General questions for someone who is going in blind Forum

[ajmanyjah]

So after interviewing 3 times over 3 years for PhD programs I have decided to go back to what my old addiction to Law and Order instilled in me---the need to become a lawyer...also you don't have to beg for funding

In that vein, I'm getting into the LSATs, and have taken the stuff off the LSAC website that they post.

Just some general questions (I know nothing is absolute, just looking for a feel to the admissions game)
1-Is it really all GPA and LSATs? Does the fact that I took sciences/honors stream and wrote two theses help or hurt me (ie are they looking for Poli Sci majors and the like, or what)?
2-I took my undergrad at McGill, in Montreal...will having studied in Canada matter?
3-The "softs" or whatever, ie personal statement, work experience, do they matter for everyone (ie is it you reach the numbers cutoff, then look for softs, or is it a way to kinda leapfrog people with better numbers)? Would my experience as a teacher in China and a few research jobs I have had mean anything, positive or negative?
4-I am also looking at an internship in a law firm here, and also volunteering at the local public defender's office...should I do both and study for the LSATs less, or just spend all my time on the LSAT prep? I got a 157 in a loud room not concentrating much on the practice test, and I probably will take a class.

Thanks for your responses, and sorry if this is child's play to most on here, I have been pretty exclusively concentrating on research and have been in the bubble for a while.

[DaveBear07]

I'll take a stab.

1) It is mostly LSAT and GPA. Your two theses won't hurt you, could help you.

2) From what I've gathered, going to UG in Canada doesn't affect much at all. May have to fill out more paperwork though, not sure.

3) They matter on the fringes moreso, but sounds like you have some quality softs. They may help in scholarship offers.

4) Focus more on the LSAT. Head over to the LSAT forum to see where to begin. I recommend the Powerscore Logic Games and Logical Reasoning Bibles. And doing lots of Practice Tests.

HTH.

[emilybeth]

Well, to begin, you should definitely continue basing hundred-thousand-dollar decisions on Law & Order.

[Cardboardbox]

So after interviewing 3 times over 3 years for PhD programs I have decided to go back to what my old addiction to Law and Order instilled in me---the need to become a lawyer...also you don't have to beg for funding

In that vein, I'm getting into the LSATs, and have taken the stuff off the LSAC website that they post.

Just some general questions (I know nothing is absolute, just looking for a feel to the admissions game)
1-Is it really all GPA and LSATs? Does the fact that I took sciences/honors stream and wrote two theses help or hurt me (ie are they looking for Poli Sci majors and the like, or what)?
2-I took my undergrad at McGill, in Montreal...will having studied in Canada matter?
3-The "softs" or whatever, ie personal statement, work experience, do they matter for everyone (ie is it you reach the numbers cutoff, then look for softs, or is it a way to kinda leapfrog people with better numbers)? Would my experience as a teacher in China and a few research jobs I have had mean anything, positive or negative?
4-I am also looking at an internship in a law firm here, and also volunteering at the local public defender's office...should I do both and study for the LSATs less, or just spend all my time on the LSAT prep? I got a 157 in a loud room not concentrating much on the practice test, and I probably will take a class.

Thanks for your responses, and sorry if this is child's play to most on here, I have been pretty exclusively concentrating on research and have been in the bubble for a while.

1) For the most part, yes, it's a numbers game and your GPA + LSAT is what will count far far more than anything else.

2) Pretty sure it's of no significance.

3) Unless your softs are spectacular, they won't matter one way or the other.

4) Focus on the LSAT, definently take a class, get the Powerscore Bibles. Honestly, IMO I'd say don't do either and just focus soley on demolishing the LSAT. It will mean and count for a lot more than either of those.

Also, this goes without saying, but I hope you're not soley basing your want to be a lawyer off Law and Order lol

[animalcrkrs]

Are you actually blind? Because I bet that is a great soft and your PS will probably rock (make sure you provide a PS typed AND in Braille for maximum effect)

Also, this:

Well, to begin, you should definitely continue basing hundred-thousand-dollar decisions on Law & Order.

[ajmanyjah]

Well, to begin, you should definitely continue basing hundred-thousand-dollar decisions on Law & Order.

If you thought I was a hundred percent serious, I guess they don't teach humor in moot court

I am applying to law school, that's about it, my motivation are obviously more than that

Anyway, thanks for all the useful information

[thatsnotmyname]

I'm going to echo the posters above me and say that I hope you were being sarcastic about the Law and Order comment... But anyways be sure to really research legal careers (or lack thereof) and be sure that you would be comfortable with the likely outcome/career path before you decide to attend law school. Going to law school just because you can't obtain funding for a PhD program sounds like a bad plan...

[romothesavior]

LSAT, LSAT, LSAT. That's what you need to focus on.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657

[ajmanyjah]

Obviously I won't get into Yale, or Harvard or any of those schools (GPA is 3.5, basically had no extracurriculars beyond partying and learning French) but are there lower tier schools that have access to federal level clerkships, or is it basically HYS students who have a chance to get into the rarefied air of federal judges?

And sorry about the whimsical nature of the post, I know a lot of you are dead serious on this forum, sorry...my choices were always either a neurosciences/psych PhD or law for years, the law interests me in a serious way and has since I was a kid and into politics etc, but I heard UPenn was good at mixing fields with your JD and the like...is there any type of program that would get me a way to mix my interests (linguistics, neuroscience, law, civil rights)...for example, language and education rights? Or does this come after getting my JD in how I choose a career

[ajmanyjah]

And sorry for the rush of questions (most of my contacts are my dad's 60 year old lawyers that can barely remember applications) but ONE final one.

Do law schools really distinguish between, say a 169 and a 172, or a 173 and a 176, as these are within natural statistical variation? In retaking, do they take the best score or an average or the latest (or differs for different schools)? And I'm taking the October test...if I am applying for normal, not early, will a retake in December be early enough for apps?

[ajmanyjah]

Anyway, thanks for all the advice, I will get on the LSAT prep forum now.

Thanks

[Mirrored]

No.
No. No. No.

You are considering law for all of the wrong reasons.

You do not go to law school because you could not get into a PhD, Masters, or MBA program. That is not the right reason.
You do not go to law school because you liked Law and Order and have romantic ideals of Justice. That is not the right reason.
You do not go to law school because you do not know what to do and want to be successful. That is the worst reason.

Your aptitude test showed that you were not ideally positioned for Law School. To someone applying to law school for the right reasons, I would said "Screw the test, do what you want and love".

But you do not fit into that category. You have never worked in a legal field and I am not sure what you are currently doing. You sound like you need some focus and you need a very clear goal. I'd like you to take some time to solidly consider Why Law? And write out a statement to yourself of why in the world you want to do this.

[libertarian]

.

[bilbobaggins]

Well, to begin, you should definitely continue basing hundred-thousand-dollar decisions on Law & Order.

If you thought I was a hundred percent serious, I guess they don't teach humor in moot court

I am applying to law school, that's about it, my motivation are obviously more than that

Anyway, thanks for all the useful information

Where can I sign up for this "moot court" where they teach things other than humor?

[paratactical]

.

[daesonesb]

So after interviewing 3 times over 3 years for PhD programs I have decided to go back to what my old addiction to Law and Order instilled in me---the need to become a lawyer...also you don't have to beg for funding

In that vein, I'm getting into the LSATs, and have taken the stuff off the LSAC website that they post.

Just some general questions (I know nothing is absolute, just looking for a feel to the admissions game)
1-Is it really all GPA and LSATs? Does the fact that I took sciences/honors stream and wrote two theses help or hurt me (ie are they looking for Poli Sci majors and the like, or what)?
Mostly a numbers game. But the numbers will only get you in the door at the best schools. Your PHD experience will be an asset, one you should play to.
2-I took my undergrad at McGill, in Montreal...will having studied in Canada matter?
As a fellow Canadian UG student, I can say that this hasn't been an issue for me. I think my application cycle went in a pretty predictable fashion given my numbers.
3-The "softs" or whatever, ie personal statement, work experience, do they matter for everyone (ie is it you reach the numbers cutoff, then look for softs, or is it a way to kinda leapfrog people with better numbers)? Would my experience as a teacher in China and a few research jobs I have had mean anything, positive or negative?
Small positive effect.
4-I am also looking at an internship in a law firm here, and also volunteering at the local public defender's office...should I do both and study for the LSATs less, or just spend all my time on the LSAT prep? I got a 157 in a loud room not concentrating much on the practice test, and I probably will take a class.
Test prep is to be put above all else! The LSAT is the single determinant of what tier of schools you will be able to get into. With a 157, you'll be stuck in the "Second tier" of schools ranked 50-100. Study, and get that into the high 160's, and you have a shot at a T-14.

/conventional wisdom.
Thanks for your responses, and sorry if this is child's play to most on here, I have been pretty exclusively concentrating on research and have been in the bubble for a while.

[daesonesb]

No.
No. No. No.

You are considering law for all of the wrong reasons.

You do not go to law school because you could not get into a PhD, Masters, or MBA program. That is not the right reason.
You do not go to law school because you liked Law and Order and have romantic ideals of Justice. That is not the right reason.
You do not go to law school because you do not know what to do and want to be successful. That is the worst reason.

Your aptitude test showed that you were not ideally positioned for Law School. To someone applying to law school for the right reasons, I would said "Screw the test, do what you want and love".

But you do not fit into that category. You have never worked in a legal field and I am not sure what you are currently doing. You sound like you need some focus and you need a very clear goal. I'd like you to take some time to solidly consider Why Law? And write out a statement to yourself of why in the world you want to do this.

157 is good for a cold take. Plenty of people get to above a 170 from a 157 ish diagnostic.

[ajmanyjah]

No.
No. No. No.

You are considering law for all of the wrong reasons.

You do not go to law school because you could not get into a PhD, Masters, or MBA program. That is not the right reason.
You do not go to law school because you liked Law and Order and have romantic ideals of Justice. That is not the right reason.
You do not go to law school because you do not know what to do and want to be successful. That is the worst reason.

Your aptitude test showed that you were not ideally positioned for Law School. To someone applying to law school for the right reasons, I would said "Screw the test, do what you want and love".

But you do not fit into that category. You have never worked in a legal field and I am not sure what you are currently doing. You sound like you need some focus and you need a very clear goal. I'd like you to take some time to solidly consider Why Law? And write out a statement to yourself of why in the world you want to do this.

Not to be snarky, but I'm gonna go with taking a cold LSAT in the middle of my roommate's debate with his business partners and being interrupted by a phone interview and getting a 157, not bad.

And if you can practice and test higher on the LSATs...it's not an aptitude test.

Thanks for the focus and ideals speech, though---and I watched more than a few episodes of Law and Order, I watched whole seasons---I am applying for the right reasons...I want to be a lawyer, and if you noticed I never asked "Is Law School right for me?"

I'm off to read the rest of this site.

Thanks to everyone who legit answered my questions, I would advise people to let this thread die, because people are going to over and over bring my my offhand (and utterly non-serious) Law and Order comment

[hsprophet]

I don't know why some people don't get the humor.

I'm going to law school because my wife said she'd leave me if I didn't make more money for her. Of course it was a total joke (that my wife came up with), but it's fun to tell people.

I understand how some people can give "advice" to people for wanting to study law for obviously wrong reasons. But it's a personal decision and nothing you've said stands out as some crazy motivation (like making big bucks).

Oh, and I'm also going to law school because the John Grisham movies are facinating (don't have time to read the books, they are way too thick).