I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:43 am

EnriqueL wrote:Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.



How much will you be making in 5 years? A lot of people fail to take in to account the long-term salary benefits of a JD.
Last edited by kalvano on Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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romothesavior
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:43 am

jackalope11 wrote:It's okay, Romo... You've got plenty of fans too. :lol:


It's okay... rad law and I are on the same team.

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:44 am

romothesavior wrote:
jackalope11 wrote:It's okay, Romo... You've got plenty of fans too. :lol:


It's okay... rad law and I are on the same team.



Rad law is romo's alt.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:44 am

quishiclocus wrote:In other words...

Law School: Still not a Get Rich Quick scheme.

The economy is bad. The economy's going to be bad no matter what you do. Preparing yourself for a career you love is always a good move. Preparing yourself for a career in order to get rich is always a bad move. Can we move on already?

The ones who're in this for the dream of the fancy cars and Manhattan apartments aren't going to listen, and the ones who don't care about that would just kill to be in your shoes of being able to do it without debt.


Nah. Actually I dreamed of working DoJ or FTC. Can't do that now that they have their pick of no-offered or underemployed HYS's. Nice try though.

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NayBoer
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby NayBoer » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:46 am

Did you have post-college work experience before going to law school?

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jackalope11
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby jackalope11 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:46 am

kalvano wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
jackalope11 wrote:It's okay, Romo... You've got plenty of fans too. :lol:


It's okay... rad law and I are on the same team.



Rad law is romo's alt.



Sheesh... and I thought he was padding his posting numbers with only ONE account! :mrgreen:

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:46 am

kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.



How much will you be making in 5 years? A lot of people fail to take in to account the long-term salary benefits of a JD.


That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.

It's not at all what you think, kalvano.

rundoxierun
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:48 am

EnriqueL wrote:
quishiclocus wrote:In other words...

Law School: Still not a Get Rich Quick scheme.

The economy is bad. The economy's going to be bad no matter what you do. Preparing yourself for a career you love is always a good move. Preparing yourself for a career in order to get rich is always a bad move. Can we move on already?

The ones who're in this for the dream of the fancy cars and Manhattan apartments aren't going to listen, and the ones who don't care about that would just kill to be in your shoes of being able to do it without debt.


Nah. Actually I dreamed of working DoJ or FTC. Can't do that now that they have their pick of no-offered or underemployed HYS's. Nice try though.


So for a student looking to grad in 2014 and who will likely have the choice of at least one of HYS plus significant money at T10 schools would you still recommend not going to law school??

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am

NayBoer wrote:Did you have post-college work experience before going to law school?


Yes. Is this 20 Questions? You looking for the question where I'll say, "No" and then you'll finally get the chance to say, "See, you should have done XYZ."

I can tell you for a fact though that post-college work experience has nothing to do with this. When I see the guys with Federal positions, CoA clerkships, or V100, whether they worked after college does not predict where they end up.

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romothesavior
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am

kalvano wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
jackalope11 wrote:It's okay, Romo... You've got plenty of fans too. :lol:


It's okay... rad law and I are on the same team.



Rad law is romo's alt.


I'm a postcount whore. No way I would split my posts.

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Ty Webb
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Ty Webb » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am

OP seems like a massive bitch.
That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.


Hey I've got an idea. Get the fffff off of an internet message board trumpeting problems that haven't even occurred for you yet and, you know, do something about it.

No debt...t-14 school...you don't seem smart enough to have gotten a full ride. This leads me to the determination that you're an entitled prick with unreasonable expectations of the world. I'm not far off, am I?

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romothesavior
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:49 am

EnriqueL wrote:
NayBoer wrote:Did you have post-college work experience before going to law school?


Yes. Is this 20 Questions? You looking for the question where I'll say, "No" and then you'll finally get the chance to say, "See, you should have done XYZ."

I can tell you for a fact though that post-college work experience has nothing to do with this. When I see the guys with Federal positions, CoA clerkships, or V100, whether they worked after college does not predict where they end up.


Yes, it is 20 questions.

A/S/L?

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:50 am

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:51 am

tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
quishiclocus wrote:In other words...

Law School: Still not a Get Rich Quick scheme.

The economy is bad. The economy's going to be bad no matter what you do. Preparing yourself for a career you love is always a good move. Preparing yourself for a career in order to get rich is always a bad move. Can we move on already?

The ones who're in this for the dream of the fancy cars and Manhattan apartments aren't going to listen, and the ones who don't care about that would just kill to be in your shoes of being able to do it without debt.


Nah. Actually I dreamed of working DoJ or FTC. Can't do that now that they have their pick of no-offered or underemployed HYS's. Nice try though.


So for a student looking to grad in 2014 and who will likely have the choice of at least one of HYS plus significant money at T10 schools would you still recommend not going to law school??


Yale is good. Stanford, I wouldn't recommend unless you really want BigLaw. Harvard is not as good as Yale, but might be a good bet if you really want to be a lawyer and are not just looking for prestige. A lawyer's life, even a partner's, is not always fulfilling (85 hour weeks in many firms, high stress). I probably don't need to tell you that.

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:51 am

EnriqueL wrote:
kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.



How much will you be making in 5 years? A lot of people fail to take in to account the long-term salary benefits of a JD.


That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.

It's not at all what you think, kalvano.



That's odd. Because I know a lot of lawyers. A lot. Including recent grads. And all, without fail, are making more now than when they started. Which leads me to believe you aren't very good at your job.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:51 am

Sauer Grapes wrote:Do you mind sharing your specific school? It's not like that would out you.


Absolutely not.

lawduder
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby lawduder » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:51 am

did you guys just get trolled?

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Ty Webb
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Ty Webb » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:53 am

EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
quishiclocus wrote:In other words...

Law School: Still not a Get Rich Quick scheme.

The economy is bad. The economy's going to be bad no matter what you do. Preparing yourself for a career you love is always a good move. Preparing yourself for a career in order to get rich is always a bad move. Can we move on already?

The ones who're in this for the dream of the fancy cars and Manhattan apartments aren't going to listen, and the ones who don't care about that would just kill to be in your shoes of being able to do it without debt.


Nah. Actually I dreamed of working DoJ or FTC. Can't do that now that they have their pick of no-offered or underemployed HYS's. Nice try though.


So for a student looking to grad in 2014 and who will likely have the choice of at least one of HYS plus significant money at T10 schools would you still recommend not going to law school??


I probably don't need to tell you that.


This is where you could have begun and stopped during the first post of this thread.

OP: You're spouting information that every person here has heard before. Only difference is that your information is whinier.

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romothesavior
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby romothesavior » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:53 am

kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.



How much will you be making in 5 years? A lot of people fail to take in to account the long-term salary benefits of a JD.


That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.

It's not at all what you think, kalvano.



That's odd. Because I know a lot of lawyers. A lot. Including recent grads. And all, without fail, are making more now than when they started. Which leads me to believe you aren't very good at your job.


How would he possibly be making less in 5 years? Disbarred perhaps?

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:53 am

kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
kalvano wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Around $50,000. It's not too bad in itself; but if law schools are charging $150,000 to attend and then misrepresenting the data on starting salaries, then we have a problem. This has all been covered before, you're right, by the JDU and "law school scam" crowd. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a scam right now, but sometimes I wonder whether they know that they are full of shit.



How much will you be making in 5 years? A lot of people fail to take in to account the long-term salary benefits of a JD.


That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.

It's not at all what you think, kalvano.



That's odd. Because I know a lot of lawyers. A lot. Including recent grads. And all, without fail, are making more now than when they started. Which leads me to believe you aren't very good at your job.


I barely started my job. I just graduated. The situation is different. The old crocodiles have it good. No denying that. But you can see the ground shifting under your feet.

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:53 am

....
Last edited by Sauer Grapes on Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Veyron
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Veyron » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:54 am

Ty Webb wrote:OP seems like a massive bitch.
That's the thing. I will consider myself lucky if I'll be making even slightly more. There's a big chance that I end up making less five years down the road. The structural problems in the legal field and the ABA's response to them are terrifying.


Hey I've got an idea. Get the fffff off of an internet message board trumpeting problems that haven't even occurred for you yet and, you know, do something about it.

No debt...t-14 school...you don't seem smart enough to have gotten a full ride. This leads me to the determination that you're an entitled prick with unreasonable expectations of the world. I'm not far off, am I?


WTF dood, this man has a legitimate report from the trenches and you have to go and shit all over him?

OP, why won't the structural problems be resolved in the midterm?

What is your take on secondary markets?

I want to earn 75k (not in NYC) +. Does MVP (with some $) give me a reasonable expectation (not guarantee) of doing this?

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acharyainc
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby acharyainc » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:54 am

jackalope11 wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:Before anyone asks: T14, above median, got a job that doesn't pay enough in relation to the cost of tuition. No loans. Still pissed. If I had taken on loans, life would be much, much more difficult.



Sincerely,

E.L.


Respectfully, because I appreciate your opinion and taking the time to offer a heartfelt warning, I wanted to take a moment to answer... I think this bolded portion is indicative of the very attitude that is a problem with many students heading LS.

They don't start law school because they could only see themselves as lawyers, or because they had some overwhelming desire to have a career in the service of the law. Rather, they see an opportunity to make a huge salary at the end. In the case where people see this overwhelming profit motive, you're going to have what we have now, an overprovision of law students relative to the market they serve.

I totally agree that one should not take on a debt burden that they will be unlikely to repay... but I think many people are going to LS to become lawyers because it is their dream, rather than making a cost-benefit analysis of what their earning potential will be outside of school. For those of us in this boat, I think that this should be a remider to consider the consequences of acquiring too much debt while in school...


+1

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Grizz
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:54 am

kalvano wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
jackalope11 wrote:It's okay, Romo... You've got plenty of fans too. :lol:


It's okay... rad law and I are on the same team.



Rad law is romo's alt.


Romo, corn-fed midwesterner, has an alt who looks like a stereotypical southern frat boy yet is somewhat azn? Points for creativity.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:56 am

That's odd. Because I know a lot of lawyers. A lot. Including recent grads. And all, without fail, are making more now than when they started. Which leads me to believe you aren't very good at your job.


How would he possibly be making less in 5 years? Disbarred perhaps?[/quote][/quote]




Haha, I'll try not to be mean in responding to you, but there is such a science called "economics."

Look: there are downward pressures on salaries and billable rates. That's a mild way of saying it. Temp positions that went for $40+ an hour two years ago are now offering $15-25 an hour. Temp positions are a good way of measuring downward wage/salary pressures, but this affects all of us (except for the partners who are happy that they can get good work for cheaper).




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