A bird in the hand...?

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lawschoollll
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A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:30 am

I am applying for the c/o 2014, so starting next fall. However, I also applied this past year, and withdrew all acceptances/waitlists when I figured out that I didn't want to go until Fall 2011 - except one. For better or worse, I just got into that one waitlist, one of MVP, which offered me deferred admission, which, I thought, was exactly what I wanted.

However, the school cannot let me know about financial aid one way or the other, so this is basically like being accepted ED - binding, without $ (assumed). I've been reading the "School OCI Data" thread pretty religiously, and it seems like CCN has been outplacing MVP even more substantially than their differences in ranking would suggest. I am by no means a prestige whore, but I do want a job that will let me pay back my suffocating loans in a feasible amount of time.

My stats are not great for CCN, and really nothing that special even for MVP - 3.5x/172. Before getting off this WL, my plan was to ED to NYU and apply RD to Chicago, neither of which I applied to last cycle (missed deadlines - Feb. LSAT). I've looked on LSN, and there have been people who have gotten in with my stats. I don't have a realistic shot at Columbia. The problem is, since I'm really a marginal candidate for any of CCN, there is a very good shot I would get shut out. Then I'm right back where I started, most likely minus the MVP school that I will have shot down this summer, which also happens to be my preferred MVP school.

I've thought about this from every angle but am still going back and forth, and have to make a decision early this week. Am I retarded for wanting to re-apply and shoot for CCN? For what it's worth, I think N would be worth the marginal upgrade in SA chances because I do want to work in NYC.

jnorsky
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby jnorsky » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:36 am

Do what you feel is right, but honestly I really doubt CCN is outplacing MVP by amounts that are much different than they usually are, which seem a little marginal. if you are gunning for NYC big law, and you didnt get into Penn, ED to NYU is probably a good choice. In terms of career prospects, the difference between CCN, MVP, DN are a lot smaller than people think here on this board and i wouldn't use what people say here as evidence that you are doing the right / wrong thing. But for NYC, Columbia and NYU are a step up from the rest.

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thecilent
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby thecilent » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:39 am

lawschoollll wrote:I am applying for the c/o 2014, so starting next fall. However, I also applied this past year, and withdrew all acceptances/waitlists when I figured out that I didn't want to go until Fall 2011 - except one. For better or worse, I just got into that one waitlist, one of MVP, which offered me deferred admission, which, I thought, was exactly what I wanted.

However, the school cannot let me know about financial aid one way or the other, so this is basically like being accepted ED - binding, without $ (assumed). I've been reading the "School OCI Data" thread pretty religiously, and it seems like CCN has been outplacing MVP even more substantially than their differences in ranking would suggest. I am by no means a prestige whore, but I do want a job that will let me pay back my suffocating loans in a feasible amount of time.

My stats are not great for CCN, and really nothing that special even for MVP - 3.5x/172. Before getting off this WL, my plan was to ED to NYU and apply RD to Chicago, neither of which I applied to last cycle (missed deadlines - Feb. LSAT). I've looked on LSN, and there have been people who have gotten in with my stats. I don't have a realistic shot at Columbia. The problem is, since I'm really a marginal candidate for any of CCN, there is a very good shot I would get shut out. Then I'm right back where I started, most likely minus the MVP school that I will have shot down this summer, which also happens to be my preferred MVP school.

I've thought about this from every angle but am still going back and forth, and have to make a decision early this week. Am I retarded for wanting to re-apply and shoot for CCN? For what it's worth, I think N would be worth the marginal upgrade in SA chances because I do want to work in NYC.


You def do not want to look back and have regrets about not trying to get CCN. Esp if you're set to work in NY, I would re-apply this cycle and use your ED for Nyu. You def have a chance at it with ED.

And if you did anything productive with your year off, you should again get accepted to the schools that you did last cycle..

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Teoeo
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby Teoeo » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:43 am

May I ask which school it was?

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:50 am

Do what you feel is right, but honestly I really doubt CCN is outplacing MVP by amounts that are much different than they usually are, which seem a little marginal. if you are gunning for NYC big law, and you didnt get into Penn, ED to NYU is probably a good choice. In terms of career prospects, the difference between CCN, MVP, DN are a lot smaller than people think here on this board and i wouldn't use what people say here as evidence that you are doing the right / wrong thing. But for NYC, Columbia and NYU are a step up from the rest.


Reading the school OCI data thread, people seem to be coming to the consensus that MVP are at about 50% while CCN are at about 69-70%. If true, that's a pretty scary dropoff.


You def do not want to look back and have regrets about not trying to get CCN. Esp if you're set to work in NY, I would re-apply this cycle and use your ED for Nyu. You def have a chance at it with ED.

And if you did anything productive with your year off, you should again get accepted to the schools that you did last cycle..


Re: being productive: I am a paralegal, getting pretty decent litigation experience that I can write a good PS about. Nothing special, but not smoking weed in my mom's basement. I'm worried that the school will think I spurned them by not taking this current offer, with the thinking being, "well, if he didn't want us in July, what would have changed by September?" And they could just WL me again to protect their yield.

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thecilent
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby thecilent » Mon Jul 26, 2010 9:57 am

lawschoollll wrote:
Do what you feel is right, but honestly I really doubt CCN is outplacing MVP by amounts that are much different than they usually are, which seem a little marginal. if you are gunning for NYC big law, and you didnt get into Penn, ED to NYU is probably a good choice. In terms of career prospects, the difference between CCN, MVP, DN are a lot smaller than people think here on this board and i wouldn't use what people say here as evidence that you are doing the right / wrong thing. But for NYC, Columbia and NYU are a step up from the rest.


Reading the school OCI data thread, people seem to be coming to the consensus that MVP are at about 50% while CCN are at about 69-70%. If true, that's a pretty scary dropoff.


You def do not want to look back and have regrets about not trying to get CCN. Esp if you're set to work in NY, I would re-apply this cycle and use your ED for Nyu. You def have a chance at it with ED.

And if you did anything productive with your year off, you should again get accepted to the schools that you did last cycle..


Re: being productive: I am a paralegal, getting pretty decent litigation experience that I can write a good PS about. Nothing special, but not smoking weed in my mom's basement. I'm worried that the school will think I spurned them by not taking this current offer, with the thinking being, "well, if he didn't want us in July, what would have changed by September?" And they could just WL me again to protect their yield.


I'm not even sure they will remember you. But if you write a ps on your experience over the last year and how you are now ready for law school, I don't think you will be penalized even if they do remember you.

I think it's a win-win for reapplying and taking a shot at CCN.

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:36 am

I hope you're right that they don't remember me, but since they've extended these offers to so few people from what I can tell, I'm not sure. My big fear is that I'll decline this offer and end up worse than where I started.

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dominkay
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby dominkay » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:54 am

I don't think you're retarded for wanting to try to shoot for CCN. But I think it really depends on how strong your preference is for that particular MVP school. Would you (for example) be nearly as happy to attend V or M as you would P, but deliriously happy to attend N? Then it seems logical to try for N.

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:01 am

dominkay wrote:I don't think you're retarded for wanting to try to shoot for CCN. But I think it really depends on how strong your preference is for that particular MVP school. Would you (for example) be nearly as happy to attend V or M as you would P, but deliriously happy to attend N? Then it seems logical to try for N.

I would say,

N


Chi
P
V

M

So yea, I guess so. N would put me closest to family, SO, etc., and, assuming Columbia is impossible, would be my first choice in a vacuum (i.e. no personal issues involved) over Chicago because of Chi's location/social reputation.

Edit because this really makes no sense without disclosing which MVP school this is even about. It's Penn.

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romothesavior
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:10 am

Reapply, if for no other reason than reapplying may help you get some scholly money from MVP. You are probably WL at CC (maybe in at UChi) and you're borderline for N. Put together a great application and you may land it. It seems like a realistic reach.
Last edited by romothesavior on Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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dominkay
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby dominkay » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:11 am

lawschoollll wrote:
dominkay wrote:I don't think you're retarded for wanting to try to shoot for CCN. But I think it really depends on how strong your preference is for that particular MVP school. Would you (for example) be nearly as happy to attend V or M as you would P, but deliriously happy to attend N? Then it seems logical to try for N.

I would say,

N


Chi
P
V

M

So yea, I guess so. N would put me closest to family, SO, etc., and, assuming Columbia is impossible, would be my first choice in a vacuum (i.e. no personal issues involved) over Chicago because of Chi's location/social reputation.

Edit because this really makes no sense without disclosing which MVP school this is even about. It's Penn.


Woo, I guessed right! ;)

Yeah, I think you should ED to NYU. If NYU dings you, you can try to double-dip and ED UVA (with their extended deadline). But it probably won't be necessary. Since you got into Penn with a Feb LSAT/late app, I imagine that if you apply early this time, you have a good chance at getting into a peer school.

Tell Penn you can't commit without financial aid info; can they really fault you for that?

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:15 am

dominkay wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
dominkay wrote:I don't think you're retarded for wanting to try to shoot for CCN. But I think it really depends on how strong your preference is for that particular MVP school. Would you (for example) be nearly as happy to attend V or M as you would P, but deliriously happy to attend N? Then it seems logical to try for N.

I would say,

N


Chi
P
V

M

So yea, I guess so. N would put me closest to family, SO, etc., and, assuming Columbia is impossible, would be my first choice in a vacuum (i.e. no personal issues involved) over Chicago because of Chi's location/social reputation.

Edit because this really makes no sense without disclosing which MVP school this is even about. It's Penn.


Woo, I guessed right! ;)

Yeah, I think you should ED to NYU. If NYU dings you, you can try to double-dip and ED UVA (with their extended deadline). But it probably won't be necessary. Since you got into Penn with a Feb LSAT/late app, I imagine that if you apply early this time, you have a good chance at getting into a peer school.

Tell Penn you can't commit without financial aid info; can they really fault you for that?

I know, right? I don't think I'm being unreasonable, and I hope they don't hold it against me if I explain my situation tactfully. Thanks guys.

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MiamiUG
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby MiamiUG » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:17 am

It is as you wish it to be - sage

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:22 am

I say reapply. If nothing else, you get your shot at C and N, and if it appears you're striking out you can ED at UVA at any point; they'll probably take someone with your scores and you'd be in no worse situation than before (binding, at one of MVP, not necessarily getting any money). Tough call, obviously there's some risk, but I think it'd be worth it.

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:27 am

JusticeHarlan wrote:I say reapply. If nothing else, you get your shot at C and N, and if it appears you're striking out you can ED at UVA at any point; they'll probably take someone with your scores and you'd be in no worse situation than before (binding, at one of MVP, not necessarily getting any money). Tough call, obviously there's some risk, but I think it'd be worth it.

Okay yea question about that: Does UVA like high LSAT splitters? I know they love reverse splitters especially for ED, but I didn't know if they took people like me in the same numbers.

Also, are they definitely doing what they did last year w/r/t the extension of the ED program?

Thanks. You guys are a pretty great resource.

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romothesavior
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:28 am

How many times did you take the LSAT?

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:32 am

romothesavior wrote:How many times did you take the LSAT?

Good question. 3. I know that N says they average, but is that really true? If so then obviously I'd be out.

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romothesavior
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:32 am

lawschoollll wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How many times did you take the LSAT?

Good question. 3. I know that N says they average, but is that really true? If so then obviously I'd be out.


Other LSAT scores?

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:35 am

romothesavior wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How many times did you take the LSAT?

Good question. 3. I know that N says they average, but is that really true? If so then obviously I'd be out.


Other LSAT scores?

164 twice.

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romothesavior
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:36 am

lawschoollll wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How many times did you take the LSAT?

Good question. 3. I know that N says they average, but is that really true? If so then obviously I'd be out.


Other LSAT scores?

164 twice.


CCN is likely a no go. You are on the borderline already, and even if they don't average, it could serve as a tiebreaker.

Tough call. Any chance you could get your GPA up or have you graduated?

rundoxierun
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:38 am

Ehh I think this is the type of question that TLS is useless for, you gotta decide this one for yourself. Fwiw, no one has any official data for Penn or UVA so dont just assume they are the same as Michigan. Im sure Penn still places well in NYC.

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:44 am

romothesavior wrote:CCN is likely a no go. You are on the borderline already, and even if they don't average, it could serve as a tiebreaker.

Tough call. Any chance you could get your GPA up or have you graduated?

Yea I had a feeling you'd say that. Graduated a few years ago.

lawschoollll
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby lawschoollll » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:47 am

Is there a way to check the # of times someone has taken the LSAT on LSN?

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:59 am

lawschoollll wrote:
JusticeHarlan wrote:I say reapply. If nothing else, you get your shot at C and N, and if it appears you're striking out you can ED at UVA at any point; they'll probably take someone with your scores and you'd be in no worse situation than before (binding, at one of MVP, not necessarily getting any money). Tough call, obviously there's some risk, but I think it'd be worth it.

Okay yea question about that: Does UVA like high LSAT splitters? I know they love reverse splitters especially for ED, but I didn't know if they took people like me in the same numbers.

Also, are they definitely doing what they did last year w/r/t the extension of the ED program?

Thanks. You guys are a pretty great resource.

Checking out their LSN, it seems they took a few people with scores like 170/3.0 or 171/3.24 who applied ED. Dunno if those are outliers or not.

Also, I'm not sure if they'll be doing the same ED gimmick again this year. I'd imagine they would, as it helps them keep their medians high and their acceptance rate low, but who knows. Might be worth emailing them?

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dominkay
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Re: A bird in the hand...?

Postby dominkay » Mon Jul 26, 2010 12:21 pm

lawschoollll wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:
romothesavior wrote:How many times did you take the LSAT?

Good question. 3. I know that N says they average, but is that really true? If so then obviously I'd be out.


Other LSAT scores?

164 twice.


I am changing my answer. Go to Penn. Maybe you could write an addendum explaining away one lower score, but two? At a school that averages? I think you're out.




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