Is median a target or a reach?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:32 pm

If my numbers are at or just below the medians and LSN puts me at Consider should I think of that as a reach school or a target school?

I'm trying to decide how high I should bother to apply. Does an LSN consider and a median numbers mean about a 50/50 chance of getting in?

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby romothesavior » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:35 pm

Hey-O wrote:If my numbers are at or just below the medians and LSN puts me at Consider should I think of that as a reach school or a target school?

I'm trying to decide how high I should bother to apply. Does an LSN consider and a median numbers mean about a 50/50 chance of getting in?


At median = Target
Below = Reach

But a lot depends on the school. For example, if you are at LSAT median but way below GPA median for Vandy, you are likely out. They are not splitter friendly. But if you hit median and are below GPA median for WUSTL, you are almost certainly in. So a 168/3.1 may be a reach for Vandy, but a 167/3.1 for WUSTL is almost certainly in, so it is more of a safe target.

User avatar
vespertiliovir
Posts: 327
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:52 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby vespertiliovir » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:38 pm

romothesavior wrote:a lot depends on the school.

+1.

User avatar
KibblesAndVick
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:29 am

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:38 pm

I don't think there is a universal answer. It depends a lot on which schools you're talking about and if it's your GPA or your LSAT that's at median or below median.

The real answer is that you should put forward your best application regardless. After that all you can say is "alea iacta est".

Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:25 pm

Thanks for the replies. I'm re-applying so I can't count on fee waivers and I have limited funds so I'm trying to limit the number of reaches and determine what is the best bet for my application time, money and energy.

Specifically I'm trying to decide on paying out the hefty fees to apply to Yale and Harvard. I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard. LSN says 40% for both. I know I'm a likely ding, but I'm trying to gauge how likely a ding I'm going to be and if it would be worth the money it costs to send in the application.

I'm also trying to decide how far below T6 I should venture as safeties.

User avatar
lzyovrachievr
Posts: 1695
Joined: Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:24 am

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby lzyovrachievr » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:36 pm

With your scores, it's definitely worth it to apply. It seems that predictions only somewhat work with Harvard and Yale. You need good scores to get in, but once you've reached a certain threshold, it's more of a guess. If you've got 40 percent chances, obviously that's not good, but it's a shot. If you somehow happen to get in, the application fee will be worth it.

As far as safeties go, I'd ask schools for fee waivers and do most of the T14 if you are just going for rank. You can use offers as leverage for funds later.

User avatar
Kilpatrick
Posts: 1073
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 2:06 am

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:44 pm

If you are that close I'd say it's definitely worth it to apply at HYS. With those numbers and if you're on a budget for applications I don't think you have to venture too far out of the T6. Don't bother with Cornell or Georgetown that's for sure.

username99
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:40 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby username99 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:28 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Hey-O wrote:If my numbers are at or just below the medians and LSN puts me at Consider should I think of that as a reach school or a target school?

I'm trying to decide how high I should bother to apply. Does an LSN consider and a median numbers mean about a 50/50 chance of getting in?


At median = Target
Below = Reach

But a lot depends on the school. For example, if you are at LSAT median but way below GPA median for Vandy, you are likely out. They are not splitter friendly. But if you hit median and are below GPA median for WUSTL, you are almost certainly in. So a 168/3.1 may be a reach for Vandy, but a 167/3.1 for WUSTL is almost certainly in, so it is more of a safe target.


How about GW?

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Bumi » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:25 pm

Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard.


:shock:

Apply to both for the love of everything you consider dear. Sell things on craigslist to get the money if you have to. Consider selling yourself if you have no tangible assets. This is not a difficult question.

User avatar
Hannibal
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hannibal » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:29 pm

Bumi wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard.


:shock:

Apply to both for the love of everything you consider dear. Sell things on craigslist to get the money if you have to. Consider selling yourself if you have no tangible assets. This is not a difficult question.


+1. Are you damn serious? Applications are nothing compared to the future costs of law school, which are similarly small compared to the future salaries of HLS and Yale grads.

User avatar
servinDizzert
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby servinDizzert » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:43 pm

Hannibal wrote:
Bumi wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard.


:shock:

Apply to both for the love of everything you consider dear. Sell things on craigslist to get the money if you have to. Consider selling yourself if you have no tangible assets. This is not a difficult question.


+1. Are you damn serious? Applications are nothing compared to the future costs of law school, which are similarly small compared to the future salaries of HLS and Yale grads.



+infinity

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby im_blue » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:53 am

Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard. LSN says 40% for both.

How is this possible when Harvard (3.89/173) and Yale (3.90/173) have virtually identical medians? If you had to choose one, Harvard would be the safer choice.

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Bumi » Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:40 pm

im_blue wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard. LSN says 40% for both.

How is this possible when Harvard (3.89/173) and Yale (3.90/173) have virtually identical medians? If you had to choose one, Harvard would be the safer choice.


No no no. If you had to choose one, choosing both is the safer choice. This shouldn't be a conversation. If you are close to medians at Harvard and Yale, you apply to Harvard and you also apply to Yale. That way, if you get rejected at Harvard or Yale, you still have a shot at Harvard or Yale. If you are literally subsisting on food stamps and wearing hand me down clothes, and you have no family from whom to borrow the money, this is still the right answer.

The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."

Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:19 pm

im_blue wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard. LSN says 40% for both.

How is this possible when Harvard (3.89/173) and Yale (3.90/173) have virtually identical medians? If you had to choose one, Harvard would be the safer choice.


Where are you getting the H numbers? LSN has Harvard 3.86/172. Are these old?

Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:27 pm

Bumi wrote:
The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."


Yes, I agree. I'll apply to Y and H but I'm not holding out any hope at all. But how far to cast my net is more what I'm interested in.

Does this sound reasonable:
Slightly above or at both medians = target, but sticker
Above median = target, some money
At 75% or above = safety, $$$

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Bumi » Mon Aug 09, 2010 4:47 pm

Hey-O wrote:
Bumi wrote:
The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."


Yes, I agree. I'll apply to Y and H but I'm not holding out any hope at all. But how far to cast my net is more what I'm interested in.

Does this sound reasonable:
Slightly above or at both medians = target, but sticker
Above median = target, some money
At 75% or above = safety, $$$

Here's your answer. I don't know that it's simple, unfortunately. (By the way: what the hell is Michigan's problem?)

Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:11 pm

Bumi wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Bumi wrote:
The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."


Yes, I agree. I'll apply to Y and H but I'm not holding out any hope at all. But how far to cast my net is more what I'm interested in.

Does this sound reasonable:
Slightly above or at both medians = target, but sticker
Above median = target, some money
At 75% or above = safety, $$$

Here's your answer. I don't know that it's simple, unfortunately. (By the way: what the hell is Michigan's problem?)


Thanks for this website; I haven't found this one before. It is much more effective than me just going to LSN and trying to gauge scholarships that way.

Bumi
Posts: 947
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:57 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Bumi » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:21 pm

Oh yeah definitely. It's way better than trying to come up with a rule of thumb based on medians and percentiles. Good luck, you've got some jealousy-inducing numbers and should have a jealousy-inducing cycle.

ilovemulch
Posts: 366
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:24 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby ilovemulch » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:23 pm

Bumi wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Bumi wrote:
The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."


Yes, I agree. I'll apply to Y and H but I'm not holding out any hope at all. But how far to cast my net is more what I'm interested in.

Does this sound reasonable:
Slightly above or at both medians = target, but sticker
Above median = target, some money
At 75% or above = safety, $$$

Here's your answer. I don't know that it's simple, unfortunately. (By the way: what the hell is Michigan's problem?)


I heard the hourumd website is too optimistic as it is based on data from the past several years and it's clearly gotten much more competitive to get into most schools in the past year or two...? Anyone have any knowledge if this is true (about it being too optimistic)?

Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:26 pm

Bumi wrote:Oh yeah definitely. It's way better than trying to come up with a rule of thumb based on medians and percentiles. Good luck, you've got some jealousy-inducing numbers and should have a jealousy-inducing cycle.


Thanks, this means a lot, right now I'm pretty nervous ITE; I hope you're right :mrgreen: . Good luck in your cycle as well.

User avatar
Hannibal
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hannibal » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:54 pm

Bumi wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Bumi wrote:
The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."


Yes, I agree. I'll apply to Y and H but I'm not holding out any hope at all. But how far to cast my net is more what I'm interested in.

Does this sound reasonable:
Slightly above or at both medians = target, but sticker
Above median = target, some money
At 75% or above = safety, $$$

Here's your answer. I don't know that it's simple, unfortunately. (By the way: what the hell is Michigan's problem?)


That site seems to be based on a criminally small sample size. I put in one theoretical LSAT score, and I had 100% acceptance at my target school with an ok chance at good money. I put in another smaller theoretical LSAT score and I still had 100% acceptance at the school, but with a way bigger chance at money.

Hey-O
Posts: 719
Joined: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:50 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hey-O » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:58 pm

Hannibal wrote:
Bumi wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Bumi wrote:
The question of how low should the OP go into the T14 to make sure he's safe is much more interesting and should depend on whether safe means "in" or "paid for."


Yes, I agree. I'll apply to Y and H but I'm not holding out any hope at all. But how far to cast my net is more what I'm interested in.

Does this sound reasonable:
Slightly above or at both medians = target, but sticker
Above median = target, some money
At 75% or above = safety, $$$

Here's your answer. I don't know that it's simple, unfortunately. (By the way: what the hell is Michigan's problem?)


That site seems to be based on a criminally small sample size. I put in one theoretical LSAT score, and I had 100% acceptance at my target school with an ok chance at good money. I put in another smaller theoretical LSAT score and I still had 100% acceptance at the school, but with a way bigger chance at money.


It's because it based on LSN, which, especially for $$$ is too small a sample size. But it is a useful compilation of LSN. More useful than say, looking at LSN for each school individually and trying to gauge scholly amounts.

Edit: fixed the quotes
Last edited by Hey-O on Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hannibal
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 12:00 pm

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby Hannibal » Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:00 pm

:oops: Yeah.

Edit: oh you messed up the quotes. Slightly less oops.

User avatar
im_blue
Posts: 3276
Joined: Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:53 am

Re: Is median a target or a reach?

Postby im_blue » Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:24 am

Hey-O wrote:
im_blue wrote:
Hey-O wrote:I'm slightly below both medians at Yale and I'm at medians for Harvard. LSN says 40% for both.

How is this possible when Harvard (3.89/173) and Yale (3.90/173) have virtually identical medians? If you had to choose one, Harvard would be the safer choice.


Where are you getting the H numbers? LSN has Harvard 3.86/172. Are these old?

Official ABA data for Class of 2012.

http://officialguide.lsac.org/SearchRes ... BA3457.pdf




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider], Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests