3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

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akham77
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3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:25 pm

Hey guys, do you think I have a realistic shot at Upenn ED? What sorts of schools do you think would be realistic shots RD with these sorts of numbers? Please advise.

Thanks!

Pearalegal
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:26 pm

No, I don't think you do. You're looking at T20s as good targets.

akham77
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:28 pm

Bummer. Paralegal work experience abroad. Would this be of any help?

Pearalegal
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:28 pm

Nope.

09042014
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:29 pm

You better apply to Cornell and hope they don't figure out how to raise their LSAT median in the next year.

Can you retake and get a better score. You are on the cusp of some great schools.

thechee
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby thechee » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:31 pm

Retake, boost your score up to a 170, and you're almost certainly in.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:31 pm

akham77 wrote:Bummer. Paralegal work experience abroad. Would this be of any help?



No, that is pretty normal applicant material. The problem is that you are a ways below median in both numbers for Penn. You are, I would guess, around the 30th percentile in both numbers.

Try Cornell. You are at their median for LSAT, and I'm not sure about gpa.

akham77
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:33 pm

Well, went into the exam with a couple months prep (course), but might benefit with more time and PTs. Obviously no guarantees of improvement though so not fully confident that I can raise the score.

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daesonesb
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby daesonesb » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:34 pm

You should shoot for GWU---Cornell range.

Northwestern might be a good reach if you aren't worried about gambling away a 100 dollar app fee.

akham77
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:38 pm

Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.

akham77
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:40 pm

Truly unbelievable, the difference between the 167 and a 170 was a matter of 3 measly questions.

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daesonesb
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby daesonesb » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:44 pm

akham77 wrote:Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.


Your LSAT isn't quite high enough to be a shoe in at Northwestern. Lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a consider, which means it's truly a toss up numbers-wise.

After 165, those extra questions make a HUGE difference.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:47 pm

Numbers-based admissions are kind of crazy sometimes. With GPA, there are far more absurd examples (at least everyone takes an equivalent test for the LSAT). With regard to the LSAT, it is just assumed by top law school adcoms now-a-days that if you could have done better, you would have. If you really are serious about law school, you start to get serious about the LSAT over a year out, etc, and take multiple times if need be.

Find the median GPA for Cornell, and if you are near it, hit that school hard.

09042014
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby 09042014 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 2:14 pm

daesonesb wrote:
akham77 wrote:Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.


Your LSAT isn't quite high enough to be a shoe in at Northwestern. Lawschoolpredictor.com has you as a consider, which means it's truly a toss up numbers-wise.

After 165, those extra questions make a HUGE difference.


OP is below both medians. That makes NU a huge longshot.

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nealric
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby nealric » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:02 pm

Financial aid isn't an admissions criteria in law school because everyone just takes out loans anyways- doesn't cost the school a thing.

reverendt
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby reverendt » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:07 pm

akham77 wrote:Truly unbelievable, the difference between the 167 and a 170 was a matter of 3 measly questions.

Wait till you see how little the difference between an A and a B on a law school exam can be....

sumus romani
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:14 pm

nealric wrote:Financial aid isn't an admissions criteria in law school because everyone just takes out loans anyways- doesn't cost the school a thing.



This isn't quite right. Some schools have a question on the form about whether you are willing to pay sticker. I'm not sure of the exact wording of the question, but I recall it on quite a few apps within the T14. The question is on there for several reasons, and someone who refuses to apply for aid indeed does get a slight admissions advantage.

Also, I recall a thread from some idiot who asked the school if he could apply for aid, even though he said he would forgo it on his ap, and the school :lol:

Pearalegal
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:19 pm

akham77 wrote:Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.



Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 01, 2010 3:26 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
akham77 wrote:Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.



Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.



I'm looking at the Cornell LSN graph right now. In the 167 column, there are a buch of rejects below 3.52, a bunch of waitlists and admits between 3.55 and 3.7, and a bunch of admits above 3.7. I just don't see why Cornell isn't that doable, espcially if the OP hits it hard (visits, etc.).

Pearalegal
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:18 pm

sumus romani wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
akham77 wrote:Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.



Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.



I'm looking at the Cornell LSN graph right now. In the 167 column, there are a buch of rejects below 3.52, a bunch of waitlists and admits between 3.55 and 3.7, and a bunch of admits above 3.7. I just don't see why Cornell isn't that doable, espcially if the OP hits it hard (visits, etc.).


I should have rephrased. Its doable, but its not something OP should consider a sure thing.

akham77
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:26 pm

Pearalegal, thank you for your help, but don't be an asshole man. I'm clearly not trying to flaunt my "luck" to a bunch of people I don't know on a blog. I'm merely pointing out what I figured may or may not be a factor in admissions, financial aid or the lack of the need for it. As for the application fee, this was simply to clarify that yes indeed I am willing to throw out as many apps as possible to net the best school possible. Again, thanks for the attention to the post, but don't perceive or portray my comments in a falsely arrogant light. Thanks.

Pearalegal
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:32 pm

akham77 wrote:Pearalegal, thank you for your help, but don't be an asshole man. I'm clearly not trying to flaunt my "luck" to a bunch of people I don't know on a blog. I'm merely pointing out what I figured may or may not be a factor in admissions, financial aid or the lack of the need for it. As for the application fee, this was simply to clarify that yes indeed I am willing to throw out as many apps as possible to net the best school possible. Again, thanks for the attention to the post, but don't perceive or portray my comments in a falsely arrogant light. Thanks.


Then apologies. I took your tone a different way then you obviously meant it, and because financial need or ivy league undergrad isn't a factor in admissions which is all you were asking about, I didn't read your comments the right way. Generally whenever I read a comment about economic values that is phrased, "several hundred dollars is a non-issue," I automatically roll my eyes.

Good luck with everything, we have pretty similar numbers so I understand that you're in an odd in-between position.

akham77
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby akham77 » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:37 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
sumus romani wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
akham77 wrote:Several hundred dollars in application fees is a non-issue. How is it that Cornell would be so doable yet Northwestern is a clear reach? Looking at their numbers, it seems like my GPA would really give my odds a boost with Northwestern.



Cornell isn't that doable, especially that cycle. You'd likely still be on reserve if you had applied there this cycle.

Also, you've now brought up that money isn't an issue for you twice. We get it, you're lucky. You don't need to go out of your way to point out your personal circumstances after your OP that 100 dollars isn't a problem for you.

Also, the reason you're in such a position is because someone along the line cared about how to smartly spend 100 dollars.



I'm looking at the Cornell LSN graph right now. In the 167 column, there are a buch of rejects below 3.52, a bunch of waitlists and admits between 3.55 and 3.7, and a bunch of admits above 3.7. I just don't see why Cornell isn't that doable, espcially if the OP hits it hard (visits, etc.).


I should have rephrased. Its doable, but its not something OP should consider a sure thing.


And agreed Pearalegal, based on my precarious numbers, I suppose none of the T15 is a sure thing. I just wanted to get a sense for any opinions out there on any wiggle room that might exist in this whole admissions process. My numbers are in the running for most of these schools but seemingly not competitive when taken together for any school other than Cornell. This is bizarre.

Pearalegal
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby Pearalegal » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:40 pm

akham77 wrote:And agreed Pearalegal, based on my precarious numbers, I suppose none of the T15 is a sure thing. I just wanted to get a sense for any opinions out there on any wiggle room that might exist in this whole admissions process. My numbers are in the running for most of these schools but seemingly not competitive when taken together for any school other than Cornell. This is bizarre.


Don't look at ranges, only medians. Unfortunately you get a much more realistic view that way.

sumus romani
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Re: 3.67 (ivy league undergrad); 167; no need for financial aid

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 01, 2010 4:45 pm

The more I look into this, the more I see room for admit. OP is exactly at both medians for Cornell (3.67 and 167). Perhaps the OP is a flame, given the identity of numbers. But if not, then if OP is willing to travel to Cornell before application, pay sticker, etc., then this seems like a great shot at admit. The ivy degree helps just a sliver too.




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