Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

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Hey-O
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Hey-O » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:33 pm

Hannibal wrote:Not having an A+ would be a huge disservice to the students if you also have an A-.


+10000 My GPA dropped by like .4 because of this. All my A- dropped my GPA, but the classes where I would have gotten and A+ didn't show up.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby 270910 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:37 pm

Hey-O wrote:
Hannibal wrote:Not having an A+ would be a huge disservice to the students if you also have an A-.


+10000 My GPA dropped by like .4 because of this. All my A- dropped my GPA, but the classes where I would have gotten and A+ didn't show up.


This aggressively stupid. At schools where A+s are given, A- is probably given 20-30x more often. It's not like there's a whole new upper end on the scale that tons of people fall in to and everything gets bumped up. Or were you constantly the best student in half your classes but pulling A-s in your others? And on top of that, your GPA wouldn't having fucking dropped by .4. Even if every A you had turned into an A+ it wouldn't have changed by even .3 -.-

Hey-O
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Hey-O » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:45 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Hannibal wrote:Not having an A+ would be a huge disservice to the students if you also have an A-.


+10000 My GPA dropped by like .4 because of this. All my A- dropped my GPA, but the classes where I would have gotten and A+ didn't show up.


This aggressively stupid. At schools where A+s are given, A- is probably given 20-30x more often. It's not like there's a whole new upper end on the scale that tons of people fall in to and everything gets bumped up. Or were you constantly the best student in half your classes but pulling A-s in your others? And on top of that, your GPA wouldn't having fucking dropped by .4. Even if every A you had turned into an A+ it wouldn't have changed by even .3 -.-


Hmm...I'm sorry it's aggressively stupid. (I try to keep my stupidity benign :D) but it's the truth. My school when 90-95 A- and above 95 A. I'm just saying that my school lowered my GPA with A- without offering the chance to raise them via A+. Other students at other schools have As at anything above 90.

I'd have to check my exact GPA (sorry I don't have it memorized), but I think it was .4. It could have been .3.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:48 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
ajmanyjah wrote:
Yes, strawmen. Did I say Psych is the hardest major at my school? My bad on Al Gore, but didn't he bomb a shitload of courses?

I care if Harvard is hard or not, because I appreciate academic rigor (one of my major motivations to get into the law)...oh, and I was inches from academia until a settled on the law


LOL this explains everything.


LOLZ

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby 270910 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:55 pm

Hey-O wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Hey-O wrote:
Hannibal wrote:Not having an A+ would be a huge disservice to the students if you also have an A-.


+10000 My GPA dropped by like .4 because of this. All my A- dropped my GPA, but the classes where I would have gotten and A+ didn't show up.


This aggressively stupid. At schools where A+s are given, A- is probably given 20-30x more often. It's not like there's a whole new upper end on the scale that tons of people fall in to and everything gets bumped up. Or were you constantly the best student in half your classes but pulling A-s in your others? And on top of that, your GPA wouldn't having fucking dropped by .4. Even if every A you had turned into an A+ it wouldn't have changed by even .3 -.-


Hmm...I'm sorry it's aggressively stupid. (I try to keep my stupidity benign :D) but it's the truth. My school when 90-95 A- and above 95 A. I'm just saying that my school lowered my GPA with A- without offering the chance to raise them via A+. Other students at other schools have As at anything above 90.

I'd have to check my exact GPA (sorry I don't have it memorized), but I think it was .4. It could have been .3.


OK...? At my undergrad 90-94 was an A- and 95-100 was an A. An A+ was given on occasion, at the discretion of the professor, rarely even one per class.

I guarantee you your GPA would not be impactfully higher if A+ was an option at your school.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby ajmanyjah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:02 pm

disco_barred wrote:
OK...? At my undergrad 90-94 was an A- and 95-100 was an A. An A+ was given on occasion, at the discretion of the professor, rarely even one per class.

I guarantee you your GPA would not be impactfully higher if A+ was an option at your school.


So it was a suckup grade. That's even worse...

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:28 pm

It shouldn't count if ldsac gpa is meant to standardize gpa.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:28 pm

It shouldn't count if ldsac gpa is meant to standardize gpa.

hellokitty
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby hellokitty » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:34 pm

There were more than 20 courses on my transcript that I got A+ in. I would be PISSED if they didn't count it. Some of those were grades over 100%. I don't see a problem with rewarding people for doing well.

Maybe there should be a way that schools could report percentages so that 98% grades at schools that don't give A+ are counted that way by LSDAS?

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby d34d9823 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:55 pm

hellokitty wrote:There were more than 20 courses on my transcript that I got A+ in. I would be PISSED if they didn't count it. Some of those were grades over 100%. I don't see a problem with rewarding people for doing well.

Maybe there should be a way that schools could report percentages so that 98% grades at schools that don't give A+ are counted that way by LSDAS?

Schools who give A- but not A+ are penalizing their students. It's not LSAC's fault, it's the school's fault...which was originally chosen for undergrad by the student...so yeah, I don't buy all this blame shifting. If you wanted a school with A+s, you should have gone there, simple as that.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Knock » Tue Aug 03, 2010 10:57 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
hellokitty wrote:There were more than 20 courses on my transcript that I got A+ in. I would be PISSED if they didn't count it. Some of those were grades over 100%. I don't see a problem with rewarding people for doing well.

Maybe there should be a way that schools could report percentages so that 98% grades at schools that don't give A+ are counted that way by LSDAS?

Schools who give A- but not A+ are penalizing their students. It's not LSAC's fault, it's the school's fault...which was originally chosen for undergrad by the student...so yeah, I don't buy all this blame shifting. If you wanted a school with A+s, you should have gone there, simple as that.


Most people don't know what they want to do though when they're entering undergrad. Also, some people are forced into certain schools due to financial considerations.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby d34d9823 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:06 pm

Knockglock wrote:Most people don't know what they want to do though when they're entering undergrad. Also, some people are forced into certain schools due to financial considerations.

Agreed, but decisions have consequences, whether you weigh them carefully or not. Ignorance and lack of planning don't change that.

I see no reason to encourage an understanding of decision making in academia that doesn't reflect how decisions work in the real world.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby drdolittle » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:10 pm

GPA is unfortunately a subjective measure anyway, the A+ boost is a relatively minor issue. It's even more unfair that hard science majors and typically soft majors like psych or history get treated nearly the same, but it's the way it is. And lets not forget that the most selective (and even some not so selective) colleges across the country practice rampant grade inflation across the board...just the way it is.

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philip.platt
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby philip.platt » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:13 pm

tkgrrett wrote: 85% of what you learn in school is 100% useless.


what?

most of the stuff I learned in school was applied in my career

The application of knowledge learned in school is highly dependent on the degree and career path. I would think people getting degrees in the sciences would have a high amount of application and transfer of knowledge to having the 'rubber meet the road' in their career.

I would be interested to hear your major and expected career path.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:17 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
Knockglock wrote:Most people don't know what they want to do though when they're entering undergrad. Also, some people are forced into certain schools due to financial considerations.

Agreed, but decisions have consequences, whether you weigh them carefully or not. Ignorance and lack of planning don't change that.

I see no reason to encourage an understanding of decision making in academia that doesn't reflect how decisions work in the real world.


This is like trying to make cats play baseball. Academia is probably as far away from the real world as you can get. If you want reality, get to work.
Last edited by prezidentv8 on Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:20 pm

d34dluk3 wrote: I don't buy all this blame shifting. If you wanted a school with A+s, you should have gone there, simple as that.


Another poster has already addressed this to some extent, but this statement implies that it could be reasonably anticipated by a rising UG student that the A+ issue could later be penalizing... What student going into undergrad could reasonably anticipate this (without specific forewarning)? I imagine most rising undergrads don't even know whether the school they are entering gives A+s or not.

On the other hand there are numerous factors that make the law admissions process not necessarily entirely fair (e.g. hard major vs. easy weighted essentially the same, and relative grading rigor of different schools not substantially accounted for); compared to some of these other issues I think this may be relatively minor (heck you can still get a 4.0 at a school without A+s even though it may be harder to do).
Last edited by Lawquacious on Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MartianManhunter
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby MartianManhunter » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:27 pm

Nobody forced you to attend the school you are at now. If you are really concerned about the injustice of the A+, then transfer to a school that offers the grade and roll the dice there.

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Thomas Jefferson
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Thomas Jefferson » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:29 pm

GAIAtheCHEERLEADER wrote:College was four years of drunkenness, BS classes, and unprotected sexing.


QF P and T

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby d34d9823 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:44 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:This is like trying to make cats play baseball. Academia is probably as far away from the real world as you can get. If you want reality, get to work.

Yeah, I know and was going to comment on this, but thought it would take away from the point.

The thing is, they're already delusional and disconnected enough, we don't need to widen the gap.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby ajmanyjah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:47 pm

MartianManhunter wrote:Nobody forced you to attend the school you are at now. If you are really concerned about the injustice of the A+, then transfer to a school that offers the grade and roll the dice there.



Yes, because of what is effectively an uncompetitive monopoly dominating an industry, and doing so unfairly, I should (have) transferred schools. I am concerned about it, and so I would like it changed (along with many many stupidities in the LSAC system, some of which actually benefit me)

I mean, it is like asking a victim of monopsony to simply move to a different labor market. Unrealistic and stupid.

This all goes to the heart of what the LSDAS GPA PURPORTS to be...a standardization for comparison between school grading systems. How can a comparison be at all legitimate if the range differs?

Question-would a system in which the LSATs containing 101 questions were suddenly ranged from 115-185 be fair (and MORE importantly, comparable)?

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prezidentv8
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:48 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This is like trying to make cats play baseball. Academia is probably as far away from the real world as you can get. If you want reality, get to work.

Yeah, I know and was going to comment on this, but thought it would take away from the point.

The thing is, they're already delusional and disconnected enough, we don't need to widen the gap.


fair enough

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby ajmanyjah » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:50 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
prezidentv8 wrote:This is like trying to make cats play baseball. Academia is probably as far away from the real world as you can get. If you want reality, get to work.

Yeah, I know and was going to comment on this, but thought it would take away from the point.

The thing is, they're already delusional and disconnected enough, we don't need to widen the gap.


A bunch of lawyers and future lawyers trying to get into university post tertiary education talking about the social construct of academia being disconnected from the real world is a bit...unreal.

Especially as the entire requirement of law school and the bar to be a lawyer is a very recent, quite artificial construct that is probably more abstracted away from the "real world" than say, a neuroscientist talking about the motor cortex.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Lawquacious » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:52 pm

MartianManhunter wrote:Nobody forced you to attend the school you are at now. If you are really concerned about the injustice of the A+, then transfer to a school that offers the grade and roll the dice there.


I guess this must be directed to OP, but in that case I think it is misplaced (my impression is that OP has graduated and this is no longer an option for him). I do understand the 'quit whining' sentiment (at least that's essentially what I hear some people ITT saying), but the fact is that the A+ thing can to some degree penalize a person so it's understandable that it gets brought up.

The transferring thing might be an option in some cases, but obviously that is a significant move to base on this particular issue. Also, directing the blame back to the individual concerned with this issue glosses over the fact that the disparity has to do primarily with how LSDAS GPA is determined, not with poor individual choices.

FTR I have no horse in this race as I don't even know if the schools I went to gave A+s and don't really care at this point. But I do think making anyone who brings up a concern about this issue out to be responsible for the problem in some way isn't really fair. On the other hand, it's just the way it is,so complaining (except perhaps to LSAC directly) won't help the situation IMO.

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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Lawquacious » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:10 am

ajmanyjah wrote:Question-would a system in which the LSATs containing 101 questions were suddenly ranged from 115-185 be fair (and MORE importantly, comparable)?


On another note, LSAT isn't necessarily entirely fair either IMO, even though the range is precisely determined and scores equated (vs. GPA which does not have nearly the same equivalency). Some people test better than others (test anxiety etc), and although the tests are equated across test groups, an individual may perform better on one particular administration than on another because the type of games (or LR question types etc) fits into his/her strengths. The fact that you can take the test multiple times makes up for this to some extent, but there are definitely plenty of individuals who hit the higher end of what they're capable of vs. individuals who are very capable but didn't hit as well.
People with similar intellectual capacities for law school (on an individual level) could end up with very different school options based on this disparity of performance related to the make-up of a particular test or other conditions that may have inflated or deflated individual outcomes.

The bottom line is that there are inequalities in the law school application process that can work sometimes for and sometimes against a person.

EDIT: I still think the LSAT on the whole is a good admissions equalizer and in general a good comparison measure of varying applicants. It is just that there can be conditions- even related to the LSAT- that are not entirely fair which are involved in the application process.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Sell Manilla
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Re: Anyone think the 4.33 A+ is a bit silly for the LSDAS GPA?

Postby Sell Manilla » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:23 am

d34dluk3 wrote:Schools who give A- but not A+ are penalizing their students. It's not LSAC's fault, it's the school's fault...which was originally chosen for undergrad by the student...so yeah, I don't buy all this blame shifting. If you wanted a school with A+s, you should have gone there, simple as that.


You should choose a school for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with whether or not you can get an A+.

I went to a school where A was the top grade, & I got a handful of A-'s. It was tough to get an A. I'd go there again in a heartbeat.
Grading needs to be standardized. Students should not look into the grading policies of a school as a serious consideration in choosing a school.




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