I regret having gone to law school

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Tsispilos
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Tsispilos » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:47 am

Matthies wrote:
Tsispilos wrote:
Matthies wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:Man, some of the 0Ls and 1Ls on this thread really need to check their attitude.

Yes, it's possible that OP could do more to get a job, and it's possible that if he keeps plugging away he'll eventually find something. But there are simply far fewer legal jobs to be had than there were a few years ago, and there are simply not enough for every qualified grad. Yes, OP should reach out to alumni and attend events and all that. But it's a bit dickish to make assumptions that he must have poor interviewing skills or not be making an effort. If anything, you guys are all just engaging in "it can't happen to me" rationalization because you don't want to face that you're taking a risk.


Possibly, or maybe some folks on this thread won't give up so esialy when they are faced with finding a job. Finding a job is a fulltime job, and quiting that job or doing it halfassed will lead to poor results.



NOTE: Law school is also a full-time job. So is a summer associateship/internship. You don't have all the time in the world to just go around "networking." Not saying you don't have ANY time for that, but spending too much time "networking" may mean shitty law school and summer job performance, which can hurt the hard factors that many prospective employers will care about. There's just not an easy formula to follow that will get you employed.
Also, what makes you think OP gave up easily? It's totally possible right now for someone in his position to fight to the bitter death in the job-hunting arena and end up bitterly dead in that search.


And you know this how? Me, well let's see, I went to law school part-time at night, worked fulltime during the day and networked, was active in the local bar and a member of an Inn of court, along the way I also got an LLM/MLS and graduated 13th in my class and have job thanks to the contacts I made . So yea, it can be done.

As the OP giving up easily

I applied to everything in sight. I ended up without an offer. My case was far from unique. It was the ones who got satisfying jobs that are unique. I guess I can teach for BarBri or Kaplan or something now. It's just not worth it.


If he is the class of 2010 he has not even taken the bar yet, if class of 2009, its a not even a year since he got results.


I applaud you for being special. I'm sure your mom's proud.

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:51 am

Tsispilos wrote:
I applaud you for being special. I'm sure your mom's proud.


She is, and so was your mom.

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vanwinkle
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:52 am

I can't believe I read this whole thread. 7 pages and nothing that hasn't been said on TLS before.

Especially the bit about DF nailing chubby girls for fun and profit.

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pinkzeppelin
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby pinkzeppelin » Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:55 am

Props to the troll on this one. Page to post ratio is 7:3 so far, well done.

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romothesavior
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:01 am

I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:04 am

Image

miamiman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby miamiman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:06 am

I genuinely think Matthies offers outstanding advice, especially as it relates to networking. The problems I see are not flaws inherent to what he's saying but issues that are exogenous to law school right now.

1.) For one, I don't know specifically when you graduated but I infer it was pre ITE? Back then, I imagine (but cannot say for sure whether) individual displays of hustle and grit were met with greater reward than they are today. I would guess they were if only because there were actual jobs to give out. Small law and mid law are pretty brutal to break into now also.

2) two, hustle is important. It might, as you say, even qualify as a FT job. That said, I think you're unusual in your capacity to have juggled school, and work, and fulltime networking. Most students can't do that and, imho, its unfair to ask that they do.

Tsispilos
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Tsispilos » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:10 am

D. H2Oman wrote:Image

OP said "I had really shitty luck, despite being well-qualified for biglaw pre-2007"
bunch of people #1 said "condolences"
bunch of people #2 said "it's your own damn fault, loser"
people said #3 said to bunch of people #2 "wtf is wrong with you"
discussion of proper job search strategy ensued, with disagreement about how much time/effort job searching, law school, etc should take.

douchery abounded.

miamiman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby miamiman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:15 am

romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,

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lsat_fear
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby lsat_fear » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:15 am

The sky is falling.

HTH

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romothesavior
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:16 am

miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


T19 safe, ftw. I feel for those poor saps at Notre Dame and UIUC.

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TheTopBloke
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby TheTopBloke » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:17 am

I regret having ever read this thread.

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Grizz
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Grizz » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:17 am

miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


STLOUISSHITLAWSECURE?

miamiman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby miamiman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:19 am

rad law wrote:
miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


STLOUISSHITLAWSECURE?


St Lous BigLaw to 105!

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romothesavior
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:19 am

rad law wrote:
miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


STLOUISSHITLAWSECURE?


As MM would say, DLA Piper East St. Louis secure?

09042014
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:19 am

rad law wrote:
miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


STLOUISSHITLAWSECURE?


LOL I hear STLOUISSHITLAW doesn't hire Wustilites because they think they are too fancy.

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romothesavior
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:20 am

FYI, I hate you both.

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romothesavior
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:21 am

Desert Fox wrote:
rad law wrote:
miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


STLOUISSHITLAWSECURE?


LOL I hear STLOUISSHITLAW doesn't hire Wustilites because they think they are too fancy.


This is true. We have to flock to Alton and Collinsville to work as PDs or DUI lawyers.
Last edited by romothesavior on Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

dramaticpaws
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby dramaticpaws » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:21 am

What I learned ITT:

--ImageRemoved--


thank you, miamiman
Last edited by dramaticpaws on Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

miamiman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby miamiman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:21 am

romothesavior wrote:
rad law wrote:
miamiman wrote:
romothesavior wrote:I think I hate the gung-ho "Everything will be fine!" 0Ls far more than I hate the anti-law school people like the bloggers and Mtals. Personally, I fall somewhere in the middle (optimistic and driven, but tempered with a dose of reality), so I can understand where both groups are coming from. But the vitriolic anger that some of my fellow 0Ls exhibit whenever someone warns them of the perils of law school is really getting under my skin lately.

Everytime someone posts a horror story or relays the facts of ITE, the D-bags like Ty Webb come crawling out of their holes with guns a-blazing to attack the person. Well guess what? This type of story (whether flame or not) could be any of us in a few years. Get your heads out of your asses, people.


You're t19, tho,


STLOUISSHITLAWSECURE?


As MM would say, DLA Piper East St. Louis secure?

No, that DLA Piper job went to HYS ite. T14 students crowding out secondary markets, ftl.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby D. H2Oman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:23 am

miamiman wrote:No, that DLA Piper job went to HYS ite. T14 students crowding out secondary markets, ftl.


University of Texas trolling.

miamiman
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby miamiman » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:23 am

HEY IF YOU'RE GOING TO MEME MY QUOTE, PAY ME SOME ROYALTIES.

(Or at least cite it)

09042014
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:25 am

All I want is 200K a year, is that too much to ask?

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:25 am

miamiman wrote:I genuinely think Matthies offers outstanding advice, especially as it relates to networking. The problems I see are not flaws inherent to what he's saying but issues that are exogenous to law school right now.

1.) For one, I don't know specifically when you graduated but I infer it was pre ITE? Back then, I imagine (but cannot say for sure whether) individual displays of hustle and grit were met with greater reward than they are today. I would guess they were if only because there were actual jobs to give out. Small law and mid law are pretty brutal to break into now also.

2) two, hustle is important. It might, as you say, even qualify as a FT job. That said, I think you're unusual in your capacity to have juggled school, and work, and fulltime networking. Most students can't do that and, imho, its unfair to ask that they do.


I graduated in may 2009, at the worst point ITE for legal jobs from a T2 school.

No most people probably can't do what I did (or more realistically WON"t DO), and that's my point. For most people its far easier for them to get into law school than it is for them to get a job as or be good at being a lawyer. Some of this is the economy, but the economy hurts those most who did not have the skills, or will unwilling to learn the skills, to make it on their. You don't win at life the day you get that offer at big law. You have to keep that job for the next 30+ years if you want to be a lawyer. Folks real life is tough, it takes work, and you can only coast on your grades/diploma/schools name for so long, someday your gonna have to make it on your own.

Learn how to do that if you want to be a lawyer. Law school teaches you enough to get the JD and little else. You can either think that's enough to win at life then be shocked when its not, or take the steps you need to to learn what its takes to be a real lawyer while you have time to f it up a bit, in law school.

I get sick of these flames. Is it flame, most likely, because the OP says he can teach for Kaplan or barbri, which tells me has not take a bar prep class since students don't teach those, new grads don't, old law professors on video tape do.
Look, none of you would take advice from someone declaring their second bankruptcy on how to invest and manage your money. But law students seen drawn like months to a flame to websites, blogs, posts by people who could not find a legal job, especially those from top law schools.

Is that really where you should be turning to to get your advice on how to find a legal job? Maybe, just maybe, its better to seek out people who have gotten law jobs and know how to get legal jobs and follow their advice instead. But hey, that's not as easy as saying law schools are a scam, or its the ecoemony, or TTT grads fault. Lots of people have been successful finding jobs in this eceomony, they just don't have anyone to blame and not as much free time to complain about it on the internet, because well, they got jobs.

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Matthies
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Re: I regret having gone to law school

Postby Matthies » Mon Jun 28, 2010 11:25 am

Desert Fox wrote:All I want is 200K a year, is that too much to ask?


You will have it in debt in 3 years




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