I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

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Bildungsroman
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:28 pm

Go get some barbecue. Sounds delicious today.

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Grizz
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:29 pm

bk1 wrote:Waterman and I need lunch advice.

Where is it?


I also recommend food stamps.

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bk1
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:29 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:I just learned we're all going to be eating in the soup kitchens in a couple of years so perhaps you should get a head start.


I was seriously considering soup today. I think this was the message I needed to make it the clear choice.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:29 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
mistergoft wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
If you include deferrals (which might not translate into jobs because the firms can pull back), then I would say between 10 and 20%, not more. It could be 25%, but that would definitely be a surprise.


http://pdfserver.amlaw.com/nlj/law%20schools_charts_page12.pdf
Yale, the lowest T14 in terms of BigLaw placement, had 35% of its graduating class hired as NLJ associates last year.

While this chart is useful to disprove OPs point, it might not be useful in the current economy. All of these people did OCI in 2007, before the economic downturn. In addition, this doesn't account for deferrals (or no offers?). Finally, many firms cut their summer associate programs in half in 2009, and have again in 2010 (if not by more than half, or eliminated them all-together). Granted, this may disproportionately affect lower ranked schools and leave the T14 unaffected, but I doubt that theory will prove entirely true. Next year, when the grads that OCIed in 2008 are tallied, we will have a more realistic picture of just how dramatically the economic downturn has affected the hiring of new graduates from top schools.


Of course, those stats are probably more optimistic than 2010 numbers would show. However, EnriqueL's claim that

If you include deferrals (which might not translate into jobs because the firms can pull back), then I would say between 10 and 20%, not more


is overly pessimistic, as I've seen no evidence that there has been a >50% decline in BigLaw placement. I'm not arguing that BigLaw placement is guaranteed or even likely for most T14 grads, but I also think it's important to try and be accurate in portrayals of the legal market, and avoid being overly pessimistic as well as overly optimistic.

EnriqueL wrote:Whatever dude. I've paid my cash, did my three years, and found a job. If you want to act like a smart-alec in front of me because it impresses your fellow 0Ls, then keep it up. You're the one with your money and your career on the line.

If you come out three years later with a temp job and no prospects for advancement and $100,000 in loans to pay back, you'll have only yourself to blame.


And if I do, then, unlike you, I will own up to my responsibility and not try to blame everyone but myself for my own failings.



At my school, those are the figures. Sorry.

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bk1
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:30 pm

rad law wrote:I also recommend food stamps.


Those don't taste very good. I reject your advice.

Jas
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Jas » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:30 pm

mistergoft wrote:
Jas wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:It's really laughable that you think that GeorgeTTTown has anywhere near 40% placement. My school certainly did not. Keep believing the numbers. In fact, I'm hoping that you do go to law school. I just hope that the modest ones who actually listen decide not to go.


Who are you to discredit an entire profession?

How does discrediting a school translate to discrediting a profession..?


No, no: according to Enrique, law school as an idea is lunacy (except MAYBE Yale). This is a sweeping dismissal. He is not even interested in admitting that it might be right for people who really "love" the law. (BTW, what kind of 12-yr-old nazi "loves the law"?)

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:30 pm

bk1 wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:I just learned we're all going to be eating in the soup kitchens in a couple of years so perhaps you should get a head start.


I was seriously considering soup today. I think this was the message I needed to make it the clear choice.


Anything to distract yourself from the reckless and stupid choice you are making. Send your check. Fill up the Dean's pockets. You'll be a great litigator. :roll:

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:31 pm

bk1 wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:I just learned we're all going to be eating in the soup kitchens in a couple of years so perhaps you should get a head start.


I was seriously considering soup today. I think this was the message I needed to make it the clear choice.


Well I'm glad something useful came out of this thread...

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:33 pm

EnriqueL wrote:
bk1 wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:I just learned we're all going to be eating in the soup kitchens in a couple of years so perhaps you should get a head start.


I was seriously considering soup today. I think this was the message I needed to make it the clear choice.


Anything to distract yourself from the reckless and stupid choice you are making. Send your check. Fill up the Dean's pockets. You'll be a great litigator. :roll:


--ImageRemoved--

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:33 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
bk1 wrote:
KibblesAndVick wrote:I just learned we're all going to be eating in the soup kitchens in a couple of years so perhaps you should get a head start.


I was seriously considering soup today. I think this was the message I needed to make it the clear choice.


Anything to distract yourself from the reckless and stupid choice you are making. Send your check. Fill up the Dean's pockets. You'll be a great litigator. :roll:


--ImageRemoved--


Admiral Akbar won't help you when you're filing your pleadings in the real world.

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rayiner
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby rayiner » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:33 pm

EnriqueL wrote:I know it's around the time many will be sending the tuition deposits. Please understand that the problems in legal hiring are not cyclical. They are structural. A law degree has become the default post-graduate degree for non-technically trained students. The job situation is a complete catastrophe; and even the jobs that are available are not worth the three years and $100,000.

You should read and inform yourself. There are many really good resources online. The "scam-blogs", though often ridiculous and hyperbolic, do relay real experiences that people are having.

Before anyone asks: T14, above median, got a job that doesn't pay enough in relation to the cost of tuition. No loans. Still pissed. If I had taken on loans, life would be much, much more difficult.

Ask away. If I don't respond, it is not because I don't want to but because my message is not acceptable for the administrators.

I hope my message gets across. Don't look at the bright side or the dark side. Look at the realistic side of things.

Sincerely,

E.L.


You're employed and have no debt. Did you have a huge opportunity cost? If not, what are you complaining about? You were never worth $160k, so you can't be upset when you miss the bubble that allowed some of your peers to get it.

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truffleshuffle
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby truffleshuffle » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:34 pm

KibblesAndVick wrote:
--ImageRemoved--


Ole Miss really let me down by not allowing this:

Image

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pinkzeppelin
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby pinkzeppelin » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:35 pm

bk1 wrote:
rad law wrote:I also recommend food stamps.


Those don't taste very good. I reject your advice.


But I hear if you have a Yale law degree they're steak flavored. Unlike the OP, I would be excited for Yale for this.
Last edited by pinkzeppelin on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bk1
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:36 pm

EnriqueL wrote:Anything to distract yourself from the reckless and stupid choice you are making horrible drivel that is this thread considering anybody in their right mind already knows this crap and EnriqueL is being incredibly argumentative and hyperbolic among other stupid things.


FTFY.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:37 pm

rayiner wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:I know it's around the time many will be sending the tuition deposits. Please understand that the problems in legal hiring are not cyclical. They are structural. A law degree has become the default post-graduate degree for non-technically trained students. The job situation is a complete catastrophe; and even the jobs that are available are not worth the three years and $100,000.

You should read and inform yourself. There are many really good resources online. The "scam-blogs", though often ridiculous and hyperbolic, do relay real experiences that people are having.

Before anyone asks: T14, above median, got a job that doesn't pay enough in relation to the cost of tuition. No loans. Still pissed. If I had taken on loans, life would be much, much more difficult.

Ask away. If I don't respond, it is not because I don't want to but because my message is not acceptable for the administrators.

I hope my message gets across. Don't look at the bright side or the dark side. Look at the realistic side of things.

Sincerely,

E.L.


You're employed and have no debt. Did you have a huge opportunity cost? If not, what are you complaining about? You were never worth $160k, so you can't be upset when you miss the bubble that allowed some of your peers to get it.


The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...



You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:38 pm

EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...



You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension
.I'm a troll.

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yinz
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby yinz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:39 pm

EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...

You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.


You certainly are persistent; three straight hours of this. Speaking of, why the hell aren't you working and instead are preaching to idealistic brats?
Last edited by yinz on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:39 pm

Rock Chalk wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...



You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension
.I'm a troll.


I'm not a troll. I want people to get their information from grads from good schools who can give you a heads up. You can PM me if you want.

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KibblesAndVick
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby KibblesAndVick » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:39 pm

EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...



You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.


Is this the part where you tell us where you went to law school and where you graduated in your class so we have some useful information upon which to make well thought out decisions? Oh no... no it's not. Just more blanket statements and fearmongering.

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bk1
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby bk1 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:40 pm

EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...



You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.


I was waiting for the plug to the scamblogs and we have finally found it.

But I know what I'm eating for lunch, Waterman still needs advice from good people.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:40 pm

yinz wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...

You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.


You certainly are persistant; three straight hours of this. Speaking of, why the hell aren't you working and instead are preaching to idealistic brats?


Because the thought of people buying into the prestige and hype makes me furious at the law schools for not being honest.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Rock Chalk » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:40 pm

EnriqueL wrote:
Rock Chalk wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...



You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension
.I'm a troll.


I'm not a troll. I want people to get their information from grads from good schools who can give you a heads up. You can PM me if you want.I really am a troll.

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GATORTIM
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby GATORTIM » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:40 pm

EnriqueL wrote:You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.


http://news.malaysia.msn.com/top-stories/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4186050

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Unitas
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Unitas » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:41 pm

EnriqueL wrote:
yinz wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:The schools are bullshitting applicants. My best friends are unemployed and have to pay back over $100,000. The scam-blogs have it right. T14 Paradise, firsttiertoilet, butidideverythingright, lawschoolscam...

You guys have no idea what you're getting yourselves into. It's beyond your comprehension.


You certainly are persistant; three straight hours of this. Speaking of, why the hell aren't you working and instead are preaching to idealistic brats?


Because the thought of people buying into the prestige and hype makes me furious at the law schools for not being honest.


You're about to be a lawyer. If they are that much of a true scam, SUE THEM.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:41 pm

ITT we learn why EnriqueL is really unemployable.

Also, that he needs a hobby.
Last edited by Bildungsroman on Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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