I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

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EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:58 pm

GATORTIM wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:OP seems legit.

You guys are all acting like a bunch of T3 0Ls who are told "don't go to law school."

They ignore all the logic/experience/advice/blogs.

They don't even consider for a second that what the person is telling them might be right.
Instead they come up with a predetermined outcome (that law school is the right choice) and then try to come up with arguments that justify the decision.

I always thought that T3 students were being stupid when they were repeatedly warned and still wanted to go. I thought, "their silly, I know its their dream, but clearly this won't work out for them." I couldn't understand how they could ignore the logic.

After seeing all the posts in response to OP, I now understand the T3s. I'm thinking to myself (as I'm sure many of you are) "its okay I'm going to be well above median! I'll do extra well. Getting a job won't be a problem for ME- it will be other peoples problem." Denial is an ugly thing.

Lots of irony and hypocrisy in this thread.


dude, the majority of markets - not just legal - are in a tailspin. What blows my mind is people going $80-$100k in debt for a freaking BA/BS degree.


Says the guy who is about to blow $110,000 for a JD. Nah, that couldn't possibly be a stupid idea.

czelede
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby czelede » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:59 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:<<stupid things>>

Wait, what? Who has defended going to TTTs? OP is warning against going T14 with NO DEBT! Not AT ALL the same thing.


Ugh, I agree.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:00 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:<<stupid things>>

Wait, what? Who has defended going to TTTs? OP is warning against going T14 with NO DEBT! Not AT ALL the same thing.


All I can say is that I wouldn't have done it had I known what I know today. No way in hell. You'd have to be crazy or reckless.

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truffleshuffle
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby truffleshuffle » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:00 pm

Nicholasnickynic = Enrique ???

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Unitas
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Unitas » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:00 pm

EnriqueL wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:<<stupid things>>

Wait, what? Who has defended going to TTTs? OP is warning against going T14 with NO DEBT! Not AT ALL the same thing.


All I can say is that I wouldn't have done it had I known what I know today. No way in hell. You'd have to be crazy or reckless.


Quick question; do you know anyone that is doing really well?

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:01 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:Above t14, above median, 50k job.

Do you really need to know more?

He did better than 95% of people that go to law school (above median t14). Yet hes making 50k (I gaurantee that many people who go to a worse school/finish worse off etc picture themselves making more than that). People don't like hearing what he has to say.


Over median T14 isn't a homogeneous group. Half this forum is dedicated to picking apart the different levels within that group and analyzing their career options. Saying he's a part of it doesn't help much.

It's like trying to draft someone for your fantasy football team and the only stats you can get are "starting player in the NFL". Just not that useful.

czelede
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby czelede » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:01 pm

EnriqueL wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:<<stupid things>>

Wait, what? Who has defended going to TTTs? OP is warning against going T14 with NO DEBT! Not AT ALL the same thing.


All I can say is that I wouldn't have done it had I known what I know today. No way in hell. You'd have to be crazy or reckless.


What exactly is so terrible about ending up debt free in a 50k job that makes the decision crazy or reckless?

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Rock Chalk
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:02 pm

EnriqueL wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:<<stupid things>>

Wait, what? Who has defended going to TTTs? OP is warning against going T14 with NO DEBT! Not AT ALL the same thing.


All I can say is that I wouldn't have done it had I known what I know today. No way in hell. You'd have to be crazy or reckless.

EITHER PROVIDE MORE SPECIFIC INFO OR GTFO!

This isn't your thread anymore. We were talking about lunch, human/drug trafficking, and cigarette prices.

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GATORTIM
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:04 pm

EnriqueL wrote:Says the guy who is about to blow $110,000 for a JD. Nah, that couldn't possibly be a stupid idea.


unfortunately you don't know my financial situation....gofkself

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Rock Chalk
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:05 pm

truffleshuffle wrote:Nicholasnickynic = Enrique ???

I wondered the same thing, so I checked post history and it looks like the Nicholas guy is going to Wake Forest.

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98234872348
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby 98234872348 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:07 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
If you include deferrals (which might not translate into jobs because the firms can pull back), then I would say between 10 and 20%, not more


is overly pessimistic, as I've seen no evidence that there has been a >50% decline in BigLaw placement. I'm not arguing that BigLaw placement is guaranteed or even likely for most T14 grads, but I also think it's important to try and be accurate in portrayals of the legal market, and avoid being overly pessimistic as well as overly optimistic.

Obviously I didn't read any of the flame's post, I am not interested in flaming, I am interesting in providing realistic information to potential law school students because it is important.

That being said, even as pessimistic as I am about the recovery of the market, I wouldn't claim that Georgetown was only placing 15% of students in Big Law. That is absurd.

lawschoolgiant
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby lawschoolgiant » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:10 pm

rad law wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:I know it's around the time many will be getting ready to start partying this weekendbe sending the tuition deposits. Please understand that the problems with ED in legal hiringare not cyclical. They are structural. A law degree has become the default post-graduate degree for non-technically trained students. The job situation Losing your mojois a complete catastrophe; and even thejobs women that are available are not worth the three years and $100,000. inevitable humiliation and depression.


179



+1 literally

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GATORTIM
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:13 pm

Image

exitlane
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby exitlane » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:14 pm

The grass is always greener... unfortunately, what appeared to be a really interesting thread has boiled down to that. People really need to practice finding joy in life. In all aspects of life.[/quote]

True. Hence, don't spend $150,000 and three years just because you think your job sucks.[/quote][/quote]

What if your jobless (for more than 6 months), living off food stamps, and depression is starting to sink in about the prospect of being homeless.

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:18 pm

I still have a question.

How in the name of Zeus' butthole is the quote button so hard to use?

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yinz
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby yinz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:19 pm

quote="kalvano"]I still have a question.

How in the name of Zeus' butthole is the quote button so hard to use?[/quotefail]

What do you mean?

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Ty Webb
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Ty Webb » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:21 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:<<stupid things>>

Wait, what? Who has defended going to TTTs? OP is warning against going T14 with NO DEBT! Not AT ALL the same thing.


All I can say is that I wouldn't have done it had I known what I know today. No way in hell. You'd have to be crazy or reckless.

EITHER PROVIDE MORE SPECIFIC INFO OR GTFO!

This isn't your thread anymore. We were talking about lunch, human/drug trafficking, and cigarette prices.


SC cigarette taxes do two things:

1) Actively promote lung cancer/support lung doctors everywhere

2) Handcuff an almost criminally underwhelming state populous by not taking free money that could be used to improve schools for the hicks who choose to live here (and by here, I mean any place that isn't Greenville, Lake Murray, or the area between Beaufort and Garden City Beach).

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:22 pm

yinz wrote:quote="kalvano"]I still have a question.

How in the name of Zeus' butthole is the quote button so hard to use?[/quotefail]

What do you mean?



Image

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Matthies
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Matthies » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:24 pm

Hi I would love to read this post and respond, but i'm too busying to leagl stuff with my TTT JD degree at my legal job I nejoy in a profesion I'm glad to be part of, and its seems, lucky enough for me since I had no clue about it before I went in, not too bad at.

fakemoney
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby fakemoney » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:25 pm

One thing I find about the "Do Not Go to Law School" crowd is that they rarely even attempt to suggest an alternative option for people who want an interesting job that takes some brains. What I've found is that basically most professional schools/endeavors have a strong "DO NOT GO" contingent.

There's a huge "Do Not Get a Ph.D" bunch who gripe about the years it took to complete their dissertation, only to have to scrap and beg for the elusive opportunity of an adjunct position at a community college.

There's a huge "Do Not Get a Teaching Degree" lot who bring up indebted states cutting back jobs at overcrowded schools. And whereas JD's bitterly complain about a getting 30/40K -- for teachers, that's par for the course.

Going to journalism school -- if you think the job prospects of law school are ethereal, forget about it. Free electronic media has pwned print/pay media to the poorhouse.

How about business school and a nice MBA? Didn't think so. Wall Street firms literally toss business school kids out with yesterday's trash.

MD's, like JD's, endlessly whine about student loan debt, but have the added burden of insurance premiums and malpractice suits. I remember a while back hearing Sen. Tom Coburn reflecting on the medical practice, gravely musing about how he would tell his kids not to go to medical school.

How about aviation school? Anyone hear Captain Sullenberger testifying before Congress about the dismal state of the airline industry? The two-job, 7-day-a-week work schedules just to make ends meet? About how he's making half of what he once made?

There are a lot of grim "meat-hook" realities in the world (in Hunter S. Thompson vein) and they're pretty much everywhere you turn. In my opinion, the challenges facing law students are hardly unique, or necessarily more daunting.

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truffleshuffle
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby truffleshuffle » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:28 pm

Ty Webb wrote:
SC cigarette taxes do two things:

1) Actively promote lung cancer/support lung doctors everywhere

2) Handcuff an almost criminally underwhelming state populous by not taking free money that could be used to improve schools for the hicks who choose to live here (and by here, I mean any place that isn't Greenville, Lake Murray, or the area between Beaufort and Garden City Beach).


It's ok to allow an addicting substance that causes lung cancer to be sold, but its wrong to not tax it?

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stratocophic
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby stratocophic » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:30 pm

fakemoney wrote:One thing I find about the "Do Not Go to Law School" crowd is that they rarely even attempt to suggest an alternative option for people who want an interesting job that takes some brains. What I've found is that basically most professional schools/endeavors have a strong "DO NOT GO" contingent.

There's a huge "Do Not Get a Ph.D" bunch who gripe about the years it took to complete their dissertation, only to have to scrap and beg for the elusive opportunity of an adjunct position at a community college.

There's a huge "Do Not Get a Teaching Degree" lot who bring up indebted states cutting back jobs at overcrowded schools. And whereas JD's bitterly complain about a getting 30/40K -- for teachers, that's par for the course.

Going to journalism school -- if you think the job prospects of law school are ethereal, forget about it. Free electronic media has pwned print/pay media to the poorhouse.

How about business school and a nice MBA? Didn't think so. Wall Street firms literally toss business school kids out with yesterday's trash.

MD's, like JD's, endlessly whine about student loan debt, but have the added burden of insurance premiums and malpractice suits. I remember a while back hearing Sen. Tom Coburn reflecting on the medical practice, gravely musing about how he would tell his kids not to go to medical school.

How about aviation school? Anyone hear Captain Sullenberger testifying before Congress about the dismal state of the airline industry? The two-job, 7-day-a-week work schedules just to make ends meet? About how he's making half of what he once made?

There are a lot of grim "meat-hook" realities in the world (in Hunter S. Thompson vein) and they're pretty much everywhere you turn. In my opinion, the challenges facing law students are hardly unique, or necessarily more daunting.
What are you talking about? You should go be an electrician! Every TTT-grad (pun intended!) poster just raves about the profession!

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D. H2Oman
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby D. H2Oman » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:31 pm

Should cigarettes be taxed at the level that produces maximum revenue, or should they be taxed at a super high level that does more to discourage smoking?!?!?! What a debate this will be!

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Rock Chalk
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:34 pm

truffleshuffle wrote:
Ty Webb wrote:
SC cigarette taxes do two things:

1) Actively promote lung cancer/support lung doctors everywhere

2) Handcuff an almost criminally underwhelming state populous by not taking free money that could be used to improve schools for the hicks who choose to live here (and by here, I mean any place that isn't Greenville, Lake Murray, or the area between Beaufort and Garden City Beach).


It's ok to allow an addicting substance that causes lung cancer to be sold, but its wrong to not tax it?

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Replace the "but" with an "and" and you'll likely have agreement.

sumus romani
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby sumus romani » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:34 pm

fakemoney wrote:One thing I find about the "Do Not Go to Law School" crowd is that they rarely even attempt to suggest an alternative option for people who want an interesting job that takes some brains. What I've found is that basically most professional schools/endeavors have a strong "DO NOT GO" contingent.

There's a huge "Do Not Get a Ph.D" bunch who gripe about the years it took to complete their dissertation, only to have to scrap and beg for the elusive opportunity of an adjunct position at a community college.

There's a huge "Do Not Get a Teaching Degree" lot who bring up indebted states cutting back jobs at overcrowded schools. And whereas JD's bitterly complain about a getting 30/40K -- for teachers, that's par for the course.

Going to journalism school -- if you think the job prospects of law school are ethereal, forget about it. Free electronic media has pwned print/pay media to the poorhouse.

How about business school and a nice MBA? Didn't think so. Wall Street firms literally toss business school kids out with yesterday's trash.

MD's, like JD's, endlessly whine about student loan debt, but have the added burden of insurance premiums and malpractice suits. I remember a while back hearing Sen. Tom Coburn reflecting on the medical practice, gravely musing about how he would tell his kids not to go to medical school.

How about aviation school? Anyone hear Captain Sullenberger testifying before Congress about the dismal state of the airline industry? The two-job, 7-day-a-week work schedules just to make ends meet? About how he's making half of what he once made?

There are a lot of grim "meat-hook" realities in the world (in Hunter S. Thompson vein) and they're pretty much everywhere you turn. In my opinion, the challenges facing law students are hardly unique, or necessarily more daunting.



OK, but none of the other options puts one between $150,000 and $200,000 in debt. Undergrad teaching degree costs the same as undergrad degree. Same with aviation (at least at some schools). While PhDs take forever to get, everyone who is sensible gets a tuition waiver and stipend for it (the vast, vast majority do this). With regard to an MBA, that probably is a bad investment too unless one goes to a top school.




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