Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

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flyingpanda
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby flyingpanda » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:52 am

Nola wrote:I am just like you. I am currently seeking to gain entrance into law school. I have taken the LSAT and I am working on the rest of my application. One thing I have been reading constantly on these forums is "If you don't get into a top 14 school, don't go to law school." or some similar nonsense about it not being worth it/your life is over.

I wanted to take a second to say that I personally think this is ridiculous. A coworker of mine (who is a lawyer) told me that she has tons of friends who graduated law school with her at various schools one of which is a tier one the rest which are tier 3 that are leading successful careers in the field of law. Are they Supreme Court nominees? No. Are they running for elected office? No. Did they retire at 32 because they made so much money practicing law? Again. Negative.

For those of you who aspire to these pursuits, maybe you have reason to be so uptight about getting into law school. However, I would like to suggest to you that these things are possible without a top 14 education.

We are all very lucky to even be thinking about applying to law school. Freaking out about which law school you are going to attend is a great problem to have. I live in New Orleans. I can tell you that there are some people out there who can't even fathom attending college much less law school.

Let us put this process in perspective. We are all lucky to be here and we should think of it that way.

Congratulations to all of you. You parents should be proud
.

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PDaddy
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:29 am

Integrity wrote:I agree with the sentiment of the post. Less that 1% of the world receives a college education, and I can only imagine how miniscule the percentage is for law students.

Unfortunately, some posters believe grandiloquent protestations of elitism, cynicism, and sarcasm reflect well on their intellect. Lots of people on TLS have the brains, but not the hearts (or looks either, I'd imagine).


Except for Pdaddy of course. :wink:

juleesong
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby juleesong » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:36 am

capitalacq wrote:this thread is why we need to end federal guaranteed/subsidized loans


Can someone explain this?

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PDaddy
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:37 am

Cilent21 wrote:ITT: People gain a false sense of security.

I'm all for the law school investment, but I don't think enough people understand it isn't enough to just get into a school; you really have to bust your ass once you're in.

I just recently met two CLS grads who were around median and are still looking for jobs. That's why I'm saying yeah it's cool you can get into a school (even a good one), but it means nothing if you don't perform well.


Does it ever occur to anyone that many of these people w/o jobs who claim to be "median" are L-Y-I-N-G? Don't get me twisted, I do believe things are harder for graduates all around and at every level. But don't tell me that a median CLS grad can't get a good paying law job because there are still lots of good paying jobs out there. When I hear those stories, I hear 1) LIAR(S) or 2) "lazy, entitled brat(s) expected [a] job(s) to just drop into his/her/their lap(s)"...EOS.

ogurty
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby ogurty » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:40 am

Integrity wrote:I agree with the sentiment of the post. Less that 1% of the world receives a college education, and I can only imagine how miniscule the percentage is for law students.


No.

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PDaddy
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby PDaddy » Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:50 am

Matthies wrote:
capitalacq wrote:this thread is why we need to end federal guaranteed/subsidized loans


Damn right, all those freaking social climbing poors filling up good law schools. Know your class people, if you can't pay cash then you should not be going to law school and mingling with us blue-bloods. We gave you free k-12 education, now go get a job in the fields where you belong.


:lol:

rando
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby rando » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:19 am

juleesong wrote:
capitalacq wrote:this thread is why we need to end federal guaranteed/subsidized loans


Can someone explain this?


capital is implying that OP is dumb, probably going to a lower ranked school, will not get a job upon graduation, and will have taken out a boatload of fed. subsidized loans. Consequently capital argues that we should end these types of loans so as to not have taxpayers support the above-mentioned types of incoming law students.

Hence Matthies' sarcasm, adding the next logical step to capital's pretentious viewpoint.

rando
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby rando » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:24 am

PDaddy wrote:
Cilent21 wrote:ITT: People gain a false sense of security.

I'm all for the law school investment, but I don't think enough people understand it isn't enough to just get into a school; you really have to bust your ass once you're in.

I just recently met two CLS grads who were around median and are still looking for jobs. That's why I'm saying yeah it's cool you can get into a school (even a good one), but it means nothing if you don't perform well.


Does it ever occur to anyone that many of these people w/o jobs who claim to be "median" are L-Y-I-N-G? Don't get me twisted, I do believe things are harder for graduates all around and at every level. But don't tell me that a median CLS grad can't get a good paying law job because there are still lots of good paying jobs out there. When I hear those stories, I hear 1) LIAR(S) or 2) "lazy, entitled brat(s) expected [a] job(s) to just drop into his/her/their lap(s)"...EOS.


I agree that many of the sob stories mentioned by people at "median" are exaggerations. I think it is hard for someone with poor law school performance to face up to the fact that they really are at the bottom of the class, which is likely the reason for their lack of employment.

Nonetheless, you are sorely underestimating how bad the market actually is right now. There are not "lots of good paying jobs out there." There are very few actually, when you take into consideration the number of law students graduating each year and the fact we saw another drop in law jobs last month.

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thecilent
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby thecilent » Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:02 pm

rando wrote:
PDaddy wrote:
Cilent21 wrote:ITT: People gain a false sense of security.

I'm all for the law school investment, but I don't think enough people understand it isn't enough to just get into a school; you really have to bust your ass once you're in.

I just recently met two CLS grads who were around median and are still looking for jobs. That's why I'm saying yeah it's cool you can get into a school (even a good one), but it means nothing if you don't perform well.


Does it ever occur to anyone that many of these people w/o jobs who claim to be "median" are L-Y-I-N-G? Don't get me twisted, I do believe things are harder for graduates all around and at every level. But don't tell me that a median CLS grad can't get a good paying law job because there are still lots of good paying jobs out there. When I hear those stories, I hear 1) LIAR(S) or 2) "lazy, entitled brat(s) expected [a] job(s) to just drop into his/her/their lap(s)"...EOS.


I agree that many of the sob stories mentioned by people at "median" are exaggerations. I think it is hard for someone with poor law school performance to face up to the fact that they really are at the bottom of the class, which is likely the reason for their lack of employment.

Nonetheless, you are sorely underestimating how bad the market actually is right now. There are not "lots of good paying jobs out there." There are very few actually, when you take into consideration the number of law students graduating each year and the fact we saw another drop in law jobs last month.

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rayiner
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:30 pm

Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.

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Matthies
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Matthies » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:35 pm

rayiner wrote:
Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


Seriously the anxiety/stress never ends in this profession:
LSAT
Wait for LSAT score
Apply to schools
Wait for schools to respond
1st semester 1L
Wait for grades
2nd Semter 1L move up/down
Transfer
Not transfer
LR competition
2L OCI
3L (ok this is not really stressful until last semester)
Barr application
Bar study
Job or no job
Bar results
First emeo, case, time you actually meet a real lawyer
Every time you're in front of a judge
paying your loans
Then, at 45 you stoke out and everything's good.

sumus romani
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby sumus romani » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:41 pm

What am I signing up for?

Hey-O
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Hey-O » Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:46 pm

Matthies wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


Seriously the anxiety/stress never ends in this profession:
LSAT
Wait for LSAT score
Apply to schools
Wait for schools to respond
1st semester 1L
Wait for grades
2nd Semter 1L move up/down
Transfer
Not transfer
LR competition
2L OCI
3L (ok this is not really stressful until last semester)
Barr application
Bar study
Job or no job
Bar results
First emeo, case, time you actually meet a real lawyer
Every time you're in front of a judge
paying your loans
Then, at 45 you stoke out and everything's good.


Great post

Nola
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Nola » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:25 pm

rayiner wrote:
Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


If you are in law school now, why are you on Top Law Schools?

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Teoeo
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Teoeo » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:28 pm

Nola wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


If you are in law school now, why are you on Top Law Schools?


A big part of this website is dedicated to helping current students, I don't understand your point.

Nola
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Nola » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:31 pm

A big part of this website is dedicated to helping current students, I don't understand your point.[/quote]

It was just a question. I was curious. No other motive.

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rayiner
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby rayiner » Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:35 pm

Nola wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


If you are in law school now, why are you on Top Law Schools?


Because TLS has forums for law students (aptly named I might add) as well as for legal employment. Also because it is useful for 0Ls to have some insight into what goes on at law schools.

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nealric
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby nealric » Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:01 pm

I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


Seconded.

I just graduated from a T14, and while most of the people I know have something, and all have a plan, there is high anxiety all around. The people with biglaw offers are worried about getting re-deferred or having their offer rescinded. The people in public interest are mostly on 1-year fellowships, and still have permanent jobs to look for. The ones without offers are worrying about that. Heck, even the people going to the feds are worried about failing the bar and getting their offers yanked.

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solotee
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby solotee » Tue Jul 06, 2010 6:18 pm

--ImageRemoved--

ajmanyjah
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby ajmanyjah » Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:27 pm

nealric wrote:
I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


Seconded.

I just graduated from a T14, and while most of the people I know have something, and all have a plan, there is high anxiety all around. The people with biglaw offers are worried about getting re-deferred or having their offer rescinded. The people in public interest are mostly on 1-year fellowships, and still have permanent jobs to look for. The ones without offers are worrying about that. Heck, even the people going to the feds are worried about failing the bar and getting their offers yanked.


Nothing in life is a meal ticket, and if it is, it is usually elitist institutions that reduce social mobility and work against meritocracy, and hence, should be abolished.

Same reason I think that law school should not be a requirement for the bar. This isn't accounting, dentistry, or a medical field.

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Teoeo
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Teoeo » Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:39 am

@ Nola - Ok, sorry for being combative, I read your comment as sarcasm.

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Cleareyes
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Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Cleareyes » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:32 am

Everyone in a position to be considering law school is, on a global scale, pretty darn lucky.

That doesn't mean that attending law school is a good choice for all of them, or even not a very very bad choice.

The official school line at Harvard appears to be "Don't panic, but you should be concerned about the job situation and treat it very very seriously." Unless you're going to Yale I don't see how you can reasonably have an outlook significantly more confident than that. Law school does work out for many people, and going to law school, even a lower ranked law school, is not always a mistake, but if you're waltzing in thinking everything will work itself out, you're setting yourself up for a potentially very unpleasant situation involving a ton of debt and not a lot of job prospects.

Matthies keeps saying that you make your own luck as a lawyer. People who view getting into a 'top law school' as a big achievement run the risk of complacency. Getting into law school is not an achievement. Doing well in law school isn't really an achievement. They're just things that put you in a position to accomplish your goals. They're opportunities.

And they come with costs and the risk of failure.

Save the backpatting for the day you send in your last check to Sallie Mae.

awesomepossum
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Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 12:49 am

Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:54 am

Matthies wrote:
rayiner wrote:
Nola wrote:
vandalvideo wrote:This would be a great post if this wasn't the Top Law School Forums.


I am not going to say that my post is great. I will say however, that this is exactly the crowd that needs to hear this. I have a feeling that once we get admitted to law school and prepare to graduate all of this anxiety will just be a distant memory that we can all joke about at graduation.


I go to a T14, and know people just graduated whose anxiety isn't a distant memory. Rather, it's real and present and concerns how they will pay back $200k in loans without a job.


Seriously the anxiety/stress never ends in this profession:
LSAT
Wait for LSAT score
Apply to schools
Wait for schools to respond
1st semester 1L
Wait for grades
2nd Semter 1L move up/down
Transfer
Not transfer
LR competition
2L OCI
3L (ok this is not really stressful until last semester)
Barr application
Bar study
Job or no job
Bar results
First emeo, case, time you actually meet a real lawyer
Every time you're in front of a judge
paying your loans
Then, at 45 you stoke out and everything's good.





you're missing a few:

every time you have an annual review
when you're up for partner
when you're looking for a different job
when you're looking for a different job
when you're looking for a different job
when you're looking at how fucking obese you've become
when you're contemplating a hooker because you're now old, divorced and fucking obese
when you're on your deathbed alone
when they laugh in your face at the pearly gates



the law is awesome!

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Cleareyes
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Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:59 pm

Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby Cleareyes » Wed Jul 07, 2010 7:58 am

awesomepossum wrote:
when you're on your deathbed alone


Who cuddles on their deathbed?

awesomepossum
Posts: 928
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 12:49 am

Re: Let's Put Law School In Perspective - We Should All Be Proud

Postby awesomepossum » Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:28 am

Cleareyes wrote:
awesomepossum wrote:
when you're on your deathbed alone


Who cuddles on their deathbed?


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