Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )

What should I do?

Retake, then see what happens
4
18%
Apply ED to NYU
14
64%
Apply ED to Michigan
4
18%
 
Total votes: 22

vicuna
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Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby vicuna » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:40 am

I have a 170 and a 3.7 at a non-HYP Ivy with decent softs. I'm currently interested in public interest, so LRAP is a factor, but that could easily change. For this reason, as well as my love for New York, I like NYU.

Though I was satisfied with my 170, I was PTing at 171 and I only took about eight to nine practice tests over the course of two or three months. So, I feel like, with a little extra studying, I could hit the 172-175 range, thereby greatly increasing my chances at CCN (especially NYU). However, I am satisfied with MVP and am developing a special affinity for Michigan (where I'm visiting in a week). Also, I'd obviously prefer to apply in September rather than wait until after my October score is released.

The problem: due to an intensive summer internship, I haven't yet begun prepping for the retake and I fear that my time will also be limited in September, as I am taking a full schedule as a senior in undergrad.

Is the prestige of CCN worth hitting the books and preparing for the retake with the month and a half I have left? Also, are my chances at NYU good enough to justify and ED application? Few people on LSN with similar numbers have had much luck at NYU ED in previous cycles. Lastly, are my chances at Michigan strong enough to justify a RD application?

Thanks.

byunbee
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:45 am

If you're planning on retaking and seriously think you can score into the mid 170's, I would not ED at NYU. You can get in through RD and maybe even get some money at Michigan (or get YP'ed :( ). Take a look at LSN, I know a couple of 172-173's at U of M who got huge scholarships.

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GordonCole
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby GordonCole » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:49 pm

I would retake. Personally, I don't think you need to re-study much, if at all, for a retake. When you consider the possible rewards of scoring higher I think it's a smart choice.

When I applied I was in a similar, albeit worse, position and retaking was a great choice. I had been getting 172ish on practice tests but got a 167 on the September test. I was shooting for CCN so that was a real bummer. At the time I was worried about retaking for similar reasons. I thought I wouldn't have time to study during my fall semester of my senior year and I would be stressed with doing senior thesis work. But I'm a risk-taker so I just went ahead and signed up for a retake.

I didn't look at any LSAT stuff, think about the LSAT or anything until the day before the December test. Even then I probably spent an hour doing practice to get everything fresh in my mind. For whatever reason, I felt much more confident the second time and the test seemed much easier. 3 weeks later I was pleasantly surprised to find I got a 178. I think part of it was that I was reading, thinking and writing for college classes is by itself pretty decent practice for the LSAT. During my LSAT prep I was working an easy summer job and spending a significant amount of time drinking/smoking/having fun. During school I was spending 40 hours a week doing academic work. I think that really helped me give it my best shot.

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servinDizzert
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby servinDizzert » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:51 pm

ED to NYU the first day...get in...be happy

byunbee
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:54 pm

Don't take the December LSAT unless you're planning on taking a year off. You would be applying a little too late into the cycle.

MissLucky
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby MissLucky » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:55 pm

GordonCole wrote:I would retake. Personally, I don't think you need to re-study much, if at all, for a retake. When you consider the possible rewards of scoring higher I think it's a smart choice.

When I applied I was in a similar, albeit worse, position and retaking was a great choice. I had been getting 172ish on practice tests but got a 167 on the September test. I was shooting for CCN so that was a real bummer. At the time I was worried about retaking for similar reasons. I thought I wouldn't have time to study during my fall semester of my senior year and I would be stressed with doing senior thesis work. But I'm a risk-taker so I just went ahead and signed up for a retake.

I didn't look at any LSAT stuff, think about the LSAT or anything until the day before the December test. Even then I probably spent an hour doing practice to get everything fresh in my mind. For whatever reason, I felt much more confident the second time and the test seemed much easier. 3 weeks later I was pleasantly surprised to find I got a 178. I think part of it was that I was reading, thinking and writing for college classes is by itself pretty decent practice for the LSAT. During my LSAT prep I was working an easy summer job and spending a significant amount of time drinking/smoking/having fun. During school I was spending 40 hours a week doing academic work. I think that really helped me give it my best shot.


wow that's an awesome story. i'm very jealous.

byunbee
Posts: 193
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:00 pm

GordonCole wrote:I would retake. Personally, I don't think you need to re-study much, if at all, for a retake. When you consider the possible rewards of scoring higher I think it's a smart choice.

When I applied I was in a similar, albeit worse, position and retaking was a great choice. I had been getting 172ish on practice tests but got a 167 on the September test. I was shooting for CCN so that was a real bummer. At the time I was worried about retaking for similar reasons. I thought I wouldn't have time to study during my fall semester of my senior year and I would be stressed with doing senior thesis work. But I'm a risk-taker so I just went ahead and signed up for a retake.

I didn't look at any LSAT stuff, think about the LSAT or anything until the day before the December test. Even then I probably spent an hour doing practice to get everything fresh in my mind. For whatever reason, I felt much more confident the second time and the test seemed much easier. 3 weeks later I was pleasantly surprised to find I got a 178. I think part of it was that I was reading, thinking and writing for college classes is by itself pretty decent practice for the LSAT. During my LSAT prep I was working an easy summer job and spending a significant amount of time drinking/smoking/having fun. During school I was spending 40 hours a week doing academic work. I think that really helped me give it my best shot.


I'm jealous as hell, but this is not really advice for anyone to follow.

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existenz
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby existenz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:02 pm

Apply to all the schools in Sep but retake the Oct LSAT. A 170 is good enough to get you into a lot of T14 schools, and if you can pull off a higher score then go for it.

I haven't heard any anecdotal evidence on TLS of people being hurt by retaking, since schools almost always go for the higher score anyway. Obviously you wouldn't want to score lower, so you'll have to study more. But there are plenty of stories (myself included) of people who retook and improved their cycle as a result.

I wouldn't ED to NYU unless you are NYC or bust.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:05 pm

When I re-took, I didn't do any LSAT stuff until about 4 weeks before the test. Then I did a few (like 4-5) of the newest LSATs and went through some of the Kaplan Mastery book. I put in a lot less effort than the first time, but I was a lot less stressed and ended up scoring much higher on the 2nd time and it allowed me to get into the CCN I wanted.

However, for the OP.. you are in a difficult spot. If you re-take and do worse, you almost certainly won't get in CCN without ED. If you don't retake, and you ED.. you might get into NYU (I don't know enough about the school to say anything definitively). If you re-take and do better, you might be able to get into NYU w/ $$ or Columbia. And who knows, maybe Darrow at Michigan isn't out of the question? No one will be able to tell you exactly what you should do, but I guess you should do some research and then look at the risk/reward.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby acrossthelake » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:05 pm

I mean, if you think you could do better, having a higher LSAT would at the least secure you more scholarship money. Imo the easiest money to ever "earn".

byunbee
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:12 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:However, for the OP.. you are in a difficult spot. If you re-take and do worse, you almost certainly won't get in CCN without ED. If you don't retake, and you ED.. you might get into NYU (I don't know enough about the school to say anything definitively). If you re-take and do better, you might be able to get into NYU w/ $$ or Columbia. And who knows, maybe Darrow at Michigan isn't out of the question? No one will be able to tell you exactly what you should do, but I guess you should do some research and then look at the risk/reward.


OP would probably need closer to 4.0 w/ significant softs to have a chance at Darrow, but a 1/3 to half tuition scholly with 3.7/~172 isn't out of the question, though.

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JollyGreenGiant
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby JollyGreenGiant » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:38 pm

byunbee wrote:
JollyGreenGiant wrote:However, for the OP.. you are in a difficult spot. If you re-take and do worse, you almost certainly won't get in CCN without ED. If you don't retake, and you ED.. you might get into NYU (I don't know enough about the school to say anything definitively). If you re-take and do better, you might be able to get into NYU w/ $$ or Columbia. And who knows, maybe Darrow at Michigan isn't out of the question? No one will be able to tell you exactly what you should do, but I guess you should do some research and then look at the risk/reward.


OP would probably need closer to 4.0 w/ significant softs to have a chance at Darrow, but a 1/3 to half tuition scholly with 3.7/~172 isn't out of the question, though.

As far as I know, Darrows aren't as numbers-based as you'd think. Hell, a good portion of us got WLed with great numbers. Yet I know of plenty of people with lower numbers who got Darrows. He says he has good softs and is from an ivy... it certainly isn't out of the question. (Though, I'd never assume getting one)

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WrappedUpInBooks
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby WrappedUpInBooks » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:44 pm

If I were you, I would ED to NYU. If you don't get in, take a year off, retake the LSAT, and reapply.

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Grizz
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby Grizz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:49 pm

byunbee wrote:Don't take the December LSAT unless you're planning on taking a year off. You would be applying a little too late into the cycle.


Not if all your apps are in already. The score will be automatically disseminated.

calbears619
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby calbears619 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:50 pm

If you were PTing at 171 I don't think that getting a 170 on test day is bad at all...and given your schedule in the fall I don't think you would have enough study time to get a higher score

byunbee
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:51 pm

JollyGreenGiant wrote:
byunbee wrote:
JollyGreenGiant wrote:However, for the OP.. you are in a difficult spot. If you re-take and do worse, you almost certainly won't get in CCN without ED. If you don't retake, and you ED.. you might get into NYU (I don't know enough about the school to say anything definitively). If you re-take and do better, you might be able to get into NYU w/ $$ or Columbia. And who knows, maybe Darrow at Michigan isn't out of the question? No one will be able to tell you exactly what you should do, but I guess you should do some research and then look at the risk/reward.


OP would probably need closer to 4.0 w/ significant softs to have a chance at Darrow, but a 1/3 to half tuition scholly with 3.7/~172 isn't out of the question, though.

As far as I know, Darrows aren't as numbers-based as you'd think. Hell, a good portion of us got WLed with great numbers. Yet I know of plenty of people with lower numbers who got Darrows. He says he has good softs and is from an ivy... it certainly isn't out of the question. (Though, I'd never assume getting one)


I suppose you're right. I just assumed the Darrows required higher numbers because I recalled that the few recipients who posted on this site all scored above 171.

Regardless of the Darrow, though, the OP could stand to receive a significant scholarship from Michigan. Granted, if he ends up scoring any higher on his LSAT, he could also end up on the WLed.

byunbee
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:54 pm

rad law wrote:
byunbee wrote:Don't take the December LSAT unless you're planning on taking a year off. You would be applying a little too late into the cycle.


Not if all your apps are in already. The score will be automatically disseminated.


I guess you're right. I'd hate to apply not knowing what I scored on the last LSAT, though.

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Grizz
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby Grizz » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:57 pm

byunbee wrote:
rad law wrote:
byunbee wrote:Don't take the December LSAT unless you're planning on taking a year off. You would be applying a little too late into the cycle.


Not if all your apps are in already. The score will be automatically disseminated.


I guess you're right. I'd hate to apply not knowing what I scored on the last LSAT, though.


Yeah I feel what you're saying exactly.

FWIW, I waited for my score and applied to 4 schools in mid-Jan (including the school I plan to attend) and I don't think it hurt me one bit, though others in similar situations have expressed that they thought it did. It's hard to know, but so many people take the Dec. LSAT that as long as apps are in, it should be fine.

byunbee
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 1:58 pm

vicuna wrote:However, I am satisfied with MVP and am developing a special affinity for Michigan (where I'm visiting in a week).


I think you'll be visiting a week before finals begin for summer starters. You might see a lot of stressed out people on campus.

byunbee
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:03 pm

rad law wrote:
byunbee wrote:
rad law wrote:
byunbee wrote:Don't take the December LSAT unless you're planning on taking a year off. You would be applying a little too late into the cycle.


Not if all your apps are in already. The score will be automatically disseminated.


I guess you're right. I'd hate to apply not knowing what I scored on the last LSAT, though.


Yeah I feel what you're saying exactly.

FWIW, I waited for my score and applied to 4 schools in mid-Jan (including the school I plan to attend) and I don't think it hurt me one bit, though others in similar situations have expressed that they thought it did. It's hard to know, but so many people take the Dec. LSAT that as long as apps are in, it should be fine.


But OP can't ED at NYU and retake in December, right? He can apply ED at NYU and retake if he doesn't get in, but I think he would be screwing himself out of $ at a school like Michigan.

vicuna
Posts: 208
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Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby vicuna » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:46 pm

byunbee wrote:
JollyGreenGiant wrote:
byunbee wrote:
JollyGreenGiant wrote:However, for the OP.. you are in a difficult spot. If you re-take and do worse, you almost certainly won't get in CCN without ED. If you don't retake, and you ED.. you might get into NYU (I don't know enough about the school to say anything definitively). If you re-take and do better, you might be able to get into NYU w/ $$ or Columbia. And who knows, maybe Darrow at Michigan isn't out of the question? No one will be able to tell you exactly what you should do, but I guess you should do some research and then look at the risk/reward.


OP would probably need closer to 4.0 w/ significant softs to have a chance at Darrow, but a 1/3 to half tuition scholly with 3.7/~172 isn't out of the question, though.

As far as I know, Darrows aren't as numbers-based as you'd think. Hell, a good portion of us got WLed with great numbers. Yet I know of plenty of people with lower numbers who got Darrows. He says he has good softs and is from an ivy... it certainly isn't out of the question. (Though, I'd never assume getting one)


I suppose you're right. I just assumed the Darrows required higher numbers because I recalled that the few recipients who posted on this site all scored above 171.

Regardless of the Darrow, though, the OP could stand to receive a significant scholarship from Michigan. Granted, if he ends up scoring any higher on his LSAT, he could also end up on the WLed.


You're saying that I could stand to receive a significant scholarship from Michigan with a retake or with my current numbers?

byunbee
Posts: 193
Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 3:12 pm

Re: Retake or just apply early at NYU or Michigan?

Postby byunbee » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:57 pm

vicuna wrote:You're saying that I could stand to receive a significant scholarship from Michigan with a retake or with my current numbers?


If you get accepted either way, you will probably land a significant scholarship. Plenty of people with identical or similar numbers received $45,000 (over three years) or more. If you score higher on the lsat and get accepted, you will most definitely be looking at more money. Of course, this is taking into account soft factors, as well.

http://michigan.lawschoolnumbers.com/applicants




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