International Students

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Nulli Secundus
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International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:53 am

So, requirements for F-1 Visa require you to state your intent to leave the country when your studies are over, yet, how can anyone do that if one gains admission to a good LS and incurs a crapton of educational debt along the way?

Also, I need other international students' experience on one more matter; F-1 visa also stipulates leaving the country in 60 days after the completion of the program, how do you cram bar exam and a job offer in that time frame?

Thanks in advance.

moonie
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Re: International Students

Postby moonie » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:03 am

If you get into YHS, you can probably borrow money directly from the school; otherwise, you need a citizen or a permanent resident to sponsor your loan application from a private bank.Typically, international students try to work in US for at least a few years after graduation in order to pay off the debt.

And, of course, many international students don't really pay sticker with loan from what I know - partial tuition waiver, rich parents, government sponsorship from home country...etc.

For post-graduation, you'll have to apply for OPT (a.k.a. an employment authorization which extends your stay in the US) in order to have enough time to take the bar. Ask your school's international center for details.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Thu Aug 05, 2010 6:20 am

My first question wasn't about financial aid options, I know all about them.

What I meant to ask was, will I be denied a F-1 visa automatically if I make my intent of working in US after law school, at least until I pay off my educational debt? Or will they be lenient in that regard, even if the visa conditions clearly state the visa is given on the condition of your guarantee of leaving the country once your studies are over?

creatinganalt
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Re: International Students

Postby creatinganalt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 7:27 am

nullisecundus wrote:My first question wasn't about financial aid options, I know all about them.

What I meant to ask was, will I be denied a F-1 visa automatically if I make my intent of working in US after law school, at least until I pay off my educational debt? Or will they be lenient in that regard, even if the visa conditions clearly state the visa is given on the condition of your guarantee of leaving the country once your studies are over?


YES

USCIS is not lenient about this.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:36 am

Anyone to confirm?

creatinganalt
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Re: International Students

Postby creatinganalt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:06 pm

Depending on your country, do some googling for expat forums and ask the question there - usually a few immigration lawyers who can advise. Or call an International Office and ask them. Why you would want to mess around with US immigration I don't know but don't come whinging when you express immigrant intent on a NON IMMIGRANT VISA and they don't let you in.

Hint: if something is a requirement of the visa, they require it for the visa.



Moron.

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:02 pm

First of all, H1-B is not an immigrant visa, my intention of working until paying my debt off does not mean I want to live in the US forever after. Thus, my question does not have an inherent contradiction, making you the moron I guess. (:))

jman77
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Re: International Students

Postby jman77 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:17 pm

nullisecundus wrote:First of all, H1-B is not an immigrant visa, my intention of working until paying my debt off does not mean I want to live in the US forever after. Thus, my question does not have an inherent contradiction, making you the moron I guess. (:))


Dual intent is allowed if you're on or applying for an H-1B (I currently am on H-1B but came to the US on an F-1 a couple of years ago). Not allowed if you're applying for an F-1. Just like for the B1/B2 visa class, you have to prove ties to your home country and an intent to return once you're done with your studies.

It would still be best if you pose these questions to an immigration lawyer or your school's international student center once you actually get admitted. They would know the nuances a lot better than most posters here.

Edit: You have to prove intent to return to your home country... whether or not you actually intend to do so is a separate matter altogether :) Telling the consul you plan on working in the US after you graduate, even if only until you are able to pay off your loans, will probably not be a good idea.
Last edited by jman77 on Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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20121109
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Re: International Students

Postby 20121109 » Thu Aug 05, 2010 4:19 pm

Tagged for potential lulz

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:59 am

Thanks Jman, exactly what I needed to know, as opposed to agression caused by the frustration about a total lack of reading comprehension.

creatinganalt
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Re: International Students

Postby creatinganalt » Fri Aug 06, 2010 6:01 am

You're right. Please ignore me and have this conversation with ConOff.

OP, your further post made absolutely no sense. Not just because the H1-B is a dual intent visa and the F-1 is not (hint google is your friend). But because intending to hop from visa to visa to prolong your stay in the US is displaying immigrant intent . FFS do some reading around this before you go for your visa interview. Because immigration lawyers are good but they can't cure stupid.

For some evidence, please see the link below.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/teleg ... _2734.html

"Nonetheless, the consular officer must be satisfied at the
time of application for a visa that an alien possesses the
present intent to depart the U.S. at the conclusion of his
or her studies
. That this intention is subject to change
or even likely to change is not a sufficient reason to
deny a visa."


They know most students have few ties to their home country. They are young and pretty mobile. They know that many students do end up staying. That's fine. But on a non immigrant visa you must possess the intent to leave after your visa is up. Hopping from visa to visa in the US to stay can be interpreted as having immigrant intent. Immigrant intent doesn't have to mean 'I want to live in the US forever and ever and ever'. And even if then you say that you don't want to be there forever, why would they believe you? They are not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. You are giving them a chance to deny you by violating one of the terms on which the visa is issued.

And anyone who is financially dependent on getting a job in the US after they finish their studies is a greater immigration risk. Because if you don't get a job, or get a job but no visa, you are probably more likely to work illegally and overstay because you may feel you have no better choice. Or you may try to get married fraudulently. As many students do. This is what you are putting into the ConOff's mind by raising this issue. This is why it is a bad idea.

Depending on your country they may not even care about ties because if very few people from your country overstay, you are not considered a risk. So to make yourself seem like a risk is insane. And if they do care (if you are from certain countries who always stay/overstay) then they will ask and if you seem to be lying, changing your answers or trying to emigrate then you will be denied and good luck ever getting a student visa.

Seriously, how is this difficult to understand?

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:00 am

I never said I did not understand your answer, since your subsequent replies included colorful language, I just dismissed you as a douchebag.

creatinganalt
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Re: International Students

Postby creatinganalt » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:21 am

nullisecundus wrote:I never said I did not understand your answer, since your subsequent replies included colorful language, I just dismissed you as a douchebag.


Do you understand that you don't understand what "immigrant intent" or "visa requirement" mean?

You sort of strike me as one of those people who does no research on something, rejects the advice given and then complains when how awful America is when the problems arise.

And regardless of whether you whether you like me or not, please at least speak to an immigration lawyer (http://www.aila.org) before going ahead with this (terrible terrible plan).

jman77
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Re: International Students

Postby jman77 » Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:44 am

creatinganalt wrote:You're right. Please ignore me and have this conversation with ConOff.

OP, your further post made absolutely no sense. Not just because the H1-B is a dual intent visa and the F-1 is not (hint google is your friend). But because intending to hop from visa to visa to prolong your stay in the US is displaying immigrant intent . FFS do some reading around this before you go for your visa interview. Because immigration lawyers are good but they can't cure stupid.

For some evidence, please see the link below.

http://travel.state.gov/visa/laws/teleg ... _2734.html

"Nonetheless, the consular officer must be satisfied at the
time of application for a visa that an alien possesses the
present intent to depart the U.S. at the conclusion of his
or her studies
. That this intention is subject to change
or even likely to change is not a sufficient reason to
deny a visa."


They know most students have few ties to their home country. They are young and pretty mobile. They know that many students do end up staying. That's fine. But on a non immigrant visa you must possess the intent to leave after your visa is up. Hopping from visa to visa in the US to stay can be interpreted as having immigrant intent. Immigrant intent doesn't have to mean 'I want to live in the US forever and ever and ever'. And even if then you say that you don't want to be there forever, why would they believe you? They are not going to give you the benefit of the doubt. You are giving them a chance to deny you by violating one of the terms on which the visa is issued.

And anyone who is financially dependent on getting a job in the US after they finish their studies is a greater immigration risk. Because if you don't get a job, or get a job but no visa, you are probably more likely to work illegally and overstay because you may feel you have no better choice. Or you may try to get married fraudulently. As many students do. This is what you are putting into the ConOff's mind by raising this issue. This is why it is a bad idea.

Depending on your country they may not even care about ties because if very few people from your country overstay, you are not considered a risk. So to make yourself seem like a risk is insane. And if they do care (if you are from certain countries who always stay/overstay) then they will ask and if you seem to be lying, changing your answers or trying to emigrate then you will be denied and good luck ever getting a student visa.

Seriously, how is this difficult to understand?


There are very good points in this post. Which country you come from can have an impact on your ability to get the F1. I understand that students from China and India sometimes have a hard time getting the F1 because of the high rate of immigration from said countries.

And to reiterate a previous point I raised, technically, it's not the fact that you intend to leave after your studies are over that is important. Rather, it's your ability to "prove" this intent to the consul. Financing your studies with US loans may lead the consul to conclude that you intend to stay in the US after you graduate and can therefore impact your visa application negatively. Hence, it will probably be better if you obtain your loans from a bank/lending agency in your own country, if you indeed end up taking out loans.

Alternatively, you could do what I did. I got a relative to write a certification letter stating that he would be financing whatever portion of the COA was not covered by the scholarship I got. He of course had to furnish bank statements to prove he actually had the funds. Proof of financial capability is necessary to get the I-20, which in turn is necessary to get the F1. Once I actually got into the US, I applied for and obtained a student loan (you would need a US citizen/permanent resident cosigner for this).

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kazu
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Re: International Students

Postby kazu » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:05 am

jman77 wrote: Financing your studies with US loans may lead the consul to conclude that you intend to stay in the US after you graduate and can therefore impact your visa application negatively. Hence, it will probably be better if you obtain your loans from a bank/lending agency in your own country, if you indeed end up taking out loans.

Alternatively, you could do what I did. I got a relative to write a certification letter stating that he would be financing whatever portion of the COA was not covered by the scholarship I got. He of course had to furnish bank statements to prove he actually had the funds. Proof of financial capability is necessary to get the I-20, which in turn is necessary to get the F1. Once I actually got into the US, I applied for and obtained a student loan (you would need a US citizen/permanent resident cosigner for this).


I feel that this is especially important. When you apply for your student visa you need to prove that you have the means to pay for the debt - whether it be from scholarships, loans or from family/personal funds, etc. If it is from personal funds you have to submit proof, like the abovementioned bank statement. If you answer "I plan on working in the States as an attorney for a few years after I graduate, because that's the only way I'll be able pay back this money", I'm pretty sure that's grounds for them to deny you an F1.

Also, creatinganalt had a lot of valid points. And moonie also answered a portion of your original question regarding how you would study for the bar on your original student visa. What's with all this hostility?

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Nulli Secundus
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Re: International Students

Postby Nulli Secundus » Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:11 am

Excuse me, but he called me a moron out of blue and I am the hostile one now?

This has gone on long enough, I fully understood what you meant, thanks for the valid points raised, not so much for the insults.

/thread.

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LLB2JD
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Re: International Students

Postby LLB2JD » Fri Aug 06, 2010 12:42 pm

Oh boy, that went down the hill fast. To OP, I'll suggest to you (or your friend) not to display any intention to remain here after you graduate. It is almost an automatic reason to reject your visa app.




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