Medians...

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tipler4213
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Medians...

Postby tipler4213 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:40 pm

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Last edited by tipler4213 on Thu May 17, 2012 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bankruptedcasino
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Re: Medians...

Postby bankruptedcasino » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:45 pm

While this isn't true for most schools, your LSAT weighs in a lot more than your UGPA. Sometimes it's 75% of your index score.

Reverse splitters (high GPA, low LSAT) have less to worry about the closer their GPA is to 4.0.

kmap
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Re: Medians...

Postby kmap » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:51 pm

Nobody on TLS seems to get that these statistics make sense in the aggregate but not on an individual basis, i.e., "50% of the people admitted to x school are above y LSAT score" doesn't mean that if you have y LSAT score you personally have a 50% chance of getting in. A multitude of factors will play a role in the case of any individual (particularly for splitters) and it's not equivalent to a coin flip.

tipler4213
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Re: Medians...

Postby tipler4213 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:09 pm

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Last edited by tipler4213 on Thu May 17, 2012 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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balzern
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Re: Medians...

Postby balzern » Fri Jul 02, 2010 2:33 pm

I would like to learn more about this topic too.

tipler4213
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Re: Medians...

Postby tipler4213 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 pm

Anyone got some insight for us?

KennyG
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Re: Medians...

Postby KennyG » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:37 pm

tipler4213 wrote:I understand this will vary from school to school, but how about this question instead. If you are say 2 points below the median for LSAT, how much above the median for GPA do you need to be to cancel it out?



I think this is going to vary a lot from school to school. Check out LSN to get a better idea on specific schools.

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Na_Swatch
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Re: Medians...

Postby Na_Swatch » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:44 pm

The problem is there isn't a generic response for this question... once you start asking things like "I have a 25th GPA and a slightly above median LSAT" it becomes much more complicated.

For instance, some schools weight LSAT more, others have a GPA emphasis, some schools have LSAT "walls" that they require most applicants to be at, etc. etc.

If you guys post specific data about your scores/ grades/ schools your applying to then I or other TLS people can give you a better guess as to your chances.

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kaydish21
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Re: Medians...

Postby kaydish21 » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:46 pm

The above poster has it right, each school values GPA/LSAT somewhat differently. You used to be able to get the exact formula on LSAC site, but they stopped posting it a few years ago. In general LSAT weighs about 55%-65% and GPA about 35%-45%. Berkeley is one of the few schools that weighs GPA more than LSAT. In US News rankings there is a greater value placed on median LSAT than GPA which is why schools accordingly favor splitters more than reverse splitters.

The advice for all splitters is to run a bunch of splitter searches here and you will find a ton of examples. There was an official splitter thread from this past cycle that a lot of people posted all their numbers and results in. Also apply to a wide range of schools and get your apps in early since splitter cycles are unpredictable and often result in mass waitlists.

sumus romani
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Re: Medians...

Postby sumus romani » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:46 pm

There just isn't much to say here. Law admissions is primarily, but not entirely, numbers-based. Schools fight hard to have the highest medians possible, since this is what they report to US News as a key part of their rankings.

As applicants apply to more and more schools, the schools must look more and more to who would come if admitted, etc. It is a cycle. But the cycle is still numbers-based.

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beach_terror
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Re: Medians...

Postby beach_terror » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:52 pm

I was substantially under both medians for the school I'll be attending. ~3 points below their LSAT median, and ~.3 below their GPA median. LSP said I was a flat out deny as well. I spent a lot of time on my personal statement though.

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Grizz
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Re: Medians...

Postby Grizz » Fri Jul 02, 2010 4:57 pm

beach_terror wrote:I was substantially under both medians for the school I'll be attending. ~3 points below their LSAT median, and ~.3 below their GPA median. LSP said I was a flat out deny as well. I spent a lot of time on my personal statement though.


Caveat - this is unlikely to happen for most anyone else reading this aside from URMs.

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beach_terror
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Re: Medians...

Postby beach_terror » Fri Jul 02, 2010 5:19 pm

rad law wrote:
beach_terror wrote:I was substantially under both medians for the school I'll be attending. ~3 points below their LSAT median, and ~.3 below their GPA median. LSP said I was a flat out deny as well. I spent a lot of time on my personal statement though.


Caveat - this is unlikely to happen for most anyone else reading this aside from URMs.


Definitely, but just wanted to let people know it still happens. So it's worth trying!

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Barbie
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Re: Medians...

Postby Barbie » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:31 pm

On the far right of this chart, it shows you what percentage each school places on GPA, as compared to LSAT. The most is like, low 30%, with some schools placing as low as 8-9% on GPA.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm

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vespertiliovir
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Re: Medians...

Postby vespertiliovir » Fri Jul 02, 2010 11:36 pm

Some (especially lower-ranked) schools actually list on their website the admissions index they use. You'd have to do a bit of digging, but if you could find it you could figure out how many GPA points corresponds to one LSAT point.

shock259
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Re: Medians...

Postby shock259 » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:45 am

darby girl wrote:On the far right of this chart, it shows you what percentage each school places on GPA, as compared to LSAT. The most is like, low 30%, with some schools placing as low as 8-9% on GPA.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm


Can anyone confirm the accuracy of these numbers? I'm surprised I haven't ever seen them before.

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Barbie
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Re: Medians...

Postby Barbie » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:42 am

shock259 wrote:
darby girl wrote:On the far right of this chart, it shows you what percentage each school places on GPA, as compared to LSAT. The most is like, low 30%, with some schools placing as low as 8-9% on GPA.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm


Can anyone confirm the accuracy of these numbers? I'm surprised I haven't ever seen them before.



The numbers are accurate, and exactly match the index offered by LSAC, but the far right column is this guy's having figured out the numbers to produce that percentage. The LSAC provided index does not have that column.

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Knock
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Re: Medians...

Postby Knock » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:36 am

Barbie wrote:
shock259 wrote:
darby girl wrote:On the far right of this chart, it shows you what percentage each school places on GPA, as compared to LSAT. The most is like, low 30%, with some schools placing as low as 8-9% on GPA.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm


Can anyone confirm the accuracy of these numbers? I'm surprised I haven't ever seen them before.



The numbers are accurate, and exactly match the index offered by LSAC, but the far right column is this guy's having figured out the numbers to produce that percentage. The LSAC provided index does not have that column.


So according to that, most schools value GPA as worth only ~20-30% of what the LSAT is worth?

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im_blue
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Re: Medians...

Postby im_blue » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:19 am

Knockglock wrote:
Barbie wrote:
shock259 wrote:
darby girl wrote:On the far right of this chart, it shows you what percentage each school places on GPA, as compared to LSAT. The most is like, low 30%, with some schools placing as low as 8-9% on GPA.

http://www.uiowa.edu/~030116/prelaw/lawschools09.htm


Can anyone confirm the accuracy of these numbers? I'm surprised I haven't ever seen them before.



The numbers are accurate, and exactly match the index offered by LSAC, but the far right column is this guy's having figured out the numbers to produce that percentage. The LSAC provided index does not have that column.


So according to that, most schools value GPA as worth only ~20-30% of what the LSAT is worth?

That's correct. A rough rule of thumb for most schools is that 1 LSAT point = 0.1 GPA, which translates into the LSAT being worth 180/(180+10*4.0) = 82%. Of course, the index number may not mean as much for certain applicants like splitters.

shock259
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Re: Medians...

Postby shock259 » Sun Jul 25, 2010 12:42 pm

I guess that bodes well for me and my target: at 75th LSAT, between 25th and median for GPA.




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