Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

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NoGoodDeed
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Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:14 pm

Long story short, I am not a traditional LS applicant. I have attended 10 schools and recently earned my BA. My first few years I did very poorly - but ended up graduating with honors. I turned in all of my transcripts (which exceeded the slots available on the LSAT site - it has only eight slots) but I had my schools send my transcripts regardless.

So, I had my Cum GPA figured at a 3.011 (and I worked mighty hard to get it there) yet they have me listed at a 2.93 and told me they will not calculate my remaining 2 schools (3 classes) into there official LSAT GPA because they only take 8 schools!

I told them that a Cum GPA is the complete body of my academic work (as stated on their website) yet they refused to alter it. Additionally, these two schools being left off are much more recent than the 20+ year old grades they did cite on the report (one I was attending during my final semester from my degree granting school).

What can I do? I realize the schools will receive a copy of all of my transcripts but how do I let them know the LSAT GPA is missing 3 courses (all A's)? Honestly, the argument from LSAT seems weak - who came up with the arbitrary number of 8 schools anyways? I'm really down as the difference (as you all know) from a 3.01 to a 2.93 is huge. Addendum? Please help!

dakatz
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby dakatz » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:21 pm

NoGoodDeed wrote:Long story short, I am not a traditional LS applicant. I have attended 10 schools and recently earned my BA. My first few years I did very poorly - but ended up graduating with honors. I turned in all of my transcripts (which exceeded the slots available on the LSAT site - it has only eight slots) but I had my schools send my transcripts regardless.

So, I had my Cum GPA figured at a 3.011 (and I worked mighty hard to get it there) yet they have me listed at a 2.93 and told me they will not calculate my remaining 2 schools (3 classes) into there official LSAT GPA because they only take 8 schools!

I told them that a Cum GPA is the complete body of my academic work (as stated on their website) yet they refused to alter it. Additionally, these two schools being left off are much more recent than the 20+ year old grades they did cite on the report (one I was attending during my final semester from my degree granting school).

What can I do? I realize the schools will receive a copy of all of my transcripts but how do I let them know the LSAT GPA is missing 3 courses (all A's)? Honestly, the argument from LSAT seems weak - who came up with the arbitrary number of 8 schools anyways? I'm really down as the difference (as you all know) from a 3.01 to a 2.93 is huge. Addendum? Please help!


Absolutely send an addendum.

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Knock
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Knock » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:23 pm

NoGoodDeed wrote:Long story short, I am not a traditional LS applicant. I have attended 10 schools and recently earned my BA. My first few years I did very poorly - but ended up graduating with honors. I turned in all of my transcripts (which exceeded the slots available on the LSAT site - it has only eight slots) but I had my schools send my transcripts regardless.

So, I had my Cum GPA figured at a 3.011 (and I worked mighty hard to get it there) yet they have me listed at a 2.93 and told me they will not calculate my remaining 2 schools (3 classes) into there official LSAT GPA because they only take 8 schools!

I told them that a Cum GPA is the complete body of my academic work (as stated on their website) yet they refused to alter it. Additionally, these two schools being left off are much more recent than the 20+ year old grades they did cite on the report (one I was attending during my final semester from my degree granting school).

What can I do? I realize the schools will receive a copy of all of my transcripts but how do I let them know the LSAT GPA is missing 3 courses (all A's)? Honestly, the argument from LSAT seems weak - who came up with the arbitrary number of 8 schools anyways? I'm really down as the difference (as you all know) from a 3.01 to a 2.93 is huge. Addendum? Please help!


That seems pretty weak on LSAC's part. Sorry man, I doubt there is anything you can do. Many, many people get bent over by LSAC to be honest.

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Unitas
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Unitas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:24 pm

uh, flame?

Call LSAC again. They need to count them. Not really debatable. If this is really true - it gives people with really bad early grades and no degree yet a possible out. Just attend eight community colleges for one class each to get that other school not counted.

03121202698008
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:25 pm

They seem to be violating their own policy regarding all work being counted. I'd call back and ask to speak to a supervisor. Can you just pick your two lowest schools you don't want to count?

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Knock
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Knock » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:26 pm

Unitas wrote:uh, flame?

Call LSAC again. They need to count them. Not really debatable. If this is really true - it gives people with really bad early grades and no degree yet a possible out. Just attend eight community colleges for one class each to get that other school not counted.


I was under the impression that the schools that were left off were the most recent ones.

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Unitas
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Unitas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:26 pm

Knockglock wrote:
Unitas wrote:uh, flame?

Call LSAC again. They need to count them. Not really debatable. If this is really true - it gives people with really bad early grades and no degree yet a possible out. Just attend eight community colleges for one class each to get that other school not counted.


I was under the impression that the schools that were left off were the most recent ones.


I would assume they counted the 8 he/she put on the site as attended schools.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby KibblesAndVick » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:27 pm

Unitas wrote:uh, flame?

Call LSAC again. They need to count them. Not really debatable. If this is really true - it gives people with really bad early grades and no degree yet a possible out. Just attend eight community colleges for one class each to get that other school not counted.


Wouldn't this take significantly more effort than simply earning a 4.0 in a bullshit major at one community college?

edit: I can't read...

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:29 pm

Would an addendum be my best best? If I wrote somethign along the lines of:

To whom it may concern:

LSAT would only process 8 of my 10 transcripts so the GPA reflected (2.93) is not a complete representation of the body of my academic efforts. My degree granting institution did take those scores into consideration and my GPA is a 3.011.

Additionally, I would ask that you would consider the strong upward trend in my GPA twenty years after my initial attmept in the late 1980's. I graduated with a 3.89, Magna Cum Laude......yadda, yadda, yadda...????

I've never written one of these. Thoughts?

03121202698008
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:30 pm

The school still has to report the official LSDAS one. I'd elevate it to a supervisor.

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Unitas
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Unitas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:31 pm

NoGoodDeed wrote:Would an addendum be my best best? If I wrote somethign along the lines of:

To whom it may concern:

LSAT would only process 8 of my 10 transcripts so the GPA reflected (2.93) is not a complete representation of the body of my academic efforts. My degree granting institution did take those scores into consideration and my GPA is a 3.011.

Additionally, I would ask that you would consider the strong upward trend in my GPA twenty years after my initial attmept in the late 1980's. I graduated with a 3.89, Magna Cum Laude......yadda, yadda, yadda...????

I've never written one of these. Thoughts?


E-mail LSAC about the situation. Wait for a reply in which they will say they will count all your grades. Win?

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 pm

I'm not a flame..... and yes, one of the two schools I attended during my senior year and the other I took the year before. I raised the same arguments I have seen:

1) Ok, can i pick the eight schools that count?

2) This is not listed anywhere on your site and this decision will negatively impact my chances of being admitted

3) This is not a true reflection of my full undergraduate work.


I really need some help here. I was so pissed earlier I could not type. The woman at LSAC told me she did "all she could do - and even went above and beyond by sending it to her supervisor" Something just is not adding up!

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Ty Webb
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Ty Webb » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:33 pm

I think you're overvaluing the difference between a 3.011 and a 2.93. Don't think it's going to make much a difference, TBQH.

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Knock
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Knock » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:34 pm

Ty Webb wrote:I think you're overvaluing the difference between a 3.011 and a 2.93. Don't think it's going to make much a difference, TBQH.


While in many cases I agree, some schools have a hard floor at 3.0.

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:36 pm

I disagree. A 3.011 puts me much closer to the 25th perc. at many schools whereas a 2.93 doesn't. Also, this is beside the point - I want everything I have done to be figured in. Period.

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Unitas
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Unitas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:38 pm

NoGoodDeed wrote:I'm not a flame..... and yes, one of the two schools I attended during my senior year and the other I took the year before. I raised the same arguments I have seen:

1) Ok, can i pick the eight schools that count?

2) This is not listed anywhere on your site and this decision will negatively impact my chances of being admitted

3) This is not a true reflection of my full undergraduate work.


I really need some help here. I was so pissed earlier I could not type. The woman at LSAC told me she did "all she could do - and even went above and beyond by sending it to her supervisor" Something just is not adding up!


Explain the situation in an e-mail to them. See what they say in writing.

No exceptions listed here:
http://www.lsac.org/Policies/transcript ... zation.asp
Last edited by Unitas on Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:38 pm

OK............

I need some solutions. I was told at LSAT that they could not do anything further. Does anyone have a name, #, something at LSAC? This just does not seem correct. I mean, we are not talking graduate courses here - these are undergad grades that are being omitted from THEIR final GPA tally.

THOUGHTS?

03121202698008
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby 03121202698008 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:38 pm

Knockglock wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:I think you're overvaluing the difference between a 3.011 and a 2.93. Don't think it's going to make much a difference, TBQH.


While in many cases I agree, some schools have a hard floor at 3.0.

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:22 pm

I called LSAT:

Here is the verdict I was given (and I’m taking the time to type this to prevent other unwary victims)

LSAT only summarizes a maximum of 8 transcripts. Apparently, being governed by the law schools themselves, the law schools asked this to be the policy.

Specifically, 8 transcripts are selected (those of which contain the biggest amounts of your undergrad work). The schools you took 1 or 2 classes at – may not be summarized if exceeding 8 schools (lessening my GPA in this case) but will be sent in addition to the report.

So, in a nutshell, I am now a 2.93 student with two transcripts sitting off to the side that they will need to look at –or- in my thinking, will need to calculate in to get my correct GPA because LSAT (who was instructed by them) would not.

This morning I had a 3.01 (not great, but I worked my ass off to get it there) and by the time I went to sip my coffee I was at a 2.93 – and have spent the rest of the day (setting aside LSAT prep for October) to understand the flawed logic in this whole mess.

I’m pissed – and feel this practice to be unfair. I hope this helps any of you who were unaware of this. :-(

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Knock
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Knock » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:25 pm

NoGoodDeed wrote:I called LSAT:

Here is the verdict I was given (and I’m taking the time to type this to prevent other unwary victims)

LSAT only summarizes a maximum of 8 transcripts. Apparently, being governed by the law schools themselves, the law schools asked this to be the policy.

Specifically, 8 transcripts are selected (those of which contain the biggest amounts of your undergrad work). The schools you took 1 or 2 classes at – may not be summarized if exceeding 8 schools (lessening my GPA in this case) but will be sent in addition to the report.

So, in a nutshell, I am now a 2.93 student with two transcripts sitting off to the side that they will need to look at –or- in my thinking, will need to calculate in to get my correct GPA because LSAT (who was instructed by them) would not.

This morning I had a 3.01 (not great, but I worked my ass off to get it there) and by the time I went to sip my coffee I was at a 2.93 – and have spent the rest of the day (setting aside LSAT prep for October) to understand the flawed logic in this whole mess.

I’m pissed – and feel this practice to be unfair. I hope this helps any of you who were unaware of this. :-(


Sorry to hear that man. I don't know if you've taken the LSAT yet, but that undoubtedly will be the most important piece of your application by far. Study hard, kill the LSAT, I think you have good work experience since you implied you've been out of UG for a while, and apply broadly. Good luck.

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:28 pm

I appreciate the positive mojo, knockglock.

sumus romani
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:31 pm

I'm sure this has come up at LSAC in the past with other applicants. You can tell by LSAC's complete BS response about the law schools only allowing 8 as a max (as though there was a universal consensus on 8 as opposed to 10). Well, write the addendum and crush the LSAT! Good luck.

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CG614
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby CG614 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:32 pm

why has nobody called dude out for repeatedly calling LSAC - LSAT?

NoGoodDeed
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby NoGoodDeed » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:39 pm

The logic was so flawed that I must admit I had some fun making statements like "You're not offering potential law schools an accurate picture of the full body of my academic work" and "This has never come up before?" Response: No one has argued it before. My response " So your telling me there could be countless victims of an incorrect GPA?" :)

Finally, I asked her to put this all in writing - because the logic seemed so flawed that I wanted to send her letter as my addendum. She got flustered and asked what she thought I should write? She responded, "I can't give you advice." I said, ok , let me re-phrase that - you just suggested I write an addendum so could you further your suggestion by telling me, since you are under the employ of the law schools themselves, what points I need to ensure to make in my addendum? Flustered again.

But, overall.....I was pissed. I mean - if you dont want me, dont accept me. I'm cool with that but I don't want to get dinged without them seeing the full body of my work. :(

My bad CG614 - LSAC - NOT LSAT (which I have been studying for 4 months so cut me some slack ) :)

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Unitas
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Re: Bent over by LSAC today!!! I NEED YOUR HELP

Postby Unitas » Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:43 pm

NoGoodDeed wrote:The logic was so flawed that I must admit I had some fun making statements like "You're not offering potential law schools an accurate picture of the full body of my academic work" and "This has never come up before?" Response: No one has argued it before. My response " So your telling me there could be countless victims of an incorrect GPA?" :)

Finally, I asked her to put this all in writing - because the logic seemed so flawed that I wanted to send her letter as my addendum. She got flustered and asked what she thought I should write? She responded, "I can't give you advice." I said, ok , let me re-phrase that - you just suggested I write an addendum so could you further your suggestion by telling me, since you are under the employ of the law schools themselves, what points I need to ensure to make in my addendum? Flustered again.

But, overall.....I was pissed. I mean - if you dont want me, dont accept me. I'm cool with that but I don't want to get dinged without them seeing the full body of my work. :(

My bad CG614 - LSAC - NOT LSAT (which I have been studying for 4 months so cut me some slack ) :)


Your LSAT matters more than gpa but sub 3.0 gpas are hard to spin. Get a high score and don't stress about this. However:

Send them an e-mail and get this "policy" of not counting past 8 schools in writing. If they do that, which I doubt they will, approach an adcomm for a LS (Dean Pless is on TLS; send him a PM maybe) to ask about this policy.




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