I regret having gone to law school

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Miracle
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Miracle » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:34 pm

verdandi wrote:Though I hesitate to wade into this thread, I was wondering if I could ask the OP something:

Do you want to be a lawyer?

All this advice in this thread is very useful/easy to take advantage of if you love the law and want to be a lawyer. I could be reading between the lines too much but it sure sounded like from your original post that you don't really want to be a lawyer. If you love the law, what people here are calling "networking" is really very easy since its what you already want to do: talk to other lawyers, participate in law associations, and hone your craft. If you don't love the law, "networking" will be like pulling teeth.

I could be very wrong about this, but I believe that if you truly WANT to be a lawyer and pratice the law because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else with your life, then by all means go to law school even if the best school you can get into is a "TTT" school. If you don't want to be a lawyer or hate law, then even going to Yale won't get you hired: interviewers can smell apathy from a mile away.



Great posts! Great points!

Its funny how curtain people think.

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mallard
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby mallard » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:35 pm

Miracle wrote:
verdandi wrote:Though I hesitate to wade into this thread, I was wondering if I could ask the OP something:

Do you want to be a lawyer?

All this advice in this thread is very useful/easy to take advantage of if you love the law and want to be a lawyer. I could be reading between the lines too much but it sure sounded like from your original post that you don't really want to be a lawyer. If you love the law, what people here are calling "networking" is really very easy since its what you already want to do: talk to other lawyers, participate in law associations, and hone your craft. If you don't love the law, "networking" will be like pulling teeth.

I could be very wrong about this, but I believe that if you truly WANT to be a lawyer and pratice the law because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else with your life, then by all means go to law school even if the best school you can get into is a "TTT" school. If you don't want to be a lawyer or hate law, then even going to Yale won't get you hired: interviewers can smell apathy from a mile away.



Great posts! Great points!

Its funny how curtain people think.


All of those points were absolutely wrong. The idea that it's obvious who loves and doesn't love law from an interview and that that will be a significant factor in hiring is absurd and fucking wrong as shit.

Miracle
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Miracle » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:46 pm

mallard wrote:
Miracle wrote:
verdandi wrote:Though I hesitate to wade into this thread, I was wondering if I could ask the OP something:

Do you want to be a lawyer?

All this advice in this thread is very useful/easy to take advantage of if you love the law and want to be a lawyer. I could be reading between the lines too much but it sure sounded like from your original post that you don't really want to be a lawyer. If you love the law, what people here are calling "networking" is really very easy since its what you already want to do: talk to other lawyers, participate in law associations, and hone your craft. If you don't love the law, "networking" will be like pulling teeth.

I could be very wrong about this, but I believe that if you truly WANT to be a lawyer and pratice the law because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else with your life, then by all means go to law school even if the best school you can get into is a "TTT" school. If you don't want to be a lawyer or hate law, then even going to Yale won't get you hired: interviewers can smell apathy from a mile away.



Great posts! Great points!

Its funny how curtain people think.




All of those points were absolutely wrong. The idea that it's obvious who loves and doesn't love law from an interview and that that will be a significant factor in hiring is absurd and fucking wrong as shit.


Maybe in your view. The truth is not everyone that goes to law school will be a lawyer. End of the story, so to sit here and cry about not being able to get a job is pointless. Not every med student that went to med school will become a successful doctor. Nothing is guaranteed.
Last edited by Miracle on Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:47 pm

verdandi wrote: If you love the law, what people here are calling "networking" is really very easy since its what you already want to do: talk to other lawyers, participate in law associations, and hone your craft. If you don't love the law, "networking" will be like pulling teeth.



This. "Netowrking" as some big neblus overarching concenpt is what lawyers do, its is the pratice of law. Its how you get biz, clients, get deals done, knowing people is how the law works. Knowing the other sides lawyer, his habits, the judge, the clerk, the cleints. That is what lawyers do, the legal stuff is all secondary in the real wrold, its your product but how your pratice it.

True story a lawyer I know had a public interest case against a huge firm representing a mega corporation in federal court. He knew someone who used to clerk for the judge. He asked this clerk what the judge was like, was he pro business? He wanted to get an idea of how to craft his brief to best make his point so that the judge would see the merits of his argument. She said he was a fair minded judge who would consider all the merits the case. As she was walking out of the room she just happened to mention he was a big fishermen. My lawyer friend's ears perked up. How do you know he's a fishermen? Because he has a giant fish on his wall behind his desk in his chambers. Ok thanks my friend said.

Turns out the case was about this mega corporation polluting a river that happened to be the spawning grounds for trout. trout, the pollution and its effect on sport fishing ended up being a big part of this lawyers brief. He won the case. Did that fact alone make the difference, of course not, but knowing the judge your going up before and what makes him tick means you can craft the law to be most favorable to how that judge thinks. This is what they do in USSC all the time, people make arguments aimed directly at certain justices. You can do that on the national level because they are so well covered, on the local level you need to know people who know people. You don't meet these people holed up in your office just like you don't meet these people holed up in the classroom.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:51 pm

mallard wrote:
Miracle wrote:
verdandi wrote:Though I hesitate to wade into this thread, I was wondering if I could ask the OP something:

Do you want to be a lawyer?

All this advice in this thread is very useful/easy to take advantage of if you love the law and want to be a lawyer. I could be reading between the lines too much but it sure sounded like from your original post that you don't really want to be a lawyer. If you love the law, what people here are calling "networking" is really very easy since its what you already want to do: talk to other lawyers, participate in law associations, and hone your craft. If you don't love the law, "networking" will be like pulling teeth.

I could be very wrong about this, but I believe that if you truly WANT to be a lawyer and pratice the law because you love it and can't imagine doing anything else with your life, then by all means go to law school even if the best school you can get into is a "TTT" school. If you don't want to be a lawyer or hate law, then even going to Yale won't get you hired: interviewers can smell apathy from a mile away.



Great posts! Great points!

Its funny how curtain people think.


All of those points were absolutely wrong. The idea that it's obvious who loves and doesn't love law from an interview and that that will be a significant factor in hiring is absurd and fucking wrong as shit.

Is it wrong of me not to feel sorry for a person who has only relied on others in making future decisions for themselves, and now finds themselves in an unenviable position?

If I am, I should probably go talk to my priest about my lack of empathy, but I can't. I became a full fledged atheist 2 years ago. :|

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mallard
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby mallard » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:52 pm

Oh, I don't particularly feel sorry for the OP. I just don't like it when people are wrong.

Miracle
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Miracle » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:53 pm

It's not like the whole class from Columbia, NYU, Michigan, Yale, G-town etc. is crying on TLS about not being able to find work. You never know what kind of an application this person that is crying on TLS submitted, and what his/her story is.

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:53 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:If I am, I should probably go talk to my priest about my lack of empathy, but I can't. I became a full fledged atheist 2 years ago. :|


Yea I tried to quit the church, but hanging around preiets is the only way I seem to be beale to get any action anymore.

09042014
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:54 pm

Matthies wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:If I am, I should probably go talk to my priest about my lack of empathy, but I can't. I became a full fledged atheist 2 years ago. :|


Yea I tried to quit the church, but hanging around preiets is the only way I seem to be beale to get any action anymore.


this + avatar = 175

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:54 pm

mallard wrote:Oh, I don't particularly feel sorry for the OP. I just don't like it when people are wrong.


This is why most of my clients are animals and not people

psychomohel
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby psychomohel » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:55 pm

I've read your advice in several threads now Matthies and I really like it. Thanks for posting.

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mallard
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby mallard » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:56 pm

Matthies wrote:
mallard wrote:Oh, I don't particularly feel sorry for the OP. I just don't like it when people are wrong.


This is why most of my clients are animals and not people


In the spring my 1L clinical represented a small mouse. It was a contract dispute - we had to argue that the offer of a cookie contained other implicit offers within it. Very tough case, but at least our client was a cute animal and not an ugly, horrible human.

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:57 pm

Matthies wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:If I am, I should probably go talk to my priest about my lack of empathy, but I can't. I became a full fledged atheist 2 years ago. :|


Yea I tried to quit the church, but hanging around preiets is the only way I seem to be beale to get any action anymore.

Fuck.... I was an alter boy for 6 years. I never go so much as a back rub. This level of fail on my part weighs heavily on my mind. :(

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D. H2Oman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 12:59 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:Fuck.... I was an alter boy for 6 years. I never go so much as a back rub. This level of fail on my part weighs heavily on my mind. :(


Dude, I've thought about this too man. WTF?! Was I not appealing enough? I'm thinking about suing the church over the emotional trauma of not being "touched".

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Mr. Matlock » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:00 pm

mallard wrote:
Matthies wrote:
mallard wrote:Oh, I don't particularly feel sorry for the OP. I just don't like it when people are wrong.


This is why most of my clients are animals and not people


In the spring my 1L clinical represented a small mouse. It was a contract dispute - we had to argue that the offer of a cookie contained other implicit offers within it. Very tough case, but at least our client was a cute animal and not an ugly, horrible human.

I JUST READ THAT CASE THE OTHER NIGHT!!!!!! That fucking mouse went on to demand milk, a nap, and a whole bunch of other shit. I say fuck the mouse!!

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:01 pm

mallard wrote:
Matthies wrote:
mallard wrote:Oh, I don't particularly feel sorry for the OP. I just don't like it when people are wrong.


This is why most of my clients are animals and not people


In the spring my 1L clinical represented a small mouse. It was a contract dispute - we had to argue that the offer of a cookie contained other implicit offers within it. Very tough case, but at least our client was a cute animal and not an ugly, horrible human.


I worked on the Prebble Jumping Mouse case. They now have more land to jump around on and spread the plauge then they did before. WIN!

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:02 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
mallard wrote:
Matthies wrote:
mallard wrote:Oh, I don't particularly feel sorry for the OP. I just don't like it when people are wrong.


This is why most of my clients are animals and not people


In the spring my 1L clinical represented a small mouse. It was a contract dispute - we had to argue that the offer of a cookie contained other implicit offers within it. Very tough case, but at least our client was a cute animal and not an ugly, horrible human.

I JUST READ THAT CASE THE OTHER NIGHT!!!!!! That fucking mouse went on to demand milk, a nap, and a whole bunch of other shit. I say fuck the mouse!!


he was T14 mouse, he deserved those things

nycparalegal
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby nycparalegal » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:06 pm

I feel bad for the OP because it's just shitty luck to be graduating into one of the worst economic environments since the 1930's.

After readying Krugman's recent article and looking at current economic indicators, it really seems like we are in a long and slow grind out of this economic mess.

owt
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby owt » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:19 pm

itsfine wrote: ultimately, whats the answer?? Go back to college, major in bio or chem, take the mcat, and become a doctor.


You probably won't believe me when I say this but doctor isn't the way to go either, they have their own mountain of shit to deal with. You know the gig is up when someone creates an mdunderground site.

The healthcare sector is grossly overrated in terms of job prospects.

nycparalegal
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby nycparalegal » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:27 pm

owt wrote:
itsfine wrote: ultimately, whats the answer?? Go back to college, major in bio or chem, take the mcat, and become a doctor.


You probably won't believe me when I say this but doctor isn't the way to go either, they have their own mountain of shit to deal with. You know the gig is up when someone creates an mdunderground site.

The healthcare sector is grossly overrated in terms of job prospects.


There is no great answer that fits all. Our entire economy is squeezed for jobs. The supply of workers overwhelm the demand.

Most of the brighter kids from my high school went into work as RN. I think only two maybe three kids from my grade actually became lawyers.

One went to Univeristy of Virgina Law, the other went to Syracuse, and the third one went to Brooklyn Law school.

I don't think there were any doctors in my grade though.

ze2151
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby ze2151 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:28 pm

D. H2Oman wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:Fuck.... I was an alter boy for 6 years. I never go so much as a back rub. This level of fail on my part weighs heavily on my mind. :(


Dude, I've thought about this too man. WTF?! Was I not appealing enough? I'm thinking about suing the church over the emotional trauma of not being "touched".


Already Been Done. See It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia-- Charlie Gets Molested.

Although in that case it was a gym teacher, not a priest; and the gym teacher was innocent (also a Mr. Belding cameo).

owt
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby owt » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:36 pm

nycparalegal wrote:
owt wrote:
itsfine wrote: ultimately, whats the answer?? Go back to college, major in bio or chem, take the mcat, and become a doctor.


You probably won't believe me when I say this but doctor isn't the way to go either, they have their own mountain of shit to deal with. You know the gig is up when someone creates an mdunderground site.

The healthcare sector is grossly overrated in terms of job prospects.


There is no great answer that fits all. Our entire economy is squeezed for jobs. The supply of workers overwhelm the demand.


This. I hear a lot of radio ads on the way to work about how hot the healthcare sector is. There are supposedly a ton of jobs out there that pay loads of money. Unfortunately, these ads come from the schools and training programs. I know several acquaintances from undergrad who completed nursing school and cannot find a job. Apparently there is a shortage of experienced nurses and a glut of new grads.

So yeah, everyone is hurting pretty bad.

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romothesavior
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 28, 2010 1:43 pm

rad law wrote:
romothesavior wrote:Matthies is perhaps the least douchey person I've met on TLS. He has helped me on multiple occasions and he is a generally friendly dude.

Not at all like those radlaw, miamiman, romothesavior, and camstant characters.


STFU GTFO


:cry:

B... b.... but.... But TLS is all I have!!!!

rundoxierun
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby rundoxierun » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:13 pm

I hate myself for replying to this.. and I know as a pre-0L people are going to jump on me, but from this thread it seems that most of you grossly misunderstand what networking is. As a high performing minority I have had the opportunity to be a part of professional diversity programs (legal and non-legal) that have allowed me to go a bit into the business world. From what I have seen and been told, networking means to keep in touch with/update the places you have worked or interned for, staying in touch with professors and professional friends and making sure to send at least a "thank you" to people you have been directly introduced through a professional acquaintance(i met you with *acquaintance* the other day and would like to say thanks for your time, etc.). This whole just meeting someone and talking your way into a job thing doesnt exist..

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nealric
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby nealric » Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:29 pm

If you don't want to be a lawyer or hate law, then even going to Yale won't get you hired: interviewers can smell apathy from a mile away.


Going to Yale will get you a biglaw job as long as you can at least do a reasonable job of feigning interest in the law. For all practical purposes, nobody graduates from Yale without a job unless they don't want one. What graduating from Yale won't do is make your career.

I hate myself for replying to this.. and I know as a pre-0L people are going to jump on me, but from this thread it seems that most of you grossly misunderstand what networking is. As a high performing minority I have had the opportunity to be a part of professional diversity programs (legal and non-legal) that have allowed me to go a bit into the business world. From what I have seen and been told, networking means to keep in touch with/update the places you have worked or interned for, staying in touch with professors and professional friends and making sure to send at least a "thank you" to people you have been directly introduced through a professional acquaintance(i met you with *acquaintance* the other day and would like to say thanks for your time, etc.). This whole just meeting someone and talking your way into a job thing doesnt exist..


This is right. Nobody is going to offer you a job because you talked a good game at a "networking" event. You have to build relationships over time.




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