Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

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Favor2010
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Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Favor2010 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:48 pm

I have a friend that has applied to law schools in all tiers for the last few yrs (received only rejections). Though cost does not seem to be an issue for the individual, he/she does have to stay in a specific region (schools like Cooley are not an option). Applicant has been aggressively targeting a particular T30 despite being WAY below means for GPA/LSAT. Highest LSAT in the upper 140's (taken multiple times..with improvement each time), and LSDAS GPA well below 2.5. Is there any hope for this student? Friend has asked for my advice, but I really do not know what to say. Of course a higher LSAT may help...but what score would this person need for a decent school in the southeast to even take the app into consideration? Applicant is a non-traditional/URM with great work experience. Anyone out there more optimistic than I am about this person's admissions chances?
Last edited by Favor2010 on Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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merichard87
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby merichard87 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:53 pm

How does one get a 2.1 AND a 148?

Alas, GPA is set in stone. All your friend can do is retake the lsat. I suggest taking a year or 2 to study. They are going to need a 160 at least and a damn good addendum.

am060459
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby am060459 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:55 pm

merichard87 wrote:How does one get a 2.1 AND a 148?

Alas, GPA is set in stone. All your friend can do is retake the lsat. I suggest taking a year or 2 to study. They are going to need a 160 at least and a damn good addendum.


i beg to differ. if u have to study for the LSAT for a year or two then it might not be a good career choice. im all for optimism but the reality check will hurt.

masters ftw?

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jackalope11
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby jackalope11 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 4:57 pm

That 2.1 GPA is a killer...

Sorry to be so pessimistic, I think others out there may confirm the fact that I am usually an optimist, but that is just the truth. The URM status is likely to give some boost, but the non-trad isn't going to help much...

I would say that possibly a T4 part-time might be a realistic option, with hopes of scoring high and transferring, though I do not know much about that process.

Please do not take this next question as a negative conjecture about your friend: But, what has convinced them that law school or law practice is right for them? It would appear that they have performed below average both in school and on the admissions test for the study of the law... Sometimes, we just aren't cut out for certain paths, no matter how much we might wish that we were.

Again, I apologize if this tone sounds negative...

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kalvano
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby kalvano » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:00 pm

Law school isn't for everyone.

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merichard87
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby merichard87 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:05 pm

I agree that law school isn't for everyone and your friend's name should definitely be everyone but I am an optimist so I gave my best advice.

Favor2010
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Favor2010 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:07 pm

I am usually fairly optimistic, as well. I am having a hard time finding my optimism here. Applicant has experience in the legal field and thinks law is the next step. This year, we went through the app process together, and my friend only recently disclosed scores to me. Once that happened, the rejections made sense, and I did not really have much advice to offer other than retake or choose another career path. I was not bold enough to suggest the latter.
jackalope11 wrote:That GPA is a killer...

Sorry to be so pessimistic, I think others out there may confirm the fact that I am usually an optimist, but that is just the truth. The URM status is likely to give some boost, but the non-trad isn't going to help much...

I would say that possibly a T4 part-time might be a realistic option, with hopes of scoring high and transferring, though I do not know much about that process.

Please do not take this next question as a negative conjecture about your friend: But, what has convinced them that law school or law practice is right for them? It would appear that they have performed below average both in school and on the admissions test for the study of the law... Sometimes, we just aren't cut out for certain paths, no matter how much we might wish that we were.

Again, I apologize if this tone sounds negative...
Last edited by Favor2010 on Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Grizz
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Grizz » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:21 pm

Find an another life path.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby acrossthelake » Tue Jun 29, 2010 5:28 pm

rad law wrote:Find an another life path.


I usually don't like to discourage people. This is one of those futile moments though.

ikari_ningen
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby ikari_ningen » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:04 pm

Does your LSAT score not count after five years? When was the last time your friend took the test, three years ago?

It might benefit your friend to study the LSAT for two years on the test if he/she is that dead set on going to law school, but even then that GPA isn't going to make admission to any school easy.

After applying for three years straight and getting rejected from schools in all different tiers though, I'd just give up and find something else to do.
Last edited by ikari_ningen on Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Bildungsroman » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:16 pm

Friend is clearly not cut out for Hamburger University, let alone law school.

Boilernation11
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Boilernation11 » Tue Jun 29, 2010 10:56 pm

Things do not look good for your friend. Can't do anything about the GPA at this point, an above average LSAT score would be best, 160+. Also maybe apply to schools that give you the option of applying with emphasis more on experience and less on LSAT/GPA like Rutgers-Newark. But they have to get that LSAT score up!

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TommyK
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby TommyK » Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:14 pm

While the advice to choose another career aside from lawyer may be solid advice, that's not the problem for which you've come here seeking advice.

If cost is no object, I would suggest your friend get a job that shows some of the things that law schools are looking for. While employed, have him take a test prep class (worth dropping $1k if it can raise his score 10 points). If he's able to score in the high 150's, I bet he'll be competitive at some low-tier programs even with a low gpa.

I think after he's been out of school for a while, he'll be able to make an argument that the lsat score is more representative of his potential than his several year old gpa. Also, a lot of schools will take a low gpa if it helps boost up their median LSAT.

I agree with most of the other folks - law school might not be your friend, but who are we to shit on somebody's dream, regardless of how unwise it may be? So good luck to you, and good luck to your friend. I hope you guys find happiness in whatever vocation you choose.

Just my $.02

TK

buccanic
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby buccanic » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:02 am

2.1 and 148 I don't even think would cut it for Cooley Law in Michigan. I'd say law school isn't in his future, but I hate to be so discouraging.

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vespertiliovir
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby vespertiliovir » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:12 am

Image

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zeth006
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby zeth006 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:18 am

vespertiliovir wrote:Image


Tempted to think so too.

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savagedm
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby savagedm » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:29 am

kalvano wrote:Law school isn't for everyone.

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mallard
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby mallard » Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:30 am

My advice is not to think about law school ever again.

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JustDude
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby JustDude » Wed Jun 30, 2010 5:17 am

mallard wrote:My advice is not to think about law school ever again.


elitist douche


OP follow your dreams

Favor2010
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Favor2010 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 12:48 pm

Thanks. I will be following my dreams this fall when I start my 1L year. I am just trying to help a friend reach his/hers. I do not completely agree that this person needs to give up hope. I do think they need a heavy dose of reality. They have applied 3 yrs in a row with extremely sub-par numbers. I, wholeheartedly, think they should not reapply until their credentials are more solid. Someone else mentioned..get some work experience. I am in my early 30's. The applicant in question is quite a few years older than me, and has worked in the legal field for many years. So I am not sure if more work experience is even needed. I was thinking a graduate degree in another area of interest with a 3.5+ GPA may prove helpful. It would at least show that he/she has the capacity for graduate work. If this person combines that with a great prep course and achieve 160+ LSAT, along with a great addendum, I think they could have a fighting chance somewhere reputable. But I really dont' know. I guess I really don't know how to gently say stop applying to programs until you improve your application without offending this person in some way.

JustDude wrote:
mallard wrote:My advice is not to think about law school ever again.


elitist douche


OP follow your dreams

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Bildungsroman
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Bildungsroman » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:03 pm

Favor2010 wrote:Thanks. I will be following my dreams this fall when I start my 1L year. I am just trying to help a friend reach his/hers. I do not completely agree that this person needs to give up hope. I do think they need a heavy dose of reality. They have applied 3 yrs in a row with extremely sub-par numbers. I, wholeheartedly, think they should not reapply until their credentials are more solid. Someone else mentioned..get some work experience. I am in my early 30's. The applicant in question is quite a few years older than me, and has worked in the legal field for many years. So I am not sure if more work experience is even needed. I was thinking a graduate degree in another area of interest with a 3.5+ GPA may prove helpful. It would at least show that he/she has the capacity for graduate work. If this person combines that with a great prep course and achieve 160+ LSAT, along with a great addendum, I think they could have a fighting chance somewhere reputable. But I really dont' know. I guess I really don't know how to gently say stop applying to programs until you improve your application without offending this person in some way.


Graduate school GPA is not a real factor in law school admissions because:
1. Graduate GPAs are notoriously inflated.
and
2. Law schools don't report graduate GPAs to USNWR for purposes of ranking.

cubswin
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby cubswin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:10 pm

Favor2010 wrote:Highest LSAT is 148 (3rd test..with improvement each time), and LSDAS GPA around 2.1 Is there any hope for this student? Friend has asked for my advice, but I really do not know what to say. Of course a higher LSAT may help...but what score would this person need for a decent school in the southeast to even take the app into consideration? Applicant is a non-traditional/URM with great work experience. Anyone out there more optimistic than I am about this person's admissions chances?


Advice? Don't go to law school. With those numbers, any school that accepts him/her is stealing his/her money. Not only would whatever school this person gets into provide shitty job prospects, what are the odds a person with those academic credentials will actually finish law school?

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KingJames6
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby KingJames6 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:11 pm

ah the classic "my friend (I) has (have) this problem, can you help him (me)??"

cubswin
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby cubswin » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:13 pm

KingJames6 wrote:ah the classic "my friend (I) has (have) this problem, can you help him (me)??"


A quick scan of OP's previous posts makes your theory look incorrect.

Favor2010
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Re: Any advice for a friend with low GPA/LSAT

Postby Favor2010 » Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:36 pm

Cute...but, this is not the case King James. It doesn't really matter, though! Even if the individual was me, would you have any advice to offer?
Thanks everyone for your responses (positive or negative). My friend always wants to talk about law school, and I do not know what else to say to him/her at this point. Maybe in time, this issue will resolve itself. The person in question will surprise us all and knock out a 170 LSAT, he/she will realize I have no additional advice to offer, or maybe he/she will find another dream. Best of luck to each of you moving forward!! Thanks again. It has been helpful to discuss this with fellow TLSers.
KingJames6 wrote:ah the classic "my friend (I) has (have) this problem, can you help him (me)??"
Last edited by Favor2010 on Wed Jun 30, 2010 3:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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