I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

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sternc
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I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby sternc » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:15 pm

So here's the deal, I am all but set on going to UT. However, it appears I may have the opportunity to go to Duke, starting in the Fall of 2011 (anyone who just got that wait-list update knows what I'm talking about). Which school would y'all recommend? I am from Texas and want to go into BigLaw. I've always thought I would return to Texas, but I went to school in the South and would be just as happy remaining there, maybe more happy. I have Texas in-state plus $. At Duke I would have no financial aid (I assume). Thankfully, I'm in a position where debt will not be a problem, but the money that is leftover from law school will be mine. So the difference would be graduating with an extra 60-70k and a JD from Texas or basically graduating with no money in my bank account, no debt either, and a JD from Duke. Any thoughts? I would end up working this year and maybe doing a bit of traveling. Do you think the finances/year off are reasons to definitely go to Texas? Or is the national portability and BigLaw placement that much better at Duke and worth the wait/$$$?

I posted this earlier on the wrong board and did not want it to get buried.

aulburch
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby aulburch » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:56 pm

Texas...I wouldn't bet too much on Dean Hoye or Mark Hill being there past the next school year. They've overenrolled the class the last three years in a row.

Besides, you're giving up quite a bit to wait for a year, for a school that isn't ranked significantly higher.

Do what your gut says.

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maxm2764
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby maxm2764 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:20 pm

aulburch wrote:Texas


TITCR

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sundance95
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby sundance95 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:23 pm

sternc wrote:I am from Texas and want to go into BigLaw...I have Texas in-state plus $. At Duke I would have no financial aid (I assume). Thankfully, I'm in a position where debt will not be a problem, but the money that is leftover from law school will be mine.


Texas. Money that's left over is still yours, buy a Jag when you graduate.

Edit: I actually wouldn't recommend a Jag but you see what I'm getting at.

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dominkay
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby dominkay » Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:26 pm

Texas.

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nealric
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby nealric » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:13 pm

Duke for sure:

As someone who is from Texas with a lot of family and friends working therein, I can vouch that Texas biglaw's supposed preference for UT over out of state top schools is vastly overblown.

Bottom line: Duke buys you a grade cushion for biglaw. You might not need that cushion. But if you do, it will be a lifesaver.

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Bosque
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Bosque » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:08 pm

I'd say Duke. However, if you stay with Texas it won't be the worst decision you ever make.

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acadec
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby acadec » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:47 pm

Duke for BigLaw options outside Texas.

CanadianWolf
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:30 pm

If you want to live & practice in Texas, then go to Texas. If you want to live & work outside of the Southwest, then Duke is the better option.
Not sure if this is still accurate, but in the very recent past Duke encouraged interested law students to get dual graduate degrees. Also Duke Law School, although not as dominant as that at Northwestern, had a culture that encouraged co-operation among law students.

Pearalegal
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:38 pm

Um...we're discussing this like we know OP will get into Duke. We don't. The option is Texas vs. a gamble for Duke. What would you feel if you gave up starting Texas this year and didn't get into Duke? Have any solid job prospects? Will this year off be beneficial to you in any other way? Did you originally toy with the idea of taking a year off anyways?

CanadianWolf
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:43 pm

It is not clear whether or not the OP is assured of a spot in Duke's next class.

Pearalegal
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:45 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:It is not clear whether or not the OP is assured of a spot in Duke's next class.


Well, if he is, thats a different story but the wording..."may have an opportunity" makes it pretty clear to me that Duke isn't 100%.

CanadianWolf
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:48 pm

The same wording makes it pretty ambiguous to me especially since it refers to a fairly specific start date next year which runs counter to the idea of one remaining on a waitlist and, instead, suggests deferred admission.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Pearalegal
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:49 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:The same wording makes it pretty ambiguous to me.


But then does that ambiguity indicate that the OP doesn't know? I don't really know why he'd leave us in the dark about that rather important fact.

1000bmr
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby 1000bmr » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:53 pm

what's a year of your life worth? you've only got 50 or 60 more of them left if you're lucky. do you really want to put all your plans on hold to go to a school ranked 5 spots higher (or whatever it is)? go to UT, save some money, and have essentially the same opportunities but one year sooner.

dubsky
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby dubsky » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:54 pm

OP has the option to send in an ED binding application that Duke will respond to by mid July. Therefore, he wouldn't be giving up UT for a "gamble". If he gets turned down, he goes to UT. If he gets in, he goes to Duke. The QUESTION he's asking is ; should he convert his waitlist position to an ED app ?

Pearalegal
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:56 pm

dubsky wrote:OP has the option to send in an ED binding application that Duke will respond to by mid July. Therefore, he wouldn't be giving up UT for a "gamble". If he gets turned down, he goes to UT. If he gets in, he goes to Duke. The QUESTION he's asking is ; should he convert his waitlist position to an ED app ?


....how is that still not gambling a year for the chance at Duke?

And also, thanks for clarifying what this Duke letter meant. Was confuuuzed.

For what its worth, if OP is straight out of ugrad, I think the answer is ALWAYS to take the year off.

dk8
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby dk8 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:57 pm

Pearalegal wrote:Um...we're discussing this like we know OP will get into Duke. We don't. The option is Texas vs. a gamble for Duke. What would you feel if you gave up starting Texas this year and didn't get into Duke? Have any solid job prospects? Will this year off be beneficial to you in any other way? Did you originally toy with the idea of taking a year off anyways?


The wording doesn't guarantee anything, but I don't think they'd be doing this unless they were willing to accept a substantial amount of the PR people that took this option.

Also, since he would get a decision by July 16, he would lose nothing. If they didn't take him he could go to Texas.

If you can afford to wait a year I would take it.

dk8
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby dk8 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:02 pm

1000bmr wrote:what's a year of your life worth? you've only got 50 or 60 more of them left if you're lucky. do you really want to put all your plans on hold to go to a school ranked 5 spots higher (or whatever it is)? go to UT, save some money, and have essentially the same opportunities but one year sooner.


The number of ranking spots is irrelevant. Duke places better and gives far more mobility.

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Bosque
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Bosque » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:02 pm

We were discussing what this offer meant earlier in another thread. I think the consensus we reached is that it sounds like an offer to be considered for next years class, not another application. All he will have to do is fill out a short form. So we don't think he needs to withdraw his UT application to take advantage of the Duke offer. If the OP signs the paper, he has two possible outcomes:

1. Duke lets him in and he has to enroll there in 2011.

2. Duke rejects him and he goes to UT in the fall.

So, if he would go to Duke sticker if they let him in I see no point in not signing the paper. Worst case scenario he is right back where he started. Only reason to not sign the paper is if he would rather go to UT even if Duke lets him in.

Pearalegal
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:04 pm

dk8 wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:Um...we're discussing this like we know OP will get into Duke. We don't. The option is Texas vs. a gamble for Duke. What would you feel if you gave up starting Texas this year and didn't get into Duke? Have any solid job prospects? Will this year off be beneficial to you in any other way? Did you originally toy with the idea of taking a year off anyways?


The wording doesn't guarantee anything, but I don't think they'd be doing this unless they were willing to accept a substantial amount of the PR people that took this option.

Also, since he would get a decision by July 16, he would lose nothing. If they didn't take him he could go to Texas.

If you can afford to wait a year I would take it.


Ah, totally didn't read until the middle of July. However, as a future UT student...after knowing this whole July business, I'm worried about your letter of intent.

Unless its a straight up waitlist, you're supposed to withdraw. Obviously you haven't done anything wrong at this point, but I'm pretty sure if you go to an ED app at Duke, you'd be violating the letter of intent. That might cause problems, and ultimately cause you to lose your spot at UT (and since other schools generally frown upon breaking the rules at other schools, maybe mess up Texas).

You might have to withdraw from Texas before going after this. I'd call UT. I think its better to be safe than sorry. For all non-UT people, we recently signed a letter saying that we have cut all obligations to other schools (though they made clear waitlists weren't the same thing). The Duke program is obviously a grey area, but not something I'd like to take a chance on messing up over.
Last edited by Pearalegal on Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dk8
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby dk8 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:05 pm

Bosque wrote:We were discussing what this offer meant earlier in another thread. I think the consensus we reached is that it sounds like an offer to be considered for next years class, not another application. All he will have to do is fill out a short form. So we don't think he needs to withdraw his UT application to take advantage of the Duke offer. If the OP signs the paper, he has two possible outcomes:

1. Duke lets him in and he has to enroll there in 2011.

2. Duke rejects him and he goes to UT in the fall.

So, if he would go to Duke sticker if they let him in I see no point in not signing the paper. Worst case scenario he is right back where he started. Only reason to not sign the paper is if he would rather go to UT even if Duke lets him in.


Correct. They used the phrase "convert your current application into a binding Early decision application"

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Bosque
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Bosque » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:05 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
dubsky wrote:OP has the option to send in an ED binding application that Duke will respond to by mid July. Therefore, he wouldn't be giving up UT for a "gamble". If he gets turned down, he goes to UT. If he gets in, he goes to Duke. The QUESTION he's asking is ; should he convert his waitlist position to an ED app ?


....how is that still not gambling a year for the chance at Duke?

And also, thanks for clarifying what this Duke letter meant. Was confuuuzed.

For what its worth, if OP is straight out of ugrad, I think the answer is ALWAYS to take the year off.


I think "Gambling" is the wrong word. More "Bartering" a year.

Pearalegal
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Pearalegal » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:07 pm

Bosque wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:
dubsky wrote:OP has the option to send in an ED binding application that Duke will respond to by mid July. Therefore, he wouldn't be giving up UT for a "gamble". If he gets turned down, he goes to UT. If he gets in, he goes to Duke. The QUESTION he's asking is ; should he convert his waitlist position to an ED app ?


....how is that still not gambling a year for the chance at Duke?

And also, thanks for clarifying what this Duke letter meant. Was confuuuzed.

For what its worth, if OP is straight out of ugrad, I think the answer is ALWAYS to take the year off.


I think "Gambling" is the wrong word. More "Bartering" a year.


Haha, apologies. I had no idea what the program meant. I'm still worried about his letter of intent though.

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Bosque
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Re: I need some serious help... Texas vs. Duke

Postby Bosque » Wed Jun 30, 2010 7:09 pm

Pearalegal wrote:
dk8 wrote:
Pearalegal wrote:Um...we're discussing this like we know OP will get into Duke. We don't. The option is Texas vs. a gamble for Duke. What would you feel if you gave up starting Texas this year and didn't get into Duke? Have any solid job prospects? Will this year off be beneficial to you in any other way? Did you originally toy with the idea of taking a year off anyways?


The wording doesn't guarantee anything, but I don't think they'd be doing this unless they were willing to accept a substantial amount of the PR people that took this option.

Also, since he would get a decision by July 16, he would lose nothing. If they didn't take him he could go to Texas.

If you can afford to wait a year I would take it.


Ah, totally didn't read until the middle of July. However, as a future UT student...after knowing this whole July business, I'm worried about your letter of intent.

Unless its a straight up waitlist, you're supposed to withdraw. Obviously you haven't done anything wrong at this point, but I'm pretty sure if you go to an ED app at Duke, you'd be violating the letter of intent. That might cause problems, and ultimately cause you to lose your spot at UT (and since other schools generally frown upon breaking the rules at other schools, maybe mess up Texas).

You might have to withdraw from Texas before going after this. I'd call UT.


I'd call Duke first. If you are calling up UT, chances are you are going to have to carefully explain EXACTLY what it is Duke is offering. Duke has probably been handling a lot of questions about this and probably has the language worked out rather particularly to avoid problems in this vein. If you call Duke first I wager there is a lot lower chance UT will come back with a "withdraw" response.




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