Could someone explain to me...

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
pattymac
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Could someone explain to me...

Postby pattymac » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:00 pm

...if people are having difficulty finding employment out of the t-14 (or lets even HYS, as has been stated on here in the past)...how t2 through t4's are churning out 20,000+ students with any hope of employment?

Does anyone not find it strikingly alarming that there wouldn't be some kind of backlash as a result? And JD underground isn't the answer ;).

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:10 pm

When people say having trouble with employment, they are often one of the following:

1. Talking about people with really bad grades
2. Talking about trying to get biglaw

There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So while there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.

While.
Last edited by Hannibal on Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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holydonkey
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby holydonkey » Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:30 pm

Negative Articles - Check
Negative Blogs - Check
Hilarious Youtube Videos - Check
Organizations forming to investigate employment claims - Check
Lawsuits - Check
Hunger Strikes - Check

What kind of backlash are you waiting for?

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Eugenie Danglars
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Eugenie Danglars » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:35 pm

Negative Articles - Check
Negative Blogs - Check
Hilarious Youtube Videos - Check
Organizations forming to investigate employment claims - Check
Lawsuits - Check
Hunger Strikes - Check


Wait, there was a hunger strike?

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:58 pm

Hannibal wrote:When people say having trouble with employment, they are often one of the following:

1. Talking about people with really bad grades
2. Talking about trying to get biglaw

There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.


You have no idea what you're talking about.

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:02 pm

MVPson wrote:
Hannibal wrote:When people say having trouble with employment, they are often one of the following:

1. Talking about people with really bad grades
2. Talking about trying to get biglaw

There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.


You have no idea what you're talking about.


I would love to see a problem with what I'm saying.

Look at any of the threads about employment. A ton of them are largely trying to avoid jobs that are sub-100k, fearful of debt.

I'm not saying it's not a shitty job market.

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:03 pm

Hannibal wrote:
MVPson wrote:
Hannibal wrote:When people say having trouble with employment, they are often one of the following:

1. Talking about people with really bad grades
2. Talking about trying to get biglaw

There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.


You have no idea what you're talking about.


I would love to see a problem with what I'm saying.

Look at any of the threads about employment. A ton of them are largely trying to avoid jobs that are sub-100k, fearful of debt.

I'm not saying it's not a shitty job market.


No idea. You have no idea what you're talking about, broseph.

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:07 pm

Quality argument, son.

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billyez
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby billyez » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:08 pm

MVPson wrote:
No idea. You have no idea what you're talking about, broseph.


The problem here is...your not doing anything to refute what he's saying.

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:21 pm

Are either of you in law school right now? Have either of you gone through hiring yet? People at my MVP in the top third are missing biglaw and doing second year summer work in positions formerly filled by 1Ls. That is, people in their second year are doing unpaid internships that will not turn into permanent employment.

Here's an article that discusses the plight of law students in the current graduating class.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... rad%20Jobs

But anyway, have fun "investing" in your future.

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kalvano
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:24 pm

MVPson wrote:Are either of you in law school right now? Have either of you gone through hiring yet? People at my MVP in the top third are missing biglaw and doing second year summer work in positions formerly filled by 1Ls. That is, people in their second year are doing unpaid internships that will not turn into permanent employment.



Still not refuting the argument.

His whole argument was "not getting Biglaw jobs but other jobs are available".

Anecdotal "evidence" about people who aren't getting the positions they want for summer 2L means jack.

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:25 pm

Jesus.

Edit: I want to address the above poster. So, if firsthand experience as to what current students at a T10 are going through is not proof of a point, what is? As to these "jobs" at are available, see my above post. Most of them won't turn into permanent employment.

You sew your own fate.
Last edited by MVPson on Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:27 pm

You should definitely focus on trial law. Your arguments are astonishing.

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:29 pm

MVPson demands sympathy. Anyone not treating the recession as the apocalypse for law students is clearly not being sympathetic.

Renzo
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Renzo » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:30 pm

kalvano wrote:You should definitely focus on trial law. Your arguments are astonishing.


To be fair, I couldn't figure out what the hell this meant:
There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.


So both sides could do a little better.

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:31 pm

MVPson wrote:Jesus.

Edit: I want to address the above poster. So, if firsthand experience as to what current students at a T10 are going through is not proof of a point, what is? As to these "jobs" at are available, see my above post. Most of them won't turn into permanent employment.

You sew your own fate.


In other words, most of those in biglaw summer positions won't turn into permanent biglaw employment? You are pretty much making my original argument for me.

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kalvano
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:32 pm

Renzo wrote:
There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.


So both sides could do a little better.


I mentally inserted -

There are a ton of positions in law that make sub-60k in comparison. So while there will certainly be quite a few unemployed JDs, a lot of the lack of employment here is the fear of student loans crushing them while they try to find high paying work.


But I'm used to mental editing.

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kalvano
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:33 pm

MVPson wrote:Edit: I want to address the above poster. So, if firsthand experience as to what current students at a T10 are going through is not proof of a point, what is? As to these "jobs" at are available, see my above post. Most of them won't turn into permanent employment.


But you aren't talking about jobs. You're talking about people not getting paid summer internships. There is a vast difference.

MVPson wrote:You sew your own fate.


No, you don't. You might sow your own fate, but you certainly don't sew it. Unless you're Willie Nelson's wife sewing him up in the sheet.

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:35 pm

I'm not demanding sympathy. I haven't gone through OCI yet. Furthermore, when I do go through OCI, I expect to do quite well given where I stand in the class and the fact that I don't exhibit signs of aspies. I was just calling you out for making a completely unsubstantiated post that is counter to reality and misleading.

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:38 pm

Please tell me how my argument is counter to reality.

My argument: A lot of the fear about employment is over the grade of pay at employment rather than actual job prospects. My evidence is a bunch of threads about bad job prospects that mention the person's desire not to go to "shitlaw" or have too low of a salary to pay off loans.
Last edited by Hannibal on Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kalvano
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby kalvano » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:40 pm

MVPson wrote:I was just calling you out for making a completely unsubstantiated post that is counter to reality and misleading.



Yet you've provided absolutely no evidence at all to support your position, and have actually supported the very position you are trying to "call someone out on."

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:44 pm

Hannibal wrote:Please tell me how my argument is counter to reality.

My argument: A lot of the fear over employment is over the grade of pay at employment rather than actual job prospects. My evidence is a bunch of threads about bad job prospects that mention the person's desire not to go to "shitlaw" or have too low of a salary to pay off loans.


I like how you ignored the part about bad grades. Honestly, I'm impressed. And, how could you call something a "job prospect" if the salary is too low to pay off your loans? Prospect implies intent. Intent implies desire or purpose. How could you honestly desire to work some shit personal injury job that wouldn't even support a living without moving into your mom and dad's basement?

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thecilent
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby thecilent » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:44 pm

omg. I cant quote.

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Hannibal
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby Hannibal » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:46 pm

MVPson wrote:
Hannibal wrote:Please tell me how my argument is counter to reality.

My argument: A lot of the fear over employment is over the grade of pay at employment rather than actual job prospects. My evidence is a bunch of threads about bad job prospects that mention the person's desire not to go to "shitlaw" or have too low of a salary to pay off loans.


I like how you ignored the part about bad grades. Honestly, I'm impressed. And, how could you call something a "job prospect" if the salary is too low to pay off your loans? Prospect implies intent. Intent implies desire or purpose. How could you honestly desire to work some shit personal injury job that wouldn't even support a living without moving into your mom and dad's basement?


In this post, you represent the person in my argument upset over grade of pay at employment. Your argument against me is that low paying jobs shouldn't even be considered jobs. Of course "low" in this case is pretty damn relative considering most people I know would get down on their hands and knees for 60k a year.

And yeah, if you get really bad grades it's going to suck. Are you disputing that?

MVPson
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Re: Could someone explain to me...

Postby MVPson » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:49 pm

kalvano wrote:
MVPson wrote:I was just calling you out for making a completely unsubstantiated post that is counter to reality and misleading.



Yet you've provided absolutely no evidence at all to support your position, and have actually supported the very position you are trying to "call someone out on."


I pointed to my own experience of seeing what happened to many of my friends. I also posted a news article outlining the *excellent* job prospects recent grads have.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... rad%20Jobs

Do your research and think long and hard about your decision.




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