I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:33 am

legalease9 wrote:I feel for you



Image

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jackalope11
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby jackalope11 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:34 am

mistergoft wrote:
jackalope11 wrote:Great... now you've has compared Romo to Will Ferrell... he'll never let us hear the end of it. :lol:

He's Ron Burgundy? (from the teleprompter)

I hope this was intentional.



Dang... I wish... Broke my own rule about re-reading before I post. :oops:

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legalease9
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby legalease9 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:35 am

EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


Lucky for me I have seen enough of the "real world" to know that ~99% of jobs are decidedly unfulfilling to most people either because the work sucks or they make too little/no opp for advancement. Im currently working a summer job in finance for a Fortune 500 level company and while the work sucks, I have discovered I definitely have the personality type that leads to the decent pay making it better. I have never understood the illusion of thinking you need this perfect job that you love forever. I would love to get into academia, but if that doesn't work out biglaw wont be much worse than what the rest of my fellow econ grads are doing. Basically people need to accept the fact that MOST jobs suck when they complain about legal work based on lifestyle. You really should look other places in life for fulfillment.


I don't think you should go to law school.


+1

And doing a job you hate on the promise of finding happiness elsewhere... thats an awful lot of your life being thrown away (especially if you become a lawyer) to something you hate. hating your job means hating over half of your hours awake for the rest of your life. Sounds bad to me.

rundoxierun
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:36 am

Also, just would like to say that not just Biglaw is downsizing.. EVERYTHING is downsizing!! We had an all finance meeting at my company a few days ago and our CFO literally told an entire department(some sort of payroll) that their jobs could be gone at any moment("We havent decided anything yet but we are looking into it and will keep you posted"). Even in healthcare there are a lot of OPEN jobs but a lot of those jobs are just simply being unfilled on purpose. People complain about law but they need to show some viable alternatives at the same time. People also need to understand that a ~50%+ chance at 160k seen at most of T10 is phenomenal, and the ~70% chance seen at the T6 is beyond phenomenal. Yeah it sucks if you dont make it but seriously think about it.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:37 am

tkgrrett wrote:Also, just would like to say that not just Biglaw is downsizing.. EVERYTHING is downsizing!! We had an all finance meeting at my company a few days ago and our CFO literally told an entire department(some sort of payroll) that their jobs could be gone at any moment("We havent decided anything yet but we are looking into it and will keep you posted"). Even in healthcare there are a lot of OPEN jobs but a lot of those jobs are just simply being unfilled on purpose. People complain about law but they need to show some viable alternatives at the same time. People also need to understand that a ~50%+ chance at 160k seen at most of T10 is phenomenal, and the ~70% chance seen at the T6 is beyond phenomenal. Yeah it sucks if you dont make it but seriously think about it.


LOL! "Law is doing badly. But so is everything else. Ergo I should go to law school."

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PKSebben
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby PKSebben » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:40 am

EnriqueL wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
though often ridiculous and hyperbolic, do relay real experience


I'm confused on this point. If it's ridiculous and hyperbolic, how is it a real experience? Why can't we just get straight shooters? As a recent grad, I know it's tough out there and I'm sympathetic to those left out in the cold. But what you never quite hear about from the scam-blog types is which school they attended, how much debt they took on, what their grades were, and what they're doing now. If you want people to reconsider law school (and I think many of them should) then I think it's only fair you ask them to make an informed decision. And most of the scam blogs/JDU types seem less interested in helping people make informed decisions but rather more in taking delight in scaring the bejesus out of people. The former I can respect, the latter I cannot.


No one wants to out themselves on the internet, but a few of them do give you an idea.

T14 Paradise: Drake
Big Debt, Small Law: Seton Hall
First tier toilet: T14, I think
But I did everything right: T14 for one author, and I think a T50 for the other

They are hyperbolic when they rant; but nothing I've ever read on there reads like a lie. Some of them shoot straighter then the others though.


The T14 dudes I can understand their frustration. The T50, Drake, and Seton Hall dudes knew exactly what they were getting into. Even five years ago it was not worth going to those schools at full price. I would like to see how the T14 dudes do down the road though. I think the takeaway point is that NOBODY is guaranteed biglaw. I'd feel okay about biglaw at HYSCCN, but below that, you have to consider that you might not get a biglaw gig and let that factor into how much debt one is willing to take on. It makes much more sense to take a free ride at Vandy/GULC than go to Michigan at sticker these days.

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interalia
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby interalia » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:42 am

EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Also, just would like to say that not just Biglaw is downsizing.. EVERYTHING is downsizing!! We had an all finance meeting at my company a few days ago and our CFO literally told an entire department(some sort of payroll) that their jobs could be gone at any moment("We havent decided anything yet but we are looking into it and will keep you posted"). Even in healthcare there are a lot of OPEN jobs but a lot of those jobs are just simply being unfilled on purpose. People complain about law but they need to show some viable alternatives at the same time. People also need to understand that a ~50%+ chance at 160k seen at most of T10 is phenomenal, and the ~70% chance seen at the T6 is beyond phenomenal. Yeah it sucks if you dont make it but seriously think about it.


LOL! "Law is doing badly. But so is everything else. Ergo I should go to law school."



OP: the fact of the matter is that with legal employment where it is, people at T14 and above schools can't all get good jobs.

Some really good and really bright people will be underemployed, unfortunately.

But with the attitude you've displayed in this thread, I can say that you were a worthy sacrifice.

rundoxierun
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:42 am

]
EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
Alyssa wrote:
I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


Lucky for me I have seen enough of the "real world" to know that ~99% of jobs are decidedly unfulfilling to most people either because the work sucks or they make too little/no opp for advancement. Im currently working a summer job in finance for a Fortune 500 level company and while the work sucks, I have discovered I definitely have the personality type that leads to the decent pay making it better. I have never understood the illusion of thinking you need this perfect job that you love forever. I would love to get into academia, but if that doesn't work out biglaw wont be much worse than what the rest of my fellow econ grads are doing. Basically people need to accept the fact that MOST jobs suck when they complain about legal work based on lifestyle. You really should look other places in life for fulfillment.


I don't think you should go to law school.


+1

And doing a job you hate on the promise of finding happiness elsewhere... thats an awful lot of your life being thrown away (especially if you become a lawyer) to something you hate. hating your job means hating over half of your hours awake for the rest of your life. Sounds bad to me.


Umm.. what?? I never said I hate anything. I have been lucky enough to see a bit of what Biglaw type lawyers do so I know the life. What I am saying is that Im not the type to look for that perfect job so Im not as put off by the lifestyle as most and more people need to realize what life is like in other fields compared to law. Is biglaw my dream?? No. Do I think its an acceptable job in comparison to other options? Hell yes.

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legalease9
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby legalease9 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:43 am

Ok, by now you're just grasping at straws. I loved the law. I wanted to be a lawyer since I was 12. You're not getting it.

I think at this point, if you want to disbelieve me, go ahead. It's getting ridiculous here.


I don't disbelieve you. I'm just reading what you wrote. the past tense is revealing. I didn't say you didn't once love the law, I'm saying that you have come to realize that you don't enjoy the profession.

Now if you meant to say that you still love the law, then why are you unhappy? You got your wish. You can practice law! You did it without putting yourself in deep debt. Most people can't say that. The only way your argument makes sense is if you don't want to be a lawyer. Which I think is the case here.

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PKSebben
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby PKSebben » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:45 am

EnriqueL wrote:
Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


See, now you are retarded. The LRAP programs at top schools make up for the debt if one wishes to do something preftigious but shitty paying. This is why I think the lot of you are hacks.

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jackalope11
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby jackalope11 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:46 am

legalease9 wrote:
I don't disbelieve you. I'm just reading what you wrote. the past tense is revealing. I didn't say you didn't once love the law, I'm saying that you have come to realize that you don't enjoy the profession.

Now if you meant to say that you still love the law, then why are you unhappy? You got your wish. You can practice law! You did it without putting yourself in deep debt. Most people can't say that. The only way your argument makes sense is if you don't want to be a lawyer. Which I think is the case here.



Very interesting point...

rundoxierun
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:47 am

EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Also, just would like to say that not just Biglaw is downsizing.. EVERYTHING is downsizing!! We had an all finance meeting at my company a few days ago and our CFO literally told an entire department(some sort of payroll) that their jobs could be gone at any moment("We havent decided anything yet but we are looking into it and will keep you posted"). Even in healthcare there are a lot of OPEN jobs but a lot of those jobs are just simply being unfilled on purpose. People complain about law but they need to show some viable alternatives at the same time. People also need to understand that a ~50%+ chance at 160k seen at most of T10 is phenomenal, and the ~70% chance seen at the T6 is beyond phenomenal. Yeah it sucks if you dont make it but seriously think about it.


LOL! "Law is doing badly. But so is everything else. Ergo I should go to law school."


Umm no.. more like "Im not wanting to go into law wanting to do fed work because I think its filled with unicorns and rainbows but in reality I would probably be complaining about that too." Im going to law school because I have seen the lifestyle and dont really mind it and I have numbers that will give me the opportunity to attend a school that will give me a decent shot at academia(which actually is my dream job) while also allowing me a shot at biglaw salary or govt entities if my priorities change.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:48 am

PKSebben wrote:
Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


See, now you are retarded. The LRAP programs at top schools make up for the debt if one wishes to do something preftigious but shitty paying. This is why I think the lot of you are hacks.[/quote]

Those jobs don't come easy. Especially not when you're competing with BigLaw-subsidized deferred associates.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:49 am

tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Also, just would like to say that not just Biglaw is downsizing.. EVERYTHING is downsizing!! We had an all finance meeting at my company a few days ago and our CFO literally told an entire department(some sort of payroll) that their jobs could be gone at any moment("We havent decided anything yet but we are looking into it and will keep you posted"). Even in healthcare there are a lot of OPEN jobs but a lot of those jobs are just simply being unfilled on purpose. People complain about law but they need to show some viable alternatives at the same time. People also need to understand that a ~50%+ chance at 160k seen at most of T10 is phenomenal, and the ~70% chance seen at the T6 is beyond phenomenal. Yeah it sucks if you dont make it but seriously think about it.


LOL! "Law is doing badly. But so is everything else. Ergo I should go to law school."


Umm no.. more like "Im not wanting to go into law wanting to do fed work because I think its filled with unicorns and rainbows but in reality I would probably be complaining about that too." Im going to law school because I have seen the lifestyle and dont really mind it and I have numbers that will give me the opportunity to attend a school that will give me a decent shot at academia(which actually is my dream job) while also allowing me a shot at biglaw salary or govt entities if my priorities change.


Unless you go to HYS, you have almost no chance at academia unless you consider teaching torts to 1Ls at Florida Coastal to be academia.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:50 am

EnriqueL wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


See, now you are retarded. The LRAP programs at top schools make up for the debt if one wishes to do something preftigious but shitty paying. This is why I think the lot of you are hacks.


Those jobs don't come easy. Especially not when you're competing with BigLaw-subsidized deferred associates. Besides, I don't have loans. So this is kind of beside the point. My friends who do all tell me that LRAP is more hype than substance. They're literally drowning in debt. I know a guy who at my school who's $200,000 in debt but without a real job.

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PKSebben
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby PKSebben » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:52 am

EnriqueL wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


See, now you are retarded. The LRAP programs at top schools make up for the debt if one wishes to do something preftigious but shitty paying. This is why I think the lot of you are hacks.


Those jobs don't come easy. Especially not when you're competing with BigLaw-subsidized deferred associates.[/quote]

a) we're talking 2013, chief. There will be no subsidized associates in 2013. Very few firms are offering subsidies for the 2010 classes. Stipends were an anomaly of the 2009 class.

b) You don't even need to do public interest to be eligible for LRAP at top schools. You can hang a shingle and take advantage of LRAP.

c) if you want the preftigious positions, there is no better bet than going to HYS -- you are just fucking delusional and bitter.

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legalease9
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby legalease9 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:52 am

.

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PKSebben
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby PKSebben » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:53 am

EnriqueL wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
PKSebben wrote:
Alyssa wrote:I understand both sides here.



(oh, and lol at the school ratings he gave - yale is "good", stanford "wouldn't recommend" and harvard "not as good as yale")


I wouldn't recommend Stanford unless you know you want to do BigLaw. That's what it's known for.

My enthusiasm is limited because if I could go back in time, I would not go to Harvard or Stanford if I got in and had a decent scholarship. Yale is another story; but I wouldn't be all excited about it either.

Well we can't go back in time, but we sure can talk about our choices.


See, now you are retarded. The LRAP programs at top schools make up for the debt if one wishes to do something preftigious but shitty paying. This is why I think the lot of you are hacks.


Those jobs don't come easy. Especially not when you're competing with BigLaw-subsidized deferred associates. Besides, I don't have loans. So this is kind of beside the point. My friends who do all tell me that LRAP is more hype than substance. They're literally drowning in debt. I know a guy who at my school who's $200,000 in debt but without a real job.


How is it hype? You can see EXACTLY what each LRAP program pays out at each school. There is a comprehensive analysis on this website of exactly what each LRAP pays out at all the top schools. What school (or range of school) do you attend? Is it worth 200k to attend? What are his grades? Anecdotal evidence without the entire story is useless as shit.

rundoxierun
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby rundoxierun » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:53 am

EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:
EnriqueL wrote:
tkgrrett wrote:Also, just would like to say that not just Biglaw is downsizing.. EVERYTHING is downsizing!! We had an all finance meeting at my company a few days ago and our CFO literally told an entire department(some sort of payroll) that their jobs could be gone at any moment("We havent decided anything yet but we are looking into it and will keep you posted"). Even in healthcare there are a lot of OPEN jobs but a lot of those jobs are just simply being unfilled on purpose. People complain about law but they need to show some viable alternatives at the same time. People also need to understand that a ~50%+ chance at 160k seen at most of T10 is phenomenal, and the ~70% chance seen at the T6 is beyond phenomenal. Yeah it sucks if you dont make it but seriously think about it.


LOL! "Law is doing badly. But so is everything else. Ergo I should go to law school."


Umm no.. more like "Im not wanting to go into law wanting to do fed work because I think its filled with unicorns and rainbows but in reality I would probably be complaining about that too." Im going to law school because I have seen the lifestyle and dont really mind it and I have numbers that will give me the opportunity to attend a school that will give me a decent shot at academia(which actually is my dream job) while also allowing me a shot at biglaw salary or govt entities if my priorities change.


Unless you go to HYS, you have almost no chance at academia unless you consider teaching torts to 1Ls at Florida Coastal to be academia.


What you are saying isnt really entirely true, but yes, I have HYSCC numbers. As you may have noticed in my post I even made it clear that I was accounting for the huge chance I wont make academia.

ze2151
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby ze2151 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:53 am

well there you go. i'm going to withdraw because you know a guy.

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kalvano
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby kalvano » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:55 am

Also, you have to put forth effort to be $200K in debt, the big three notwithstanding.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:55 am

ze2151 wrote:well there you go. i'm going to withdraw because you know a guy.


I know one guy with $200,000 in debt. I don't ask people about their finances. I do know a shit ton of others who have over $100,000 to pay back.

You know, people on this thread are really angry for some reason. Sorry for bursting your bubble.

EnriqueL
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby EnriqueL » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:56 am

PKSebben wrote:


a) we're talking 2013, chief. There will be no subsidized associates in 2013. Very few firms are offering subsidies for the 2010 classes. Stipends were an anomaly of the 2009 class.

b) You don't even need to do public interest to be eligible for LRAP at top schools. You can hang a shingle and take advantage of LRAP.

c) if you want the preftigious positions, there is no better bet than going to HYS -- you are just fucking delusional and bitter.[/quote]


a) 2013 might be worse.
b) Not really.
c) I am not the delusional one bro.

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:56 am

EnriqueL wrote:
Sauer Grapes wrote:Do you mind sharing your specific school? It's not like that would out you.


Absolutely not.

Why not?

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Grizz
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Re: I Definitely Do NOT Recommend Law School

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:57 am

EnriqueL wrote:
ze2151 wrote:well there you go. i'm going to withdraw because you know a guy.


I know one guy with $200,000 in debt. I don't ask people about their finances. I do know a shit ton of others who have over $100,000 to pay back.

You know, people on this thread are really angry for some reason. Sorry for bursting your bubble.


I'm not mad; this is just something I've heard a million times before.




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