first page of the thread. I know several successful English majors who work in various fields. The key is marketing yourself well, and the other key is working hard and well once you get that entry level job. Which I assume isn't that different for law jobs, honestly.

MTal wrote:Alternatives to throwing away 150k?

1. Get a shitty job. Do good work no matter how demeaning it might seem at first. Line up a good recommendation from your manager. Move up in your company, or move up in another company if they make you an offer. Do good work until you're making 50-60k a year. Do that job for a few years until you've stashed away enough capital to start your own business. Build your business from the ground up and enjoy life.

2. Join one of the armed services as an officer. Retire in 20 years with kick ass benefits and enjoy life.

3. Learn a trade such as auto mechanic, plumbing, or welding. (you know...providing services people actually NEED) Once you've acquired enough experience, start your own business and enjoy life.

If you want to whine about how all of the above takes too long and you want to make 6 figures straight out of school, all I can say is, become a doctor. If that doesn't appeal to you then the above are pretty much your only alternatives.

TITCR

Pip
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby Pip » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:51 pm

Bumi wrote:
Pip wrote:I'll never understand why anyone goes for a degree in something like English nor understand why colleges offer the completely worthless degree.


English is not a worthless degree, like I mentioned on the first page of the thread. I know several successful English majors who work in various fields. The key is marketing yourself well, and the other key is working hard and well once you get that entry level job. Which I assume isn't that different for law jobs, honestly.



Well the reality is you or I could find people that majored in any number of things that are completely pointless and yet still have a good job. The odds are your English major friends would have gotten the same or better jobs if they had majored in basket weaving.

My point of it being a worthless degree is not because the major has no value. It is that their are so many people with the degree and so few jobs that need the degree that it is worthless... a bit like my old high school had a program for training kids to be florists... but lets be honest it was a town of 5,000 and already had 2 florists, what are the odds that the town would need another 20 each year? pretty much zero... and that is the same thing with the English major. The mass number of them has given such an over supply that the degree is worthless in practical terms, I suspect if those getting English majors had at least taken a class in micro-economic theory they would understand supply and demand and maybe just maybe figured out the value of an over supplied English major.

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clintonius
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby clintonius » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:54 pm

That has been true of virtually all humanities degree for a long time now. The adage "it's not what you got your degree in, it's that you have a degree" seems appropriate.

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paratactical
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby paratactical » Mon Aug 16, 2010 1:55 pm

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Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

deadhipsters
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby deadhipsters » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:18 am

What about this option: take Bio 1, Chem 1, and Physics 1 at local community college. See if I can get A's. If I do, upgrade to local state school and finish the prerequisites needed for physical therapy school.
If not, proceed to law school. I think my degree in government will have really prepared me for the hard sciences.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby SteelReserve » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:02 am

If you don't have any interest in smoking pot or doing other drugs, Police is a credited career path. Good money and benefits, excellent pension, room for a smart person to advance in ranks rapidly. Also, make more money than small law or prosecutors/PDs in most jurisdictions.

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Sentry
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby Sentry » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:33 am

SteelReserve wrote:If you don't have any interest in smoking pot or doing other drugs, Police is a credited career path. Good money and benefits, excellent pension, room for a smart person to advance in ranks rapidly. Also, make more money than small law or prosecutors/PDs in most jurisdictions.

Most PDs have had hiring freezes for at least the last year.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:05 pm

Sentry wrote:
SteelReserve wrote:If you don't have any interest in smoking pot or doing other drugs, Police is a credited career path. Good money and benefits, excellent pension, room for a smart person to advance in ranks rapidly. Also, make more money than small law or prosecutors/PDs in most jurisdictions.

Most PDs have had hiring freezes for at least the last year.



Another route would be to go through national security agencies, private or otherwise, and lateral in the future to a local PD.. though national security isn't a bad thing to stick with since we're paranoid to hell and back!

deadhipsters
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby deadhipsters » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:13 pm

Its true. My friend scored a 95 on the NYPD test two years ago. He will start the academy at the end of the year. So 2.5 year waiting list.

The upside is 90k a year after 5 years, a pension, benefits, etc, etc.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby SteelReserve » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:30 pm

Most PDs have had hiring freezes for at least the last year.


Absolutely true, but the same is for any public sector work including prosecution/public defender etc. It's still an excellent career alternative to law/law school. If it means you work some mickey mouse job for a year or two while your exam and background clears and hiring picks up, then so be it, no opportunity cost and no debt. I know private investigation agencies are always hiring and if you work OT you make a perfectly decent wage...do that for a year or so then go police. I am confident that this would earn you over your lifetime far far more than most law grads can hope to make if they are even able to break into the industry.

I'm not saying being a cop is paradise but the OP asked for alternatives and I think it is an excellent alternative for a person with a bachelor's in a worthless subject who is either looking to take the OCI/debt gamble at a high ranked law school or taking on the otherwise bottom-barrel starting salaries a lib arts degree affords grads in any economy, let alone this one.

Edit: I also think taking inexpensive community college classes in something like computer sciences/programming, etc would make a lot of sense as well as a career alternative. It's a skill that is largely in demand and also enables a person to do freelance if they so chose.

I know I personally would not like the computer jobs, but I do think that is a credited alternative to LS.

I think in the past HVAC technician, etc, would be a good alternative, but I'm not sure residential construction will ever pick up again....

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SteelReserve
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby SteelReserve » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:36 pm

Its true. My friend scored a 95 on the NYPD test two years ago. He will start the academy at the end of the year. So 2.5 year waiting list.

The upside is 90k a year after 5 years, a pension, benefits, etc, etc.


I agree, I too have heard the NYPD waiting period is ridiculous. Does your friend know if academy class sizes will be increasing any time soon?

That 2.5 year wait list paid off for him...I'm pretty sure just a couple or few years ago, NYPD was starting people at 25k compared to the 42k now.

mikecw23
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby mikecw23 » Mon Aug 30, 2010 2:46 pm

Master Arabic and head to the UN

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ResolutePear
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:27 pm

In some cities,

You can pay for the academy yourself and upon completion of that plus the screening, they'll let you walk in for a PT test and offer once passed.

At least, that's how it works in some cities around S. Florida.

deadhipsters
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby deadhipsters » Mon Aug 30, 2010 6:45 pm

SteelReserve wrote:
Its true. My friend scored a 95 on the NYPD test two years ago. He will start the academy at the end of the year. So 2.5 year waiting list.

The upside is 90k a year after 5 years, a pension, benefits, etc, etc.


I agree, I too have heard the NYPD waiting period is ridiculous. Does your friend know if academy class sizes will be increasing any time soon?

That 2.5 year wait list paid off for him...I'm pretty sure just a couple or few years ago, NYPD was starting people at 25k compared to the 42k now.


Yea, I think it starts at 45K or 42K for just going to the academy and then it goes up from there. It's good for college graduates, I believe the detective exam and some other promotional exams are closed to those without degrees. Being a detective would be far more interesting than most any other legal job.
Not sure about the size of the class, but the person who he talked to said that the class would be bigger than they were last year (which is not saying much. I think it was reduced to a quarter of the size it once was).

I'll probably take the test this fall. If you are interested, and didn't know, you can take the test in electronic testing centers just about any day of the week throughout the City.

If I get out of law school without any decent job prospects and I get off the waiting list... I could just use the IBR public interest option and end up having a solid career.

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SteelReserve
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby SteelReserve » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:21 pm

I'll probably take the test this fall. If you are interested, and didn't know, you can take the test in electronic testing centers just about any day of the week throughout the City.

If I get out of law school without any decent job prospects and I get off the waiting list... I could just use the IBR public interest option and end up having a solid career.


I think that's a good option . . . when I think of law students like Scott Bullock who went through the trenches trying to be a lawyer, from doc reviews to low-level PI or ID and wallowed around till their mid-30s and are still trying to make it in law. . . and read about how ID lawyers make low six figures ten years into the business (note a police with overtime makes the same salary 5 years in) . . . and personally know recent grads who are doing unpaid internships in the hopes one day they will be employable in law . . . you can't help but wonder why more people don't consider this career path.

I think the reason is a certain sense of prestige, class pride, or reluctance to enter any career that they could have w/o the law degree. Society has engrained cop = blue collar and lawyer = wealth, but the modern realities of the profession are the exact opposite. Miss the biglaw boat, and you either grind out for years or a decade as a solo, or you go into government work which almost always pays less than police.

deadhipsters
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Re: Alternatives to Law School

Postby deadhipsters » Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:04 pm

Yea, that's true. The legal profession is too crowded. There's actually a need for skilled trades men, like master carpenters, plumbers, electricians,etc. Its not glamorous, but its probably a better option for 90 percent of would-be lawyers. And I think most people avoid these jobs, because they think it would signal some sort of failure in their professional lives, but the reality is many of these professions provide better hours and wages than law.




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