I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

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DoubleChecks
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:57 am

dont think this was asked, and if so, it was not responded to?

OP, what market are you in??

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:58 am

romothesavior wrote:How would he possibly be making less in 5 years? Disbarred perhaps?



Hence my questioning his ability.

dimreturns
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby dimreturns » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:58 am

EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
ze2151 wrote:If everything you wrote here is the God's honest truth, I will run around the city of Atlanta stark naked. Do you view yourself as some sort of message board saint, here to warn us all of what's to come? What's your angle? That's what I always wonder. What's in it for these kamikaze posters?

If you're only speaking to people who are expecting 100k + salaries straight out of school, then fine, blast away. But some of us aren't going to law school simply for a pay day. :roll:


Everything I wrote is the God's honest truth.


Biggest question here is approximately how much do you make???(so we can understand this comment about it not being worth it even w/o debt)


Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.


I make 30% more than you right now, at age 22, directly out of UG. Since you can't even make that with a t14 JD forgive me while I dismiss your advice as non-representative of what a capable job-hunter can achieve.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:00 am

You don't have any debt. If your job sucks so much that 50,000 a year isn't going to cut it why don't you just walk away? Do whatever the fuck you want. You don't owe anything.

Or, better yet, go find a bunch of Political Science and Philosophy majors who graduated this year and tell them you have a 50k starting salary with no debt. I'm sure they'll commiserate and agree that the economy is in ruins.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:00 am

Veyron wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:OP seems like a massive bitch.
That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.


Hey I've got an idea. Get the fffff off of an internet message board trumpeting problems that haven't even occurred for you yet and, you know, do something about it.

No debt...t-14 school...you don't seem smart enough to have gotten a full ride. This leads me to the determination that you're an entitled prick with unreasonable expectations of the world. I'm not far off, am I?


WTF dood, this man has a legitimate report from the trenches and you have to go and shit all over him?

OP, why won't the structural problems be resolved in the midterm?

What is your take on secondary markets?

I want to earn 75k (not in NYC) +. Does MVP (with some $) give me a reasonable expectation (not guarantee) of doing this?


Thanks man. The structural problems won't be resolved because they're based in other intractable problems in the economy. Law degrees are easy to get. Post-college employment sucks. Law is pretty much the default "profession" for those who can't cut it after college. What we have is an over-supply of lawyers. To top it off, now we have to compete with extremely well-trained lawyers in India and South Africa who are being used for LPO.

Secondary markets aren't that great. I did a little tour around nowheresville soliciting my resume and got nowhere. I had connections too.

I don't think 75k is realistic overall, but it depends on your family and where you go to school.

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:00 am

EnriqueL wrote:I barely started my job. I just graduated. The situation is different. The old crocodiles have it good. No denying that. But you can see the ground shifting under your feet.



You should have gone to SMU. I'll be making $120K a year within three years of graduating. I did my USNWR research before deciding to go to law school.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:00 am

DoubleChecks wrote:dont think this was asked, and if so, it was not responded to?

OP, what market are you in??


Big city. Coastal. Not getting more specific.

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NayBoer
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby NayBoer » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:01 am

EnriqueL wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Did you have post-college work experience before going to law school?


Yes. Is this 20 Questions? You looking for the question where I'll say, "No" and then you'll finally get the chance to say, "See, you should have done XYZ."

I can tell you for a fact though that post-college work experience has nothing to do with this. When I see the guys with Federal positions, CoA clerkships, or V100, whether they worked after college does not predict where they end up.
Calm the fuck down. You're the one who came here to educate us, so I assumed questions were allowed. How are we supposed to learn from your example if we don't know much about your situation?

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Grizz
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:01 am

dimreturns wrote:I make 30% more than you right now, at age 22, directly out of UG. Since you can't even make that with a t14 JD forgive me while I dismiss your advice as non-representative of what a capable job-hunter can achieve.


Well congrats to you for your salary and high level of pompous jackassery.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:02 am

dimreturns wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
ze2151 wrote:If everything you wrote here is the God's honest truth, I will run around the city of Atlanta stark naked. Do you view yourself as some sort of message board saint, here to warn us all of what's to come? What's your angle? That's what I always wonder. What's in it for these kamikaze posters?


Biggest question here is approximately how much do you make???(so we can understand this comment about it not being worth it even w/o debt)


Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.


I make 30% more than you right now, at age 22, directly out of UG. Since you can't even make that with a t14 JD forgive me while I dismiss your advice as non-representative of what a capable job-hunter can achieve.


Then don't go to law school. Simple as that. If I were in your place, I would run very, very far away from anything to do with the legal profession. You have it good, bro. Believe me.

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98234872348
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:02 am

So, what you're telling me is that you graduated from GULC (since you said "T14") and that half your class was unemployed.

Jesus. I doubt it's really half of the class, but I do not doubt that a decent amount of 3Ls from GULC are jobless. Which is painful to think about, really.

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MrKappus
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:02 am

EnriqueL wrote:Secondary markets aren't that great. I did a little tour around nowheresville soliciting my resume and got nowhere. I had connections too.

I don't think 75k is realistic overall, but it depends on your family and where you go to school.


Wow, I can't believe firms in places you call "nowheresville" didn't snap you up. you sound like a whiny entitled douche.

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jackalope11
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby jackalope11 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:04 am

rad law wrote:
dimreturns wrote:I make 30% more than you right now, at age 22, directly out of UG. Since you can't even make that with a t14 JD forgive me while I dismiss your advice as non-representative of what a capable job-hunter can achieve.


Well congrats to you for your salary and high level of pompous jackassery.

:lol:

dimreturns
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby dimreturns » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:05 am

jackalope11 wrote:
rad law wrote:
dimreturns wrote:I make 30% more than you right now, at age 22, directly out of UG. Since you can't even make that with a t14 JD forgive me while I dismiss your advice as non-representative of what a capable job-hunter can achieve.


Well congrats to you for your salary and high level of pompous jackassery.

:lol:


Certainly not my finest moment

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:06 am

Just to make this clear, I'm going to let you know right off the bat that I know that the economy sucks. That's true, but that's a cyclical issue. The nosedive in the economy just quickened the inevitable in the legal profession. There were reports here and there about the unsound structure in the legal economy before the crisis hit. Happy days are not coming back for us anytime soon. It's irresponsible to suggest that they are.

jdhonest
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby jdhonest » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:06 am

EnriqueL wrote:
kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.



How much will you be making in 5 years? A lot of people fail to take in to account the long-term salary benefits of a JD.


That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.

It's not at all what you think, kalvano.


Whatcha got ain't nothin new. This economy's hard on people, you can't stop what's coming, it ain't all waiting on you. That's vanity.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:07 am

MrKappus wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Secondary markets aren't that great. I did a little tour around nowheresville soliciting my resume and got nowhere. I had connections too.

I don't think 75k is realistic overall, but it depends on your family and where you go to school.


Wow, I can't believe firms in places you call "nowheresville" didn't snap you up. you sound like a whiny entitled douche.


Why would they hire me if they have no need for me? You're the one who's entitled if you think that doing well in a good school entitled you to a job in nowheresville.

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legalease9
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby legalease9 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:10 am

jackalope11 wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Before anyone asks: T14, above median, got a job that doesn't pay enough in relation to the cost of tuition. No loans. Still pissed. If I had taken on loans, life would be much, much more difficult.



Sincerely,

E.L.


Respectfully, because I appreciate your opinion and taking the time to offer a heartfelt warning, I wanted to take a moment to answer... I think this bolded portion is indicative of the very attitude that is a problem with many students heading LS.

They don't start law school because they could only see themselves as lawyers, or because they had some overwhelming desire to have a career in the service of the law. Rather, they see an opportunity to make a huge salary at the end. In the case where people see this overwhelming profit motive, you're going to have what we have now, an overprovision of law students relative to the market they serve.

I totally agree that one should not take on a debt burden that they will be unlikely to repay... but I think many people are going to LS to become lawyers because it is their dream, rather than making a cost-benefit analysis of what their earning potential will be outside of school. For those of us in this boat, I think that this should be a remider to consider the consequences of acquiring too much debt while in school...


+1000000000! Very well said!

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Alyssa
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Alyssa » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:11 am

I understand both sides here.

Just because OP has no debt doesn't mean spending $200,000 of his own money to get a job that pays $50,000 was worth it. There are better uses for the money IF you're looking to make a quick profit.

This is why my parents are against the whole law school idea. I'm in no way rich or entitled - I've just been out of school long enough to save up enough to pay for school myself. They think with as much cash as I've saved, I should go live on a beach somewhere for a few years, not give my money away to a school.

But, I want to be a lawyer and I'm hopeful that in the long run, it will be a good investment.

(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:12 am

legalease9 wrote:
jackalope11 wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Before anyone asks: T14, above median, got a job that doesn't pay enough in relation to the cost of tuition. No loans. Still pissed. If I had taken on loans, life would be much, much more difficult.



Sincerely,

E.L.


Respectfully, because I appreciate your opinion and taking the time to offer a heartfelt warning, I wanted to take a moment to answer... I think this bolded portion is indicative of the very attitude that is a problem with many students heading LS.

They don't start law school because they could only see themselves as lawyers, or because they had some overwhelming desire to have a career in the service of the law. Rather, they see an opportunity to make a huge salary at the end. In the case where people see this overwhelming profit motive, you're going to have what we have now, an overprovision of law students relative to the market they serve.

I totally agree that one should not take on a debt burden that they will be unlikely to repay... but I think many people are going to LS to become lawyers because it is their dream, rather than making a cost-benefit analysis of what their earning potential will be outside of school. For those of us in this boat, I think that this should be a remider to consider the consequences of acquiring too much debt while in school...


+1000000000! Very well said!


Tell that to the large minority of graduates who don't practice law. :roll:

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romothesavior
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:12 am

mistergoft wrote:So, what you're telling me is that you graduated from GULC (since you said "T14") and that half your class was unemployed.

Jesus. I doubt it's really half of the class, but I do not doubt that a decent amount of 3Ls from GULC are jobless. Which is painful to think about, really.


+1

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MrKappus
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby MrKappus » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:14 am

EnriqueL wrote:Why would they hire me if they have no need for me? You're the one who's entitled if you think that doing well in a good school entitled you to a job in nowheresville.


Dear Short-Bus: Calling secondary markets "nowheresville" makes you entitled.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:14 am

Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:15 am

MrKappus wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Why would they hire me if they have no need for me? You're the one who's entitled if you think that doing well in a good school entitled you to a job in nowheresville.


Dear Short-Bus: Calling secondary markets "nowheresville" makes you entitled.


No it doesn't. It's quicker and easier than mentioning the actual location.

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:16 am

I'm going to stop making annoyingly spaced posts or I'm going to get banned.




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